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Author Topic: Water fogger  (Read 6445 times)

Offline Duranza

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Water fogger
« on: August 21, 2006, 06:53:21 PM »
Hey guys... i was just thinking. You know those water foggers .. like this ones http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html Now i was wondering about injecting the water fog to an car engine... Now my question is would the spark ignite the fog?? I know it is still water molecules (not broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen... But has anybody tryed this?

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Water fogger
« on: August 21, 2006, 06:53:21 PM »

Offline TheOne

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2006, 09:14:42 PM »
i dont think your car will go far with that :)

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2006, 05:04:01 PM »
While fogging the fuel before mixing it with air might help it burn more efficiently, water would not help in the combustion of or the hydrocarbons in any way.

Heres an example of standard octane gasoline combustion reaction:
C8H18 + 17(O2) = 8(CO2) + 9(H2O)

Just a note though, I'm just speculating but the ammount of energy required to fog the fuel is probably higher then potential energy gain by the more efficient burn.

ALTHO?!?!?!

I wonder if fogging water would assist in a electrolysis cell?

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2006, 05:04:01 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2006, 06:02:19 PM »
This is just an educated opinion, but I believe part of the efficiency of an electrolysis unit has to do with the surface area of water in contact with alloy rods. By fogging the water you are essentially mixing air into the water and diluting (with air) the concentration of water over a given surface area. This would make the entire process less efficient.

This is just my opinion. I wouldn't know for sure unless I tested the idea.

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2006, 12:41:52 AM »
This is just an educated opinion, but I believe part of the efficiency of an electrolysis unit has to do with the surface area of water in contact with alloy rods. By fogging the water you are essentially mixing air into the water and diluting (with air) the concentration of water over a given surface area. This would make the entire process less efficient.

This is just my opinion. I wouldn't know for sure unless I tested the idea.

I was simply thinking if the water is in an excited state as a fog and may possibly lend some of that energy to the electrolysis process. May I ask, what is your opinion of using heated water? In other words if the temp goes up does the watts per mole go down?

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2006, 12:41:52 AM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2006, 02:08:41 AM »
Dingus Mungus,

This is how it looks to me.

During electrolysis the amount of energy which must be supplied by the battery is actually a change in the Gibbs free energy. This is dependant on the change in enthalpy minus change in entropy dependant on temperature. Since the temperature is provided by the environment, an increase in temperature would mean that less battery energy would need to be consumed to split the water molecule. So the watts of energy needed from the battery to split a given amount of water would decrease.

By fogging the water you are breaking it into very tiny droplets that are light enough to be suspended in air. The energy needed to fog the water does not mean the water is at boiling temperature while fogged. As anyone who has walked through fog can attest, it is not at boiling temperatures, though it may be elevated immediately after fogging, but would probably cool quickly. This probably has little or no effect on the temperature portion of the Gibbs free energy equation. The energy needed is the same, but by fogging you are putting air between the droplets, which can act as an insulator and reduce the electrical energy transfer. This would also mean less water contacts the electrodes per unit of time. This would reduce your output of HHO gas per unit of time.

This is how it looks to me, but I am the first to admit that I can be wrong. Again it is an opinion. What do you think?

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2006, 11:08:10 PM »
Sweet, thanks for all the great info!  ;D

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2006, 11:08:10 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2006, 06:35:52 PM »
Another quick question about 'gibbs free energy' info...
Would pressure also contribute energy like heat does?
(I assume yes)
Are there any other forces that can actively contribute
energy to electrolysis? I'm going to go do some google
searches and read up, but it sounds like you've looked
in to this FE angle before. Also have you ever looked at
"hydrosonic pump" overunity boilers and water heaters?

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 03:04:31 AM »
Dingus Mingus,

Try with this link for a start:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1311.msg10529.html#msg10529

Does pressure contribute to the electrolysis energy? Well, think about it for a few seconds. If you are trying to draw off the H2 and O2 gas then would a positive or negative pressure help to push the equilibrium in the desired direction? Putting a positive pressure would inhibit the gas evolution. A negative pressure would help draw off the gas produced, thus helping the electrolysis; but then how would you create the vacuum?

This is a subject with many different ideas and directions. Who can say there is any one correct answer? Just look at all the people trying different hydrolysis techniques. Different electrolyzers, acids, bases, voltages, apparatus variations. That's what's such a challange.

Have fun at it and open your mind to ideas

Look at this patent too. Here is a technique that doesn't even need a power input to product H2 and O2 gas.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,518.0.html

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Water fogger
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 03:04:31 AM »
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Offline bossangel

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2006, 01:58:58 AM »
Hi All! First time post here.

I did read somewhere (and double checked it elsewhere) that it takes about 1/10 the amount of energy to accomplish electrolysis of steam versus electrolysis of water. So the exercize is to create steam efficiently enough that your power consumption comes in somewhere under the remaining 9/10's of power you are trying not to use.

I actually researched this as I think the challenge is trying to produce hydrogen quickly with efficiency not necessarily being the goal.

boss

Offline sammons

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2006, 03:21:45 AM »
IF you were to put a high voltage spark through the fog from a water fogger would it be possible to have the water be elecrolised, split into HHO and ignite?

:o) Phil

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2006, 03:21:45 AM »
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Offline Duranza

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Re: Water fogger
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2006, 02:38:01 AM »
That is exactly my question... HV + Water fog = ???

 

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