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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: d3x0r on December 20, 2013, 07:57:07 AM

Title: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on December 20, 2013, 07:57:07 AM



 Falstad sim (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-9+9.78399845368213+46+12.0+50%0Al+656+240+752+240+0+0.002+0.33328644099132215%0Ad+576+240+624+240+1+0.805904783%0Ag+816+96+816+48+0%0Aw+624+240+656+240+0%0Aw+752+240+784+240+0%0Ad+784+240+816+240+1+0.805904783%0Ac+624+192+752+192+0+2.5000000000000002E-8+4.277953008889782%0Ad+624+192+624+240+1+0.805904783%0Ad+752+240+752+192+1+0.805904783%0As+512+240+464+240+0+0+false%0AR+400+80+352+80+0+0+40.0+12.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ar+432+128+432+176+0+10.0%0Ar+464+128+464+176+0+0.1%0Ar+496+128+496+176+0+1000000.0%0Ar+528+128+528+176+0+1000.0%0As+432+128+432+96+0+1+false%0As+464+128+464+96+0+1+false%0As+496+128+496+96+0+0+false%0As+528+128+528+96+0+1+false%0Aw+432+176+432+240+0%0Aw+464+176+464+240+0%0Aw+464+240+432+240+0%0Aw+496+176+512+240+0%0Aw+528+176+512+240+0%0Aw+512+240+576+240+0%0Aw+400+80+432+80+0%0Aw+432+80+432+96+0%0Aw+464+80+464+96+0%0Aw+496+80+496+96+0%0Aw+528+80+528+96+0%0Aw+528+80+496+80+0%0Aw+496+80+464+80+0%0Aw+464+80+432+80+0%0Aw+432+240+384+240+0%0Ar+384+240+352+240+0+1.0E9%0Ag+352+240+352+272+0%0Aw+656+256+624+240+0%0Ar+816+240+816+192+0+0.01%0Ac+400+144+400+208+0+1.0E-8+7.712198881001765%0Aw+432+240+400+208+0%0Aw+400+144+400+80+0%0Ar+704+256+736+256+0+1.0%0Ac+768+192+768+224+0+1.0E-11+-0.7595659386014461%0Aw+752+240+768+224+0%0Aw+768+192+752+192+0%0Ac+656+256+704+256+0+5.0E-11+2.7588227041710365%0Aw+736+256+752+256+0%0Aw+752+256+752+240+0%0Aw+752+416+752+400+0%0Aw+736+416+752+416+0%0Ac+656+416+704+416+0+5.0E-11+3.517096994787844%0Aw+768+352+752+352+0%0Aw+752+400+768+384+0%0Ac+768+352+768+384+0+1.0E-11+-0.38507879120476757%0Ar+704+416+736+416+0+1.0%0Aw+656+416+624+400+0%0Aw+752+400+784+400+0%0Aw+624+400+656+400+0%0Ad+576+400+624+400+1+0.805904783%0Al+656+400+752+400+0+0.008+0.20962218312327202%0Aw+576+400+576+240+0%0Aw+784+400+816+400+0%0Aw+816+400+816+240+0%0Ad+624+352+624+400+1+0.805904783%0Ad+752+400+752+352+1+0.805904783%0Af+240+144+304+144+0+1.5%0Aw+432+80+432+48+0%0Aw+432+48+304+48+0%0Aw+304+48+304+128+0%0Aw+304+160+304+208+0%0Aw+304+208+400+208+0%0Aw+176+144+240+144+0%0AR+112+144+64+144+0+2+75000.0+12.0+0.0+-0.0+0.75%0Aw+112+144+176+144+0%0Aw+816+96+816+144+0%0Aw+864+144+864+176+0%0As+816+144+864+144+0+0+false%0Aw+864+176+816+192+0%0Ar+816+192+816+144+0+1000000.0%0Al+656+96+720+96+0+0.002+-0.15587765549950586%0Al+656+288+720+288+0+0.008+-0.053727264918739796%0Aw+656+288+624+352+0%0Aw+720+288+752+352+0%0Aw+720+96+768+192+0%0Aw+656+96+624+192+0%0Ac+656+352+720+352+0+5.0000000000000004E-8+-0.5554677486576018%0Aw+656+352+624+352+0%0Aw+720+352+752+352+0%0Ao+10+64+1+291+10.0+9.765625E-5+0+-1%0Ao+0+64+0+291+37.41444191567111+0.37414441915671115+1+-1%0Ao+59+64+0+291+40.0+0.4+2+-1%0Ao+79+64+0+35+20.0+0.2+3+-1%0A)

