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Author Topic: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies  (Read 10000 times)

Offline dieter

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"Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« on: February 05, 2014, 11:01:08 PM »
Hi everybody.
I'd like to discuss the possibilities in turning on and off a permanent magnet in general.


It turned out, the inability to do that is the main problem of many PMMs. So what we need is the "egg of columbus".


Let's list the options we're already aware:
(they all seem to require an external energy to do the "turn off" job, not sure about the close-loop deflection tho.)


-Electric Magnet impulse in opposite polarity.


-Heating up over Curie Temperature


-Mechanicly/dynamicly move away pm or iron.


-Mechanicly/dynamicly "shield" pm field


-close-loop pm with an external, deflecting pm or pm chain.


Any further ideas?
Thanks.

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"Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« on: February 05, 2014, 11:01:08 PM »

Offline dieter

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 06:45:15 AM »
Do I get this right, a stack of magnets, you mean like:
__/   the slash pm could be set free by __/____ ?
If so then that's about what I meant by close-loop deflection. The stack will lower the attraction of the slash pm, but is the the attraction of the stack the same if the slash is once removed, or will it be higher?

Offline dieter

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 09:44:19 AM »
Here' an other one: cooling the magnet dynamicly will result in a similar imbalance as we need it. By cooling I mean liquid nitrogen cool. So, eg. if the rotor would dip the pm into liquid nitrogen in the right moment, it may be much more pushed away than it was when it was getting closer to the stator pm before. hmmm... Would that heat up the nitrogen, Of course, but would we be back at zero energy gain? Well, by conventional physics, some flying insects are unable to fly, so...

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 09:44:19 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2014, 07:05:35 PM »
Also rather interesting is the behaviour of a thin needle to a PM. When it points to the pole (in the field direction) then it has a very low attraction. when you turn it, attraction increases. How about a block of needles.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 10:23:13 AM »
I have seen so very many attempts of this kind.  Many researchers have limited the scope of their vision by focusing all attempts at producing continuous motive force.  So much so, that it seems as if the way forward is purposely blocked to them due to singular vision.  Perhaps instead, seek not to block or "turn off" a magnetic field, but roll with it's nature and find merely novel ways of producing field "changes", such as well timed field compressions/decompressions.  One may leverage these in such a way as to isolate the magnet or ferrous material that is causing the perturbations, keeping it from getting caught in the fray.

Here is but one simple example:

Take a fairly large ring magnet, axially magnetized, and touch another magnet, also axially magnetized, at a right angle to it's periphery.  If one were to move that 'satellite' magnet in a circle, orbiting the larger ring magnet....how much friction is experienced? 

There is a 'Cheap Twist' to this simple experiment....


Somewhere.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 10:23:13 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 01:48:00 AM »
Ain't got no axially magnetized ring magnets here, so, what's this twist thing please?


Time compression? Move away? These methods all have the same problem: No matter how fast something is moved, Attraction Force remains the same. Inertia cannot cancel out the field. In fact, turning the field off is the point of interest.


We may consider Victor  Schauberg's theorem about the egg in a stream, that by its shape can neutralize the streams force and float on place, being a forceless, static object.


What if this or something similar works not only in water, but also in a magnetfield?
.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 04:57:48 AM »
Quote
Ain't got no axially magnetized ring magnets here, so, what's this twist thing please?


Talk is cheap.  But then, so are ring magnets. 




TS

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 04:57:48 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 10:05:55 AM »
Dieter, stored energy actuators have canceled permanent magnet flux for many, many years.  Before LASER printers took over the world better quality impact printers used stored energy actuators.  A permanent magnet would act as  the spring.  To release the spring and print a dot, a coil would be energized that canceled the flux from the permanent magnet.

Soldering irons of various different designs have also used the Curie temperature to regulate tip temperature.

The challenge is coming up with a way to turn off and restore the flux in a closed cycle that consumes less energy than can be harvested from the flux change.  No one seems to have found a way to do that.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 10:44:36 AM »
Quote
The challenge is coming up with a way to turn off and restore the flux in a closed cycle that consumes less energy than can be harvested from the flux change.


Momentary PM field impingement via counter field EM pulse is hardly "turning off" the field.  Call it "field change" or "field fluctuation", what have you, but it is a misleading generalization to imply that the PM field is being turned off and then restored. 

Examine the work of Howard Johnson at depth.  How many field fluctuations may one decipher in his examples?

And all at little to no cost....



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 10:44:36 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 11:20:12 AM »

Momentary PM field impingement via counter field EM pulse is hardly "turning off" the field.  Call it "field change" or "field fluctuation", what have you, but it is a misleading generalization to imply that the PM field is being turned off and then restored. 

Examine the work of Howard Johnson at depth.  How many field fluctuations may one decipher in his examples?

And all at little to no cost....
Techstuf, yes: In precise terms we are adding fields together.  We are manipulating the net flux that passes through a reluctance path we choose.  The same is true with multiple windings on a core whether or not they are layered or multi-filar.  The superimposed fields still appear as one net result to an observer.  The person paying the power bill finds out the difference between a source that "has been turned off" and one where the field has been canceled to some extent with an opposing field.


