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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: iacob alex on February 04, 2014, 11:44:17 AM

Title: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on February 04, 2014, 11:44:17 AM
.....is on the line or can be a manner of (re)thinking about a possible gravity powered engine , if we take into consideration an old Middle Ages (~1705) machine , at :     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_engine)
All we need to do is simply , to replace the "wprking push" : the steam with the gravity unbalance (torque difference).
As a matter of fact , we can rethink the constant beam as a variable (leverage) one.
      Al_ex
 
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on July 25, 2014, 03:02:26 AM
http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27349&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=c2d60d62a2aa22c780228a4900356b32 (http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27349&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=c2d60d62a2aa22c780228a4900356b32)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDmv59p1XkA&feature=youtu.be

Greetings, I am working on a similar project on a small scale. I plan to use a PMA to charge a cap and have a cam on the drive shaft trigger a discharge to a pair of electromagnets for a positive feedback to the system. I still have fabricate the beam and the unbalance flywheel. I can fabricate gears to use for shifting the weights on the flywheel. If you have any ideas that will help, I can fabricate it for testing. Thanks for posting your project.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on July 25, 2014, 09:40:10 AM
     Hi !
My domain is to play gravity with a lever ("beam").Take a look at  a net archive :
  www.geocities.ws/iacob_alex/Some_Drafts.html
Maybe...it can help your planned project.
     Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on July 25, 2014, 01:23:05 PM
http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27457&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=c2d60d62a2aa22c780228a4900356b32 (http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27457&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=c2d60d62a2aa22c780228a4900356b32)

http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27441&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=c2d60d62a2aa22c780228a4900356b32 (http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27441&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=c2d60d62a2aa22c780228a4900356b32)

Hi, you have a lot of interesting ideas. Thanks for posting. I completed the gear set to shift the weight on the flywheel. I plan to start with the most basic configuration. One weight will be stationary and the other weight will orbit in a eliptical path. Starting fabrication of the beam. Will post results after fabrication. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on July 26, 2014, 09:32:25 PM
Hi, I fabricated a quick frame to identify the problem areas. The biggest problem is I need the electromagnets to trigger at 0 and 180 degrees. The mechanism will only allow for triggering at at 90 and 270 degrees. Is there a mechanical configuration that I can use that will help or allow the trigger location to shift 90 degrees.  The electromagnet are pulsed with power so they are on for only a short time. . 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktM0sDQnmpo&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on July 28, 2014, 07:05:34 PM
   Hi  0017 !
What is the starting image/idea of your "Magnetic" build-up ?
In my opinion , everything should be  made as simple as possible  for the first test , because...the whole is simpler than the sum of its parts.
Anyway , I wish you success !
     Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on July 28, 2014, 08:07:35 PM
Hi, basically I am fabricating a large steam engine. I did some experiments with gravity assisted power last summer. From what I observed the projects I attempted needed additional power to work. So I was thinking maybe adding some kind of feedback would help. If it works, great. If not, I will have other options. PPMT maybe the solution, inverted electromagnet. But one step at a time.  Yes, simple is best but this is the only way that I think of to fabricate and add feedback to the system.   
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: MarkE on July 28, 2014, 09:23:20 PM
If you want to use weights to balance out energy over parts of a cycle, that can work.  The available energy and power densities are poor doing it that way.  You might have specific reasons why you would go that route  rather than using other means such as the venerable flywheel.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on July 29, 2014, 12:35:46 PM
.....is an elementary proposition. It has as a natural "datum" , a short movie , with an "unseen beam/lever " , if you take a look at :
       www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGBANgbRkws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGBANgbRkws)
It's a continuous self-rotating balance.But how a continuous self-rotating unbalance?
Try to play the barycenter on the same side of the fulcrum , as a variable/oscillatory leverage...
Maybe , regarding the topic of our forum , we must go again and again to nature for information...this time     as an image , the concise expresionistă of communication.
      Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: MarkE on July 29, 2014, 12:44:32 PM
Those observations won't be particularly useful for any machine of practical size on earth due to the huge mass disparity.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on July 29, 2014, 04:11:35 PM
  Hi !
If we intend to "copy" the natural model of a "perpetuum mobile" ,we are living on , we need to use two mathematical relațions ,only :
  - constant mass ratio M/m=81 (M-Earth vs.  m-Moon )
  - variable  arm   ratio  l/L  =....(l - Earth CoM  vs. L- Moon CoM  to the common CoM/fulcrum ).
If we intend to obtain , draw out some "useful" motion for "free" , we need to maintain in some manner the common CoG on the same side of the fulcrum/support.
Simply , we can change and play a well balanced self-running system into a controllable unbalanced one.
    Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on August 03, 2014, 04:40:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjOdNuXGrJM&feature=youtu.be