started with lots of switches to just change currents...
ended up duplicating the loop; and for a while cross wiring the load which stopped convergence failures.

This will eventually 'convergence failed' which is really a over voltage/over curernt sort of condition.

The switch time of the mosfet is at absolute maximum stress; that has to be healthy :)
Hmm maybe a spark gap is better there.

1) the current changes are not really going to be useful for inductive purposes...
2) continuous circulating monodirectional fields... any use?

Just diodes around the coil to absorb the forward EMF...

some tuning with resonanances may have resonant rise characteristics.

The circuit is fairly lossy probably only 60% available load
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 08, 2014, 02:07:16 PM
 Quote from: Dave45 on February 05, 2014, 09:37:53 AM (http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg386450/#msg386450)<blockquote>Not really we can have high voltage without current and hi current without voltage, neither can do work without the other, its a combination of both.
</blockquote>Current still doesn't reverse; if it did, added negative particles to positive wouldn't help ... your current arrows are indicating electrons moving towards positive; wouldn't happen... and if it did, it's not what would be wanted; would defeat charging of a cap that was used instead of a battery....


'sides your current is going opposed to the diode... wouldn't even reach the charge battery.  (http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/dlattach/attach/133046/image//) (http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/dlattach/attach/133045/image//)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought I would bring it over here so I dont distract in the other thread, you say the diode is wrong but the diode gives an indication of the polarity of the bemf, voltage runs with the diode arrow and amperage runs against it, the direction of the diode shows us the collapsing magnetic field has a pos polarity.

Now Im not saying this information is fact I am entertaining a theory, I have stated this before, in air purifiers the neg electrode accumulates a pos ion cloud and the pos electrode accumulates a neg ion cloud.

With this in mind would a neg pulsed coil accumulate a pos ion cloud if so then when the magnetic field collapses would the polarity of that field be pos, it would seem so by our experiments.

With the purifier example in mind if we could pulse a coil with pos energy it would accumulate a neg ion field (cloud) and when it collapsed would the polarity be neg instead of pos, the only way I see to pulse a coil with pos energy is to exactly what V8carlos did, he ran the bemf from one coil into another coil, pure genius.
I havent built his experiment yet but intend to soon.

I think we need to keep in mind when we build a magnetic field that field also has an electric component that runs 90 degrees to the magnetic field, can that fields polarity be changed.
The electric component of the two fields is what we need to study, Everyone admits that the electric field runs 90 degrees to the magnetic but then it is ignored.


Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 08, 2014, 02:11:53 PM
Here's the electric field of a solenoid running exactly where its suppose to 90 degrees to the magnetic field, this is the field that collapses into the coil. The question is can this fields polarity be changed.

Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 08, 2014, 02:36:24 PM
I also thought I would bring this up Carlos not only ran the bemf into another coil but notice the direction, pulsing neg energy from one side and pos energy from the other, this keeps both going in the direction the system requires.

Another thing if you study the coils, the position and orientation of the diode would let the two coils ring back and forth, it will pass the pos bemf from the neg pulsed coil and it will pass the neg bemf from the pos pulsed coil back and forth using a single diode.

The bemf can and will run back to either pos or neg of the battery if there is no suppression of some kind it will run back and destroy the driver this tells us it will run to neg or pos, because it is routed back to the pos does not mean its polarity is neg, the direction it passes through the diode gives and indication of its polarity.





Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 08, 2014, 04:04:02 PM
I taken the directions a bit further who says it has to run back to the batterie it would seem as indicated it can be injected back into the circuit.
The same could be true for Carlos's circuit it could be running into the pos side of the caps.

Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: forest on February 08, 2014, 04:21:56 PM
This method is excellent ! Dave I have some problems with realizing how BEMF and electrons could flow in that circuit  :-\  Can you draw it in two pictures like on other example ? Thank You!
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 08, 2014, 04:51:24 PM
This method is excellent ! Dave I have some problems with realizing how BEMF and electrons could flow in that circuit  :-\  Can you draw it in two pictures like on other example ? Thank You!
I'll try, this is the back and forth ringing.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on February 08, 2014, 05:09:00 PM


I thought I would bring it over here so I dont distract in the other thread, you say the diode is wrong but the diode gives an indication of the polarity of the bemf, voltage runs with the diode arrow and amperage runs against it, the direction of the diode shows us the collapsing magnetic field has a pos polarity.

no I said your arrow was wrong.


Now Im not saying this information is fact I am entertaining a theory, I have stated this
before, in air purifiers the neg electrode accumulates a pos ion cloud and the pos electrode accumulates a neg ion cloud.

With this in mind would a neg pulsed coil accumulate a pos ion cloud if so then when the magnetic field collapses would the polarity of that field be pos, it would seem so by our experiments.

With the purifier example in mind if we could pulse a coil with pos energy it would accumulate a neg ion field (cloud) and when it collapsed would the polarity be neg instead of pos, the only way I see to pulse a coil with pos energy is to exactly what V8carlos did, he ran the bemf from one coil into another coil, pure genius.
I havent built his experiment yet but intend to soon.

I think we need to keep in mind when we build a magnetic field that field also has an electric component that runs 90 degrees to the magnetic field, can that fields polarity be changed.
The electric component of the two fields is what we need to study, Everyone admits that the electric field runs 90 degrees to the magnetic but then it is ignored.
I don't know how you're differentiating 'pos' energy from 'neg' energy...  and it depends on which end you're taking the power off; and it depends if it's a coil responding to the induction of another coil or the coil itself as in the schematic you showed...
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on February 08, 2014, 05:12:28 PM
I'll try, this is the back and forth ringing.
Your arrows are going against the diode again....
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 08, 2014, 05:20:23 PM
I was wondering when you would wake up  ;D just kidding

The first pic in the series is supposed to be showing the current through the coil not the diode, I made the pics in a hurry, working on my house today.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on February 08, 2014, 05:22:07 PM
I was wondering when you would wake up  ;D just kidding

The first pic in the series is supposed to be showing the current through the coil not the diode, I made the pics in a hurry, working on my house today.
It's the second stage that has the error... (I added a revised image as an edit to the prior message)
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 08, 2014, 06:32:12 PM
The second image shows the collapsing pos field moving through the diode, its pos so moves through the diode in the voltage direction, this shows us the field has a pos polarity, if the backspike had a neg polarity the diode would have to be reversed.

This is the whole reason for the freewheeling diode to reroute the backspike away from the driver, by its orientation we can see the collapsing field is pos.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on February 08, 2014, 08:50:58 PM
The second image shows the collapsing pos field moving through the diode, its pos so moves through the diode in the voltage direction, this shows us the field has a pos polarity, if the backspike had a neg polarity the diode would have to be reversed.

This is the whole reason for the freewheeling diode to reroute the backspike away from the driver, by its orientation we can see the collapsing field is pos.
not really; you can keep the same notation of negative current and negative current...  why confuse it with two different notations of current?
the electron motion will still be in the same direction;
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 08, 2014, 11:11:54 PM
If we pulse a coil and catch the bemf we get pos energy - cold current - pure voltage Iv heard it called many names but it has no use, well it can be collected in a cap and used but if we use that pos energy to pulse a coil the bemf from the pos pulse should be neg current and that we can use, besides the fact that Carlos's circuit lets the primary ring back and forth.

Its just an idea a train of thought the pos and neg cloud accumulation on the electrodes of the air purifier is what brought it on, if we want to collect energy from the ambient we have to study it.

