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Author Topic: Moped Generator... reconstructed....  (Read 21625 times)

Offline Frost

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Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« on: August 20, 2006, 04:56:55 PM »
Hi gang, i have discovert by accident a Very good generator. it started with my current transport device, a moped, Vespa Ciao.
I had egnition problems with it, mostly due to the flywheel magnets being almoust 30 years old, so i bought some Neodym magnets that was a lot smaller than the orginal flywheel magnet but they did the trick, it went from producing about 20Watt to 200+Watt, but here?s the punch line, it runs faster and no matter how hard i load the power supply from the ignition it doesn?t take any HP from the engine. then i bought as big neodym magnets as i could fit into it, that did take som of the engine power but it made over 500Watt and could still idle the engine, and again it didn?t matter how big a load it had to supply.
In the ignition there are 2 coils, one for ignition and one for power to lights. now i pulled more than 500watt one only one coil that means that my moped with only 2 HP could support more than 1000Watts if i had some other ignition to keep it running.

This is something to look into, because i really works. And it makes way more power than its input from only 2 HP.
With the 200W flywheel it would go 70 KM/t good Acceleration
With the 500W flywheel it would go 60 KM/t ok Acceleration

if any of you have an old moped standing around you should try it.

One of the reasons that this works like it does is that the generator is like a car generator just inverted.

Sorry for spelling errors, not so active in english these days, From denmark

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline legendre

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2006, 01:09:00 AM »
First post.

Frost,

I am a mechanic, and an enthusiast of mopeds. Would you please elaborate on exactly what you have done to the magneto rotor on the Vespa? Also, please provide the name of the manufacturuer of the magneto (Dansi, Ducati, Bosch, Marelli, or?) and the model number of the magneto, if possible.

My memory says that the magnets in the rotor are cast directly into the aluminum metal of the rotor body, and so replacing them would be almost impossible. I know there are other designs where the magnets are bonded to the rotor, but is this one of them?

Finally, how are you measuring the power output, and how hot do the lighting and exciter coils inside the magneto become when outputting such high power? They are simple coils, and together they are only the size of a cigarette pack. I'd think they would be on fire with the kind of output you claim.

Best,
M. Legendre

Offline Frost

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2006, 04:34:25 PM »
The coils does?t get very hot on the 200W model, havent tryed long term load on the 600W, the magnet in the orginal flywheel is a long magnet with 2 S and 2 N poles in the normal order, N S N S, it is just glued on,and poses no problem to take out, then just buy new neodym magnets and put them in, again  N S N S order not critacal if the are offset from the orginal magnet.

But the point of this generator is that it har the potintial to make more then you put in, one of the meny cars vi have in the yard has a bad batteri so when i turn on the fan to cool the cabine it allmoust kills the engine, but no matter how much you load a moped generator it does?t take power from the engine, as i posted first 1000w on 2 HP and that is only the standard size, im am in the prosess of making a bigger model with bigger coils and more powerfull neodym magnets. but resouces are a bit low these days so ill keep you all posted on that later.

i am to an enthusiast of mopeds, only 25 years old, havent had to meny only 110 so far of diffent types.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2006, 04:34:25 PM »
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Offline Frost

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2006, 04:52:43 PM »
should warn about when you make this mod, the power becomes 22-24Volts intead of 6-15Volts (Depending of RAMPS), 24Volts vas at approx 11000 RPM. The amps from 6 volts and up on the 200W model vas over 9 amps. so should?t have to say this since all in this forum have plenty of exp in power. 24Volts x 9Amps = 216W and again it made more than 9Amps. now picture the coils being a little bigger and whit 10x the turns with the same wire size. of course there are always losses but that in direct conversion gives 240Volts and 9Amps = 2160Watts on the same 2 HP and the same magnets. the picture i have posted it the 200W flywheel. the magnets are 20 x 10 x 4mm N-35 only, not the biggest and baddest of the neodym magnets. i haven?t made any test of how much power in terms of HP it takes to only run the engine with the flywheel but it goes faster because the 16 magnest ways less then the orginal magnet so what could be 240Volts and 9Amps (Pr Coil!!!!!) takes no more then almoust nothing in terms of HP. im am working on building a model where the power source is a 140W electric engine i have and now there are 2 Coils to make the power in the generator since there is no need for ignition...