Hi, I changed the feedback to use a magnet piston. Promising results, proceeding with fabrication.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on August 03, 2014, 10:53:46 PM
.....is intended to be , as a starting image a simple mechanical arrangement , playing variable/oscillatory leverage (a beam/lever+two masses) , or a continuous unbalance on the same side of the fulcrum.
For the present moment ...I have in my mind no magnets.
If we play gravity unbalance , the size can be comparable to a steam / heat engine :
 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Grazebrook_Beam_Engine.JPG
...but much more simplified.
  Their common point is the beam / lever ,only.
        Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on August 23, 2014, 09:35:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZCrcyeGhRw&feature=youtu.be


Hi, I found this flywheel configuration on youtube. I just completed fabrication of the device for study. Converts reciprocating action to circular motion. It creates some interesting possibilities. Maybe use a pendulum to drive the device.   
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on August 24, 2014, 06:38:38 PM
   Hi 0017!
Not related with a "Beam gravity engine" , but with your test , take a look at :
 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x0bWcmxq704 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x0bWcmxq704)
Here you can see an erratic eccenter with three masses.
It's a replication of an old test (Felix Wurth...some details at   www.evert.de (http://www.evert.de). )
Take a look at : www.evert.de/eft377e.htm  ...playing two masses,like your model.
It can help us to make some understanding of inertial propulsion.
In my opinion a possible gravity  motor have a close resemblance with a future space drive propulsion.

    Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 24, 2014, 08:20:05 PM
Hi Burnit0017,

Nice build, it's similar to M. Kanarev's work.

Attached is a possible way to maybe extract power from it. The tricky part is getting power from the system the load will have to be evenly distributed between the two generators or they will unbalance each other.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on August 24, 2014, 09:59:21 PM
.....is the particularly proposed name of this topic.Here we can have three questions :
    -where is the beam or something alike?
    -how plays the gravity ?
    -what is the primary design/principle of this possible kind of engine ( converting gravity potential energy into mechanical motion) ?
  So , we are "beaming" ,following like a radio beam, as an aircraft ...to gravity or to variable rotational inertia ?
     All is basic mechanics , nothing more...in my opinion.
         Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on August 24, 2014, 10:47:07 PM
Hi, thank you to everyone for the added info. I plan to add a drive gear to the support arm to drive a PMA with a MPPT circuit at the output. I will use a double pendulum with electromagnets to oscillate the crank. I am fabricating the support frame now and will post results when available. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: telecom on August 25, 2014, 01:23:13 AM
.....is the particularly proposed name of this topic.Here we can have three questions :
    -where is the beam or something alike?
    -how plays the gravity ?
    -what is the primary design/principle of this possible kind of engine ( converting gravity potential energy into mechanical motion) ?
  So , we are "beaming" ,following like a radio beam, as an aircraft ...to gravity or to variable rotational inertia ?
     All is basic mechanics , nothing more...in my opinion.
         Al_ex

Perhaps it can be like this:
1. have a massive balanced beam
2. make it unbalanced with a tiny weight
3. make other end to accelerate to a considerable speed
4. transfer a momentum to a generator

A tiny weight on one end will create a huge momentum on another end(m x v)
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: ARMCORTEX on August 25, 2014, 02:34:57 AM
the device of feliz wuirth, living machine.

does not work, it does not even have a tappable shaft from what I can see.