I have most of the parts needed to try Carlos's circuit, I have to order some caps then I will give it a shot.

all the best
dave

Evil prevails when good men do nothing
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: totoalas on February 09, 2014, 09:20:48 AM
try to connect the earth to the core :)
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 09, 2014, 12:56:20 PM
try to connect the earth to the core :)
That should charge the core with a neg charge and attract even more pos ions.
Its about charge attraction folks a neg charged coil will attract pos ions from the atmosphere, collect the pos and pulse another winding to attract neg ions, we need both.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 09, 2014, 01:04:08 PM
Some authors hedge by making the following statement. In general, the atmospheric medium, by which the near Earth is surrounded, contains not only electric charges bound in atoms or molecules, or any form of matter, but it also contains a quantity of charge in an unbound state. Sometimes the unbound charges are positive, sometimes negative, but as a general rule most are of an opposite polarity to that of the Earth. Different layers, or strata, of the atmosphere, located at only small distances from each other, are frequently found to be in different electric states.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electricity
We have pos and neg charges all around us but claim only neg charge flows in our circuits.

http://www.trifield.com/content/about-air-ions/
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 09, 2014, 01:40:49 PM
I should have studied this along time ago
http://www.electrostatics.com/page2.html

A magnetic field attracts charges from the atmosphere, if that field is collapsed those charges will collapse as well.
http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/07/25/how-solar-flares-directly-affect-human-consciousness/

Our planet has a neg charge the upper atmosphere has a pos charge, if our coil has a neg charge then the air around that coil has a pos charge and when the magnetic field of the coil collapses it will bring in a pos charge.

Its about charge separation, to collect before they cancel each other out.



Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 09, 2014, 02:33:36 PM
Thinking out loud  8)
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 09, 2014, 03:33:47 PM
Making a plan  :)
Quote
In order to gain the most benefit from your static neutralizing or static control equipment, it is important that you understand how they operate and how they provide the means of neutralization. Most electronic static neutralizers (http://www.electrostatics.com/products.html) are constructed by placing a high voltage on a sharp point in close proximity to a grounded shield or casing. There are two basic types static control ionizers- AC & DC
With Alternating Current ionizers the high voltage alternates current pulses through the 60 cycle operation, the air between the sharp points and the grounded casing is actually broken down by ionization and therefore both positive and negative ions are being generated. Half of the cycle is utilized to generate negative ions and the other half is utilized to generate positive ions. On 50 or 60 cycles per second power grid polarity is changing ionization every 1/100 or 1/120 of a second. 
If the coils are in close proximity to each other they cancel each other, by running each leg of ac to a transformer we are generating both pos and neg ions in close proximity to each other and cancelling any ambient return, we must separate the coils on each leg by enough distance that they dont cancel each others field.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 09, 2014, 03:56:47 PM
Eliminated one diode this also uses the bemf from each coil to pulse the other.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 10, 2014, 09:47:13 PM
A simple little test one can do to see which way the bemf is flowing through the diode.
If the bemf were in a neg current form it would not pass the diode as it is oriented in the circuit, but it does.
This tells us the bemf is pos, now if you want to call it pos current or pos voltage, some call it cold current, radiant energy it really doesnt matter as long as you realize there is an opposite flow as compared to neg current.
Is this flow present at all times, dont know, but we can see current flow and voltage flow with a scope but can we tell which way the traces are moving, could current flow one direction and voltage flow the other through the same circuit.
These are just some things Iv been thinking on.

later
dave

Im not trying to prove anyone right or anyone wrong Im just looking for answers.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on February 11, 2014, 07:41:52 AM
A simple little test one can do to see which way the bemf is flowing through the diode.
If the bemf were in a neg current form it would not pass the diode as it is oriented in the circuit, but it does.
This tells us the bemf is pos, now if you want to call it pos current or pos voltage, some call it cold current, radiant energy it really doesnt matter as long as you realize there is an opposite flow as compared to neg current.
Is this flow present at all times, dont know, but we can see current flow and voltage flow with a scope but can we tell which way the traces are moving, could current flow one direction and voltage flow the other through the same circuit.
These are just some things Iv been thinking on.

