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Author Topic: Keenie Device  (Read 3137 times)

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Keenie Device
« on: February 14, 2014, 10:56:36 AM »
This is a new thread to discuss the Keenie device.  Mr. Grimer started the topic in the middle of another thread.  I have started this thread with Mr. Grimer's first two posts:

The Keenie.

How it works and why it works.

It is important from the outset to think in terms of the correct variable if one is to understand the way gravity is harnessed by the Keenie device.

That varible is the third derivative of position with respect to time, or jerk to give it its official shorthand name.

When a weight at the end of a radius arm is allowed to fall under gravity it is not in free fall but constrained free fall; it is not simply accelerating, it is "jerking". A weight moving at a constant angular speed around an axle is already in a state of acceleration, i.e. acceleration toward the centre, towards the axle. It is already in a 2nd derv state. Increasing the angular speed takes it into a 3rd derv  state.

The mechanism of pivot and radius arm is transducing the gravitational 2nd  derv free fall acceleration into 3rd derv, jerk.

This process in analogous the the way that an electrical transformer transduces low voltage current to a high voltage current. I've used the more general term transduce rather than the EM term to avoid the confusion that might arise if I wrote, "the pivot and radius arm is transforming the 2nd derv, acceleration, into the 3rd derv, jerk. I don't want people trying to visualise electrical currents flowing to ground. :-)

Consider now a Keenie with twelve weights distributed at 15° intervals around its circumference. This is the same distribution as the hours on a clock face and so it will be convenient to refer to the weights by their clock names. The weight initially at 3 o'clock will be the #3 weight, that at 4 o'clock the #4 weight, etc.

Initially all the radius arms are locked together and the weights are all gravitationally balanced by their opposite numbers. The #2 weight is balanced by the #8 weight, the #5 weight by the #11 weight, and so on.

Next the #3 weight is unlocked and allowed to swing down under the transduced action of gravity, to jerk down towards the #4 weight. Define clockwise(CW) jerk as positive (+ve).

The instant the #3 weight is released its opposite number, the #9 weight is no longer balanced. It also begins to jerk (-ve) down. However, because the #9 weight is locked to 5 pairs of balanced weights which it has to drag along in its fall the rate of -ve jerk will be much less for the #9 weight and its companions than the rate of +ve jerk for the #3 weight.

Another way of looking at it is to see the eleven weights as forming a compound pendulum of very slow period with the #9 weight swinging towards an eventual keeling position at 6 o'clock.

As the #9 weight slowly falls counter-clockwise(CCW) , the #4 weight will slowly jerk upwards to impact the #3 weight at some point between 3 and 4 o'clock. Assuming perfect elastic interaction both #3 and #4 will recoil and decelerate to their original start positions

Because the weights are in a closed system and no jerk energy can escape, jerk (angular momentum) is conserved. The sum of the units of CW jerk will be equal to the units of CCW jerk. Consequently there is no rotation of the wheel resulting from the elastic interaction of the weights. The impulse given to the wheel by the #3 weight is completely counteracted by the opposite impulse given to the wheel by the remaining weights.

It is very tempting to think that all one needs to harness gravity is an asymmetric gravity action. Indeed, I use to think this and pursued many false leads in this asymmetry quest. The above case is a good example of a quite extreme asymmetry and as can be seen it gets one nowhere.

Now the law of energy conservation applies to closed systems. It doesn't necessarily apply to open systems. So one needs to open up the Keenie system to allow one half of the jerk energy (the angular momentum) to escape. We need a valve which will let one half (the CCW jerk, say) out of the system and retain the other half (the CW jerk) within the system.

A one way clutch at the axle (or on a leyshaft driven by sprocket and chain in the case of the Keenie) provides just such a valve.

The clutch prevents the wheel turning CCW. Thus the effect of gravity on the unbalanced #9 is to transmit torque to the tower and hence to the ground. In other words to send CCW jerk outside the system to be lost in miniscule change in angular momentum of the earth - the same action that takes place on a much large scale with the slingshot/gravity assist technique for speeding up space vehicles.

To sum up then, #9 does not fall, #4 does not rise. All the impulse from #3 is taken up by the wheel apart from some small amount needed to assist recoil to reset the #3 somewhere between 3 and 4 o'clock and to overcome frictional losses.

Once #3 has been reset the wheel is again perfectly balanced and will continue to rotate at constant speed with the impetus given it by the #3 fall.

Quickly the #2 weight will reach 3' o'clock and the cycle will recommence with the #2 jerking towards the now fixed #3. This gives the wheel another increment of angular momentum.  The wheel will continue in this staccato fashion until it reaches equilibrium with its load plus frictional forces.

I owe the idea of recoil to Hans von Lieven.

In my view his paper (link below) is the best single source for info on the Keenie.

I'll have to find the relevant quote.

Keenie Device
« on: February 14, 2014, 10:56:36 AM »

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Keenie Device
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 10:58:22 AM »
Quote

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1136 on: Today at 10:02:41 AM »

Quote

Quote from: Grimer on Today at 09:17:10 AM

The Keenie.

How it works and why it works.

...In other words to send CCW jerk outside the system to be lost in miniscule change in angular momentum of the earth - the same action that takes place on a much large scale with the slingshot/gravity assist technique for speeding up space vehicles...

Except... In a system where the device is receiving a gravitational slingshot from earth AND  that device is launched from earth, the amount of energy that an be gained from the slingshot it exactly equal to (or less than) the amount of energy required to position that object such to a position where it can take advantage of such an energy assist.

No free lunch to be had here.

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Keenie Device
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 10:58:56 AM »
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TinselKoala

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1138 on: Today at 10:36:50 AM »

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Frank, you might as well be describing a pink invisible unicorn carousel in detail... because it has just as much reality as your "Keenie" fantasy. No amount of your detailed description can alter the fact that IT DOES NOT WORK. So really, you should quit acting like, and claiming, it does, until you are able to demonstrate it. Until then it's just your fantasy, nothing more, and we are trying to discuss reality here, not yours and webby's fantasies.