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### Author Topic: Roy Davis and Rawls Magnetism Discoveries  (Read 42237 times)

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5242
##### Re: Roy Davis and Rawls Magnetism Discoveries
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2013, 05:13:53 PM »
@MH
I would dearly like to see a real life device that show's a current flow with 0 volt's. Even a super conductor is not absolute 0 in resistance. So where there is a current flow across resistance(no matter how low) there will be a potential difference.
How can you ever have current without P/in?. I meand 10,000 amp's at 0 volts=0 watts-ohms law.

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Roy Davis and Rawls Magnetism Discoveries
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2013, 05:40:41 PM »
I would dearly like to see a real life device that show's a current flow with 0 volt's.

That would be a permanent magnet then.

From what I read superconductors absolutely do have zero resistance - that's the whole point. But, they usually also have a counterpart current which does follow ohms law. So the conductor is simultaneously operating in 2 different modes... It is pretty wierd.

To get current into a SC - you have to do it when it's not in the SC state, then cool it until it switches - then - I think you still have to supply the conventional current part - although it's very small... Perhaps someone who knows more will comment.

It's not such a stretch of the imagination is it?
- Pure voltage = Electrostatic Field
- Pure current = Magnetic Field

#### hanon

• Hero Member
• Posts: 616
##### Wesley Gary Neutral Zone
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2013, 06:22:31 PM »

WESLEY GARY NEUTRAL ZONE

The neutral zone is a neutral line where the polarity of an induced magnet ceases and beyond it changes polarity

I have seen some videos and it seems to refer to two repelling magnets which get attracted to each other when they are put closer and closer. The original effect seems to be done and tested in horseshoe magnets.  As far as I have seen with bar magnet shapes it seems to need sticking a iron bar to one of the magnets.

http://www.rexresearch.com/gary/gary1.htm

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Roy Davis and Rawls Magnetism Discoveries
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2013, 06:51:10 PM »
I've tested Wesley Gary's principle with a coil hooked up to an oscilloscope.

If there's a point where the field flips polarity - it should give a spike of voltage thru the coil. Wesley Gary designed a generator based on the principle.

I couldn't find a point where the field flipped, but it's an easy experiment for anyone with a 'scope (they're cheap), and it's quite possible the failure was mine...

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Roy Davis and Rawls Magnetism Discoveries
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2013, 11:22:44 PM »
Tim123:

Quote
If you can point me to a source of information which explains: *how a magnet works * - as opposed to: * what it's behaviour is * - without using self-referencing terms like 'magnetic domain' or 'magnetic moment' - I would be most grateful, and will read it immediately.

Perhaps your question can be posed another way:  Why does a moving charge produce a magnetic field?  These clips might not answer why, but at least they answer how:

Anyway my advice is that before you ask the "big questions" learn the answers to the small ones.  I think it was you that stated that sprinkling iron filings is no good because it will disturb the magnetic field of the magnet.  In fact that is not true and I am not going to get into splitting hairs.  My guess is that you "made a pronouncement" without the necessary knowledge to truly know if what you were saying is true or not.  That can be dangerous sometimes.

As a disclaimer I am not in any way trying to implore you to learn about electromagnetics.  The simple advice is to try to be conservative.  I don't see it stated much any more on the forums, but the line "this is research that is outside the realm of electrical engineering" is normally a laughable joke.  It can be frustrating sometimes to read it but who really cares.  "Cold electricity" and "radiant energy" are classic examples of the downright foolishness.  What's sometimes frustrating to me is that con artists use these terms to get money off of people.

MileHigh

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Roy Davis and Rawls Magnetism Discoveries
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2013, 11:45:25 PM »
Tinman:

Quote
I would dearly like to see a real life device that show's a current flow with 0 volt's. Even a super conductor is not absolute 0 in resistance. So where there is a current flow across resistance(no matter how low) there will be a potential difference.
How can you ever have current without P/in?. I meand 10,000 amp's at 0 volts=0 watts-ohms law.

In real life wires have resistance, even superconductors are not absolute superconductors with absolute zero resistance.  It does take energy to get current to flow.  But after the current is flowing then it takes no more energy to keep it flowing if you assume an idealized zero resistance.  The point is to be conscious of that.  It's just like anybody that wants to be serious about learning about electronics has to understand how ideal capacitors and ideal inductors work.  The "peanut gallery" comments like "that's not real life" are from people that are completely missing the point.  To me it sounds like they want to avoid learning the "hard stuff" but to each his or her own.

For capacitors, the no-load condition is an open circuit with infinite resistance, and that's very easy to do in real life.  For inductors, the no-load condition is a short circuit with zero resistance and that's very hard to do in real life.  It doesn't matter though, if you are working on a conceptual level, which is a very useful tool.  I posted how if you placed a closed Gaussian surface inside a magnet where one surface is where the alleged Bloch wall is supposed to be it would prove that the Bloch wall business inside the center of a magnet is simply not true.