later
dave

Im not trying to prove anyone right or anyone wrong Im just looking for answers.


starting with that; the diode is in the wrong direcion to have any current flow; the large part of the batter is - and the small is +....


flip one or the other and can do some more figgering


need some reisstance in the meter path in series with the swtich; otherwise it's a dead short and there's 0 voltage (it will have less resistance than the meter, so none will go through the meter)
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: forest on February 11, 2014, 12:50:03 PM
why ? I think battery symbol is correct, long line is positive and short is negative , something changed ?
https://www.google.pl/search?q=battery+symbol&rlz=2C1VASU_enPL0536PL0536&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=dw76UrugHIzHsgbXsYG4Ag&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=909

Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: forest on February 11, 2014, 12:52:41 PM
Dave, very good experiment 
Did you make it ? can you post video ? did you used voltmeter ? maybe ampermeter would be more adequate ?
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 11, 2014, 12:58:02 PM
Yes you can us a resistor in the circuit after the coil, I did it works either way you will still get bemf hitting the meter.
We think of diodes as a one way valve but actually there not in that they let pos energy flow one direction and neg flow the other.
We tend to think of electricity as water flowing in a pipe, this is a mistake water does not flow in two directions at once.
When lightning strikes there are two leaders one from the neg charged ground and one from the pos charged clouds.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on February 11, 2014, 05:26:12 PM
Yes, when the switch opens, the coil side goes positive...


that is it has a supply of electrons near 0 potential/density... when the switch opens, the current in the coil cointinues...which removes the electrons from near the switch, which makes it positive....  or if the current is in the other direction, the current will continue towards the switch which will make that side negative....


It's always about one thing flowing; if there are two aspects, it's electro-magnetic and electro-static (dielectric)...
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on February 23, 2014, 02:20:02 PM
try to connect the earth to the core :)
Connect one core neg and one core pos
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: dieter on March 30, 2014, 03:25:15 AM
If we pulse a coil and catch the bemf we get pos energy - cold current - pure voltage Iv heard it called many names but it has no use, ...
I'm not sure of that. First of all, if it doesn't take energy to cause a pure voltage, why isn't everything at high voltage 24/7? So, it must take energy. Where does that come from?


An other aspect: here the word for voltage is "Spannung" which means Tension. It says a lot. Think of sparks and arcs. The higher the tension, the longer the arcs trough the air. Dynamic tension is energy manifestation IMHO. A voltage runs ahead of the current trough a coil, the current follows due to tension.
One thing I would definitely suggest to try is: connect your bemf to a good ground. I don't agree with the bemf running fwd, sorry. That's why it's named BACK emf.


There is some sort of problem when you try to redirect the bemf with diodes. They work well to block it from the fwd source, eg. fragile CMOS for protection.


But the redirection is a diffrent thing. Because the bemf manifests at the coils IN side, but is then blocked. Any direction it can flow from here may also be used by the fwd pulse. That's the dilemma. But there's an old trick: A sparkgap! So the fwd current will not use the sparkgap because A the coil is easier and B because the voltage is lower, the bemf on the other hand is blocked by the supply diode and is forced to jump accross the gap. 500 to 1000 volts required (I used a moskito trap, runs on 3V). AC is a bad choice for bemf stuff. short square dc pulses work best. Simple to implement with a spark gap, probably use tungsten or so to keep it service free. Back emf voltage of fwd 1kV may be 4kV, so use HV diodes and caps. 5 normal 1kV diodes in series substitute a 5kV diode.
So, this is the idea: redirect the bemf with said sparkgap and see it as you new plus pole. at the other end of the coil (that is already connected to supply minus) add a diode that goes to ground 1. This will become your positive bemf current source. After the "Bemf-gap" add a load and after that connect to ground 2, the bemf current negative source, a few meters away from ground 1. Also add blocking diodes after the supply, so the bemf does not try to draw positive current from the supply negative side.


Not sure if it works, but it fried my digital multimeter after showing hundreds of amperes, inconsistently jumping around :-) so be careful.


I will try this again.