The Device of Kanarev, unworkable, it needs impossible clutch.

a device wich is basicly the reference in terms of gravity devices was the chas Campbell

from my research, was a legitimate device.

http://www.overunity.com/12464/using-chas-cambel-flywheel-system-for-15-horsepower/135/#.U_qAU010y70

From the sims i did, if we add a small, hidden, eccentric, we can have rocking motion wich is = to rotating frequency, if the frame holding this rotating mass is somewhat loose.

It is my belief, that this switch flywheel is trapped between loose( pulleys) , wich allow it to oscillate by translation just enough to be energized by drive motor and squeeze the the pulley powerfully and fast, avoiding connection of input to ''filter wheels'' if possible When such force of applied tangantially at 1000hz, the lead out theory happens.

I believe that this attempt is quite obvious with chas first video, but that others, are batter @ hiding this oscillating tension on the belt.

The Turkish company is a perfect example, you cannot visually notice the rocking. but their assembly indicates to me that their tensionner needs to be tuned.



Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on August 27, 2014, 04:24:48 PM
Hi, added power output gear and more mass to the support arms.


Relationships I have noticed:

1.greater mass on the support arms the smoother it operates

2.counter torque most be applied to the crank as the planet gear mass moves toward the center and released as the mass moves
   away from the center, if timing of the counter torque is off it start to stall

3. will not operate if the support arms RPM is slow


For this device to be useful, it is going to need a controller board. Two inputs, one to read RPM's of the support arms and one to detect the position of the planet gear weight as it starts to move toward the center. Two outputs to control the electromagnets that will drive a pendulum that will be connected to the crank arm. There maybe a purely mechanical solution, but I can not think of it.... Controller board will be a good winter project. Suggestions and corrections welcome.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on September 03, 2014, 12:41:31 PM
.....is an attempt to open a topic about the possibility to imagine and test the variable/oscillatory leverage with / of a beam.
Take a look at : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kRW0ASuBrdc
If this design is unworkable...can we imagine and test a workable one?!
      Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on September 15, 2014, 12:26:25 AM
Hi, making progress. I still have to install double bob pendulum. Using overrun clutch to drive main flywheel. If you want me to start a new thread please let me know. I think the problem with the design you posted is it will find equilibrium and stop.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on September 15, 2014, 12:15:15 PM
   Hi !
This is not my design ;  somebody ( Kojin ?) posted it on youtube.
It does seem to be a not-workable one (a test can be conclusive)
My challenge was: playing around this simple idea , can we imagine a workable design ( and test...) ?!
The common  starting image can be : a self-swinging seesaw , due to an alternate gravity unbalance.
  Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on September 16, 2014, 11:24:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W59ROq45d_s

Hi, a short video update identifying problem areas. I am planning to add a second symmetric weight to each planetary gear and increase the gear ratio of each planetary gear so they function more as gyroscopes. Then the device will act more like a standard flywheel with the added benefit of precession. It should also solve the input timing problem with the pendulum.
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on September 16, 2014, 12:02:56 PM
     Hi 0017 !
This thread was intended about a possible gravity powered device ( see the main topic...) , if we start with a fulcrum , a beam (lever) and a certain arrangement of two masses , so to play variable/oscillatory leverage due a continuous gravity unbalance , on the same side of the fulcrum , nothing more.


As I see , you test a personal mechanical contrivance (as  Felix Wurth and others...) ,aiming to manage some centrifugal effects for ...?!...maybe to deal with a controllable tractive vector ...so to use it for...?!