Offline CANGAS

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 12:41:33 PM »
Hi everybody.
I'd like to discuss the possibilities in turning on and off a permanent magnet in general.


It turned out, the inability to do that is the main problem of many PMMs. So what we need is the "egg of columbus".


Let's list the options we're already aware:
(they all seem to require an external energy to do the "turn off" job, not sure about the close-loop deflection tho.)


-Electric Magnet impulse in opposite polarity.


-Heating up over Curie Temperature


-Mechanicly/dynamicly move away pm or iron.


-Mechanicly/dynamicly "shield" pm field


-close-loop pm with an external, deflecting pm or pm chain.


Any further ideas?
Thanks.


Any further ideas?


Ruger Super Blackhawk, 6 magnum hollowpoints, dont initiate your experiment near unprotected bystanders, and, not where it could burn your house down.

Hey, Jack, I'm not joking. Dont start something you cant finish.

Let me splain. Suppose your invention really does work and, out there in Open Source, some angel picks it up and manufactures it and sells them like wildfire. And further suppose that a typical rich person manufacturer does not know used beans about Physics and simply perfectly follows your sketches on the back of an envelope. Your information must have some kind of an absolutely fail-safe escape mechanism, perhaps a brute force solution, to perfectly guarantee that your lovely device will never ever be responsible for injury, death, or property loss.   


CANGAS 12

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 12:41:33 PM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2014, 12:47:20 PM »
Of course, by "turning off a PM " I meant to neutralize, compensate or whatever is required in order to eg. reduce the attraction for a moment. And of course the goal is to do that in a free way. I don't say OU, because we may use any source of energy that can be tapped for free, eg. athmospheric pressure changes. Sunlight or Wind etc. is out of question or let's say is covered by the simple creation of an opposing e magnetfield listed initially.


I am more interested in micro-macro coupling of spins, also probably manifested in certain geometry, as in Schaubergs works about streams. Another sample for macro coupling of nuclear spins is the vortex of a kitchen sink, that is oriented to the earths axis. So quantum theory and special materials with extraordinary features like eg. high diamagnetism may be interesting. Graphite is highly diamagnetic and may cause the same kitchen sink vortex torque or spin in relation to gravity and magnetfield, where the magnetfield of a pm can be a catalysator, compared to the one of the earth. Well, interesting anyway.


When I tried to transmute  graphite powder to steel by shocking it with 30vdc, it became partially highly diamagnetic, so particles would jump away from a PM several Millimeters, not shure if the unshocked powder performs the same way.
 


BTW Cangas, did you by accident type in the wrong browser tab? Looks more like a Gunnie thing, or what was that bizzare thing about?  Looks like, some scientists discuss magnetical properties, when suddently somebody opens the door and yells "Pepper!". Please explain.

Offline CANGAS

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2014, 01:20:54 PM »
You really need an "explain"?

OU would not work like normal everyday reactions that are often damped before they can become runaway. Or very violent.

Do you really need it to be explained to you how a genuine OU activity will be beyond the purview of conventional Physics to predict and therefore  its safe containment cannot really be predicted?


CANGAS 13

Offline dieter

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 08:32:48 PM »
You mean it will run faster and faster and finally explode?
Well thanks for the warning, but this is known. Besides, I,d be glad to overcome the mechanical losses and if required it wouldn't be so hard to slow it down, certainly easier than to prevent a certain mass of plutonium to instantly melt down...


What I am trying to say is: I would like to see contributive postings, like ideas on how to "turn off a permanent magnet for a moment". Thanks for understanding. I would also like to discuss Graphite in this context, is there anybody with experience regarding Graphite, or pyrolytic graphite, and most promising in terms of diamagnetism: diamonds! And also the sink vortex phenomen, that is definitely a magnetical thing, due to earth axis alignement, (that it spins in the other direction on the southern hemisphere).


Anybody?

Offline lumen

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Re: "Turn Off" a PM... Strategies
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2014, 09:07:45 PM »
I was not going to mention this because I have not yet fully confirmed what was going on but I will try to explain it anyway.
 
Thinking that maybe a large thin magnet may shield some force of the interaction of two magnets by letting them get close before they exit the large magnet, I found the poles that attract seem to travel through the large magnet and thus the idea did not work.
 
I then thought that maybe two large magnets opposing each other could solve the problem, but still the attracting side to the large magnets seem to reach into the center of the two and repel the other approaching magnet.
 
So now the strange part:
 
In the emulator, I placed a very thin iron sheet between the large repelling magnets hoping to short the smaller two approaching magnets and let them ignore each other until they reached the mid point. Then I found this huge attracting force from that very thin sheet of .001" thick iron.
 
It seems the thin iron sheet directs the compressed field between the two large magnets with a huge force but the iron sheet itself is too thin to be but attracted with little force.
 
So at this time, it seems possible that one could direct a very large force by rotating that very thin iron sheet within the compressed field of two large magnets.
 
I've had this on a back burner for some time now so I thought this a good time to throw it out there.
 
 

 

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