Offline legendre

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2006, 02:55:49 AM »
Frost,

I think you're a bit off, here..

Firstly, 600W is only 0.8HP.. that is nothing like overunity.. for a 2HP engine. I suspect that if you upgraded the magnets/coils as you describe, that you would never get more than 1,500W (2HP) out of the alternator. Of course, if you installed one of the speed kits for the Vespa, you might increase the motor output by several HP.. but you'll still never get more than you put in.

Also, when you are making your measurements, are both the voltage and current measurements done under full load? Are you taking the measurements with an oscilloscope, or VOM?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2006, 02:55:49 AM »
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Offline Frost

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2006, 01:14:44 PM »
an aprox cacl of the generator with 2 coils in use WILL produce well over 4000Watts whitout even using 2HP, READ THE TEXT ABOVE!!!!!

This is the generator known as the LOW DRAG generator, it have similuar specs as the G-Field Generator, No matter how much you load the coils with lamps and such i does?t take more HP like a normal Car generator does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline pese

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2006, 04:27:06 PM »
I think also that this one-interesting work be if only with a simple coil  700 Watts @ 1HP or 1400 Watts @ 2HP to be reached. Other generators are taking more complex developed around only similar achievements to obtain.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2006, 04:27:06 PM »
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Offline pg46

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2006, 06:47:01 PM »
Hi Frost-

 Thats a pretty interesting thing you have happening there with that Vespa generator. The part of the world where I live there was the Vespa before the mighty Hondas took over the market. But there are still many avid Vespa fans here who form clubs and groups etc.
 I did notice often the incredible amount of lights that they had on some of them! I mean like perhaps some had 15 headlamps or more even! and so I had often wondered what kind of mighty generators and battery system they must have and how do they do it with such tiny gas engines???
 You have given me some answers to those questions - a million thanks!

Now I will look forward to hearing more about your adventures with the Vespa Generator System.

Please go on with your experimenting and keep us informed.

Best of Luck,

PG46

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2006, 03:25:36 AM »
Hi Frost,
how do the coils look from the Vespa generator ?
How is it different to other alternators ?
Why has it so much low drag only ?
Are the coils specially oriented ?
Can you post a picture please ?
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2006, 03:25:36 AM »
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Offline legendre

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 06:12:39 AM »
Hello Stefan, and all.

First of all, the Vespa scooters of the 1960s and onward have much more powerful motors than the later mopeds. In most countries, a moped is limited to 1-2HP, or 30MPH, or both. Most mopeds cannot make more than 30-35mph with their little 49cc 2-cycle engines. The larger Vespa scooters (150-200cc)could make 70MPH and more, which is quite scary for a vehicle with such a high center of gravity, and small wheels.

Considering the much higher engine output of the Vespa scooter vs. the moped, and the ability of the scooter to carry a large storage battery, running many lights & accessories is not a very difficult proposition.

This moped, in stock form, will never make 4000W of electrical power.

Offline pg46

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 07:25:42 AM »
Hi -

 Would be good to hear from Frost . I wonder how he is doing in modifying his vespa alternator? Where I live I have found new or reconditioned vespa alternator units that look like what Frost had shown in his photos. they cost about $80US for a complete unit.
  Legendre is right when thinking of the possible speeds of the Vespa scooters that are 150 cc plus and those tiny wheels that they have -scary for sure. I don't know the size of the batteries that they have but I will try to find out. I don't think that the batteries alone will explain all of the lights these guys run on their bikes. I don't see anyone doing this with their Japanese scooters around these parts. Even if you have large battery storage your alternator needs to keep up to your amperage draw of your electrical systems plus have some to spare to keep your battery charged.
 
Lets hope to hear from Frost and see how he is doing.

Best,

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 07:25:42 AM »
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Offline Frost