One of the secrets of the life , is to keep our curiosity alive...so , I wish your success !
     Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: burnit0017 on September 16, 2014, 01:38:34 PM
Hi, thanks the for info, I will start a new thread. Thank you for the help. Cheers
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on September 16, 2014, 07:17:37 PM
.....as a manner to simplify our imaginative attempts for a gravity ( "self") powered device , at :
            www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upp-Xr5JAg0  (Remzi Eyupoglu)


Somebody ("veproject 1") made a test at :  www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9YLkoJz7rM
...working/rotating for a while , due to a starting push.


They play a beam/lever , with two equal masses/equal arms ( a centered body ) and a pendulum ( an eccentered body ).


Easy to make a simple "cut" of the up-here design and to test it...if we play two masses /pendulums /eccenters, only on the beam.


It does seem that , due to a continuous gravity unbalance , on the same side of the lever's  ffulcrum.....it's  a "different" game


           Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on November 02, 2014, 05:58:27 PM
.....if we replace the steam power concept , from :
www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/WebElmers3D/Web_09_TWIN%20CYLINDER.JPG
...with the gravity unbalance ( a Class 2,3 oscillatory leverage ) , of two beams , at :
www.geocities.ws/iacob_alex/Some_Drafts/text032.jpg
        Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: Low-Q on November 02, 2014, 07:14:30 PM
Hi, making progress. I still have to install double bob pendulum. Using overrun clutch to drive main flywheel. If you want me to start a new thread please let me know. I think the problem with the design you posted is it will find equilibrium and stop.
For your information:
All types of machines like this or other which is suppose to work without input, will find equilibrium and stop.
Also, feedback loops or assistance of any kind needs energy to be taken from somewhere. Taken from the machine itself will likely cause the feedback source to be fed by the machine itself. How do you in a closed loop determine where the energy source, feed backs, or assistance is coming from? Can you determine in what "direction" the energy is flowing in a closed system with no energy input?


Vidar
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on November 07, 2014, 06:37:03 PM
.....so easy to test , has the shortest spare parts listing :
     -two beams
     -a byke's pedal crank
     - two fulcrums
    So, can we  play a possible self running Class 1,2,3  oscillatory leverage?
      Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: Low-Q on November 08, 2014, 03:20:24 PM
.....so easy to test , has the shortest spare parts listing :
     -two beams
     -a byke's pedal crank
     - two fulcrums
    So, can we  play a possible self running Class 1,2,3  oscillatory leverage?
      Al_ex
It's easy to test, but I can't see that it's neccessary. However, I cannot stop people from trying. Last time I made a trip with my bicycle I really had to work those pedals all the time. No free ride :-)
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on November 15, 2014, 10:25:23 PM
.....is a possible second class lever simple machine , playing variable/oscillatory leverage , as follows :
     http://imgarcade.com/1/second-class-lever-simple-machine/  with :
     -Ld=constant
     -Ed=oscillatory(to and fro)
     We need a pair of counterbalanced beams , playing variable length ( Ed ) for simply supported beam , due to a Class 1 lever collecting the unbalance.
      Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on December 23, 2014, 11:31:07 PM
.....has a very old "ancestor" , playing variable leverage , also :
     www.nubian-eco-village.com/example-of-a-working-shaduf/  ...see the short movie
     Every simple machine playing gravity has something "very ancestral" : the lever.
        Al_ex
Title: Re: Beam gravity engine...
Post by: iacob alex on December 25, 2014, 04:53:24 PM
.....if you make a connection with a lab-demo ( Loaded beam - moving scales...or variable support point ) , at :  www.physics.uci.edu/~demos/images/Demos/1j10.30.gif
  Effectively we can test a continuous unbalanced leverage ( a pair of beams with a variable support point, and a Class 1 equal arms lever ).
  Science is sometimes perception , or simply common sense but the certitude is one thing we can't get without a repeatable demonstration/test.
     Al_ex