Generic mini rant at the world:  Magnetic fields have properties and the ridiculous Howard Johnson/Ed Leedskalnin theories simply do not correspond to the observable properties of magnetic fields.  The "mysterious magnetic keeper" business that revolves around the Leedskalnin mystique is another one.  There are simple explanations for the magnetic keeper and "mainstream" tech people don't even notice things like this.  It's all a tempest in a teapot and it's used to take advantage of people.

MileHigh

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Roy Davis and Rawls Magnetism Discoveries
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2013, 09:01:45 AM »
Perhaps your question can be posed another way:  Why does a moving charge produce a magnetic field?  These clips might not answer why, but at least they answer how:

Hi MH
so you failed to find such an article - because none exists. Well, thanks for trying anyway, but perhaps you're being a little obtuse. You seem to be missing the point.

All physics can do is describe the * behaviour * of magnetism. It has nothing to say about it's underlying causes.

Here's our conversation so far:

Tim: 'How does a car work'?

MH: 'You get in the door, turn the key, and drive off'.

Tim:  'No, I want to know how it works - not how it's used'

MH: 'It's irrelevant - and you don't need to know that'.

Tim: 'I think it has an engine, and I think the pedals are somehow connected in a way we can't see.'

MH: 'Look - noobs like you should just go and read the Higway Code - it tells you everything you need to know'

Sigh...

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5242
##### Re: Wesley Gary Neutral Zone
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2013, 09:36:16 AM »

WESLEY GARY NEUTRAL ZONE

The neutral zone is a neutral line where the polarity of an induced magnet ceases and beyond it changes polarity

A battery changes polarity from one end to the other,and there is no neutral zone inbetween,so what makes you think that is the case with a magnet?.
It's like i said-how do two magnets stick together if the point of contact is neutral?
It's not neutral,infact it is extreemly powerfull.

We dont understand magnetism or gravity,but yet we lay claim that we understand electricity.
When the 3 are related,how can we understand one,and not the other two?
My guess is,we will one day find out that electricity isnt what we thought it was-well not quite anyway.We spend a lot of time looking at a 3 dimentional AC sinewave on a 2 dimentional screen.What dose an AC wave realy look like?-i lean toward a helix-the motion of the earth,sun,solar system,and universe.Any motion can be seen as a helix,depending on frame of reference.

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Wesley Gary Neutral Zone
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2013, 09:52:16 AM »
My guess is,we will one day find out that electricity isnt what we thought it was...
What dose an AC wave realy look like?-i lean toward a helix-the motion of the earth,sun,solar system,and universe.Any motion can be seen as a helix,depending on frame of reference.

Deep stuff mate. I definitely agree about the helix form of EM waves. In fact - it's (almost) mainstream science:

"all electromagnetic radiation consists of helical wave photons; electric currents consist of helical wave electrons. "
http://www.heliwave.com/gaasenbeek/spap1.html

#### hanon

• Hero Member
• Posts: 616
##### Electricity and magnetism
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2013, 08:44:53 PM »

We dont understand magnetism or gravity,but yet we lay claim that we understand electricity.
When the 3 are related,how can we understand one,and not the other two?
My guess is,we will one day find out that electricity isnt what we thought it was-well not quite anyway.We spend a lot of time looking at a 3 dimentional AC sinewave on a 2 dimentional screen.What dose an AC wave realy look like?-i lean toward a helix-the motion of the earth,sun,solar system,and universe.Any motion can be seen as a helix,depending on frame of reference.

“The day when we shall know exactly what “electricity” is, will chronicle an event probably greater, more important than any other recorded in the history of the human race. The time will come when the comfort, the very existence, perhaps, of man will depend upon that wonderful agent.” (NIKOLA TESLA)

#### Dimwick

• Newbie
• Posts: 1
##### Re: Roy Davis and Rawls Magnetism Discoveries
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2014, 07:07:06 PM »
I have just joined this discussion group, so will have to get used to your protocols!

Several times I have seen the Bloch Wall illustration, on various sites.  If this works correctly, the picture should appear (copy and paste).
* bloch-wall.jpg (100.17 kB, 490x383 - viewed 377 times.)

Now to be honest, this picture bothers me.  Let us imagine that we take a small piece of wood, just for convenience, and actually draw upon the surface the supposed directions of the spirals, and very importantly we must note that the ends are labelled N and S.  The north end will have the counter clockwise spirals, and the south end will have the clockwise spirals, all as per the drawing.  What we now do is turn this little piece of wood around by 180 degrees, so that now the south end is facing us.  Do you see that the lines of the spiral on this near end are now running *counter clockwise* - but wait - just seconds ago that gave us a north pole!

To put it rather bluntly, this concept as shown in the picture is broken.  Any "spiral" must run down the whole length of the bar magnet, twisting in the same direction throughout (no reversal half way along).  So how then do we get a south pole at the other end?  The magnetic field is a dipole by nature, the opposite ends will always be opposite poles.

This is not to presume that there cannot be some strange phenomena associated with magnets, indeed I sincerely hope that there are such, but the picture shown is in my opinion broken.  Or if we may be a little more controversial, if there actually is a Bloch Wall halfway along a bar magnet, then some process other than the conventional spiral/rotation of electrons is at work.