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2006, 08:32:54 PM »
My vespa is the old ciao with no batteri or any fansy electric systems, it only has a front and back light, it is a 49 cc engine. the only thing i have done so far is replased the magnet with 16 SMALL magnets, that has changed the power output from a 25W max to 200W+ max, in idle it puts out aprox 12v 6a AC, i have also made another flywheel with as big magnets i could fit in, it has no problem fully lighting a 12V 95W light bulb in idle (600-800 rpm). now this is only using 1 of the 2 coils in the engine. the 2 coil is used to make ignition, it was the only reason why i even made the "conversion" in the first place, i had a lot og ign problem?s with the stock 25w power system, since i have made the "conversion" the ignition has not had any problem?s. but here?s the kicker no matter how hard i load the coil, it does?t take power from the engine (that meens HP from the engine). now with the big magnet?s it made up to 600w on 1 coil, now lets say that i make a lawnmower ign for the sparkplug only and use 2 coils that makes 1200w and i does?t use more than ? HP.
The moped generator uses coils in the center and magnets around the coils. A "normal" generator from a car, uses Magnets in the center and coils around it, it makes a giant eletro magnet that takes HP from the engine, the moped generator does?t take more power from the engine when you really load it. hope it helps.... you should be able to find scematic/blueprints on any mopeds ign if you want to try this. any moped would do, they all have similur ign systems. belive me i have had way over 100 mopeds of all sorts.

Offline pg46

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2006, 09:21:25 PM »
Hi Frost-

 Nice to hear from you. Thanks for all of your information. I was curious, how many HP does the Vespa 49cc engine produce anyways?
 I have found some new or rebuilt Vespa alternators and the ones I see have 3 coils in them?? I don't know what models they come from but the 150cc models are common around here. It is very interesting that you claim you may get 1200W(or 600w/coil) while using less than 1/2 HP from the engine. That would be very useful for sure. Maybe with the relatively large sized outer ring that are holding the magnets it acts like a flywheel where once in motion it has quite a bit of power to keep its momentum and thus doesn't use much HP from the engine?
 I don't know but I think I may go get myself a Vespa generator and try it for myself someday soon.

Thanks for sharing your interesting discovery.

Best Regards,

Offline legendre

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2006, 01:36:43 AM »
The ignition on the Vespa Ciao isn't anything special, for sure. It's the same type of flywheel magneto used on pretty much every classic moped, and one of the reasons that they require pedals.. ;) they are not overly reliable, especially when age and lack of maintainence combine.

In general, 49cc moped engines produce between 1 and 2 horsepower, in stock form. I'm not sure of the exact ratings for the Ciao, but I suspect that like many mopeds, the US and EUR versions differ a bit. Again, in general terms, the EUR models tend to make a little more power than the US models.

Frost - please keep in mind that 2HP converts to 1.5kW (1500 watts). A 95W lightbulb represents only 6.33% of the total power available from a 2HP engine. I applaud your interest in old motorbikes, they are vastly underappreciated these days. BUT - until you can light up 1500W of light, and still drive the bike at road speed, I don't think there is any call for miraculous claims of free energy.

pg46 - "Maybe with the relatively large sized outer ring that are holding the magnets it acts like a flywheel where once in motion it has quite a bit of power to keep its momentum and thus doesn't use much HP from the engine?"

It would be nice if it worked like that, but it doesn't. A flywheel is basically just a capacitor (condenser) for kinetic energy. It can store a great deal of energy over time, and release it very quickly - but it is still 100% conservative - you can only take out as much (well, actually less, according to the second law) as you put in to it. While a flywheel can produce large pulses of power when required, the average ouput power, over time, is slightly less than the input.

Best wishes to both of you. Don't disappoint your moped, take it for a ride!

Offline pg46

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Re: Moped Generator... reconstructed....
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2006, 07:01:52 AM »
Hi Legendre-

 I appreciate your feedback. I don't know what Frost has done for load tests really beyond running the 95 watt bulb at an idle. When you consider that he started with an original 25 watt unit he has already made a obvious large improvement over the original design by replacing the old weak magnets with permanent magnets.
 I'm not clear on all what he has done although he talked about a 200W and a 500W flywheel and taking it for a test drive to compare the two. He did say that with the 500w flywheel design it did in fact drag his power down somewhat and so effected his possible speeds. I am guessing that he meant that spinning those more powerful magnets created a reduction of available engine power even without an electrical load - but just guessing here.
 Would be very good if Frost will be able to give us a more clear example with a good load test.

 Legendre, did you see my post about the portable generator?

 http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=132&FID=1&level=0

This is a fun one for you, where the rated HP of the small desiel engine is 9 HP. Thats OK, but then wait a minute.. they say the electrical output power of the generator is 7500 watts! now what's up with that I wonder?? Maybe you can have a look at it yourself and tease the California manufacturer about it. There must be a serious misprint there right?

Thanks for your comments and all the best,
 
 
 
 

 

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