Regards


Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: dieter on March 30, 2014, 04:50:21 AM
Here's a little sketch of what I'm talking about...
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on May 07, 2014, 01:24:04 PM
@d3x0r
Is this the one.

                        
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Bob Smith on May 07, 2014, 06:27:13 PM
@d3x0r
Is this the one.
Dave,
This is an interesting diagram. I know Tito gave it a "not bad" on his thread somewhere around page 200 (give or take 10 pgs). I'll try it out this week with some iron plumbing pipe from Home Depot as a hollow core, unless you suggest something else.  Do you need a diode in there to separate the charges?
Bob
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on May 08, 2014, 03:05:15 AM
Hey Bob good luck with the coil, I havent tried it, just seemed like a logical way to hook it up.

Capacitors are interesting but I think they can dissipate energy if hooked up wrong.

Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: stupify12 on May 08, 2014, 04:30:38 AM
Hi Dave.

How was your findings about this current peculiar nature? There is only solution to the free energy we are looking for if your could destroy the Inductance of the coil you are feeding ;then- you will understand that emf and bemf are not permitted to flow but are being captured and stored, when the storage cant hold it anymore the energy is dissipated by radiant phenomenon.

When that time happen that you have destroyed the Inductance of the coil- any negative opposing factors will be neglected/Null. The resulting phenomenon will be what they call Amplification / Magnification of the Energy.

That's all I can share with my own opinion.


Meow   ;D ;D

Hey Bob good luck with the coil, I havent tried it, just seemed like a logical way to hook it up.

Capacitors are interesting but I think they can dissipate energy if hooked up wrong.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on May 08, 2014, 05:16:02 AM
think the caps have to be turned... since the current is always opposite I drew some arrows and the original would have had current flowing to both plates of the cap... this direction allows current to flow in and out at the same time... was going to play with that with some mobius toroids.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: stupify12 on May 08, 2014, 09:06:39 AM
That is a good findings but. ::) ::)

 I prefer to put a secondary. This just a some newbie  suggestion don't take it if don't like it.

Why don't you wound the two primary(CW + CCW) in 2 halves. The left side is Cw Primary and Cw Secondary. Then the right side is CCW Primary and CCW Secondary. Connect the center/middle of both Primary and Secondary. You can used a Hv Capacitor between the connection of CW Primary and CCW Primary ; The better to put between the two Primary is a very small gap which is spark gap .  Better to wound it on a coreless or separated ring toroid powered cores. The secondary is just connect it like a common series on the middle.

Keep in mind to wind it layer; like this primary 1st layer- then 2nd layer on top of the first layer and so on. Same goes for the secondary wind it layer by layer. Atleast half a inch between the CW segment and CCW segment. If you could wind more coils as extra then it is much better- short those coils those extras and observe the brightness of the bulbs. 

Then feed the primary with any thing your like as long as AC, by cap discharge or low frequency AC much better if HV. Adjust like this HF + Low Voltage, Low Frequency + HV . Why feeding the Primary try to short out the secondary and observe. Put bulb on one side of the Secondary then observe. Put the Bulb between the Series CW Secondary and CCW Secondary as the bulb is the load then observe.

The sneak peak on this Tesla configuration is the more load=Bulbs you put the more the energy is output with out draining extra power from the supply. The more magnetic close/short circuit present on either the CW or CCW the more power is produce when those extra shorted coils are present.

The main purpose of this winding configuration is the CYLINDRICAL form of the Tesla Bifilar Pancake. The other purpose are already posted above. GoodLuck.

Thats all for now.   ;D ;D

Meow   ;D ;D

Please try to light the bulb with out putting any diode yet and observe. Watch closely the input of your signal power supply.
think the caps have to be turned... since the current is always opposite I drew some arrows and the original would have had current flowing to both plates of the cap... this direction allows current to flow in and out at the same time... was going to play with that with some mobius toroids.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Khwartz on May 08, 2014, 09:33:31 AM
That is a good findings but. ::) ::)

 I prefer to put a secondary. This just a some newbie  suggestion don't take it if don't like it.

Why don't you wound the two primary(CW + CCW) in 2 halves. The left side is Cw Primary and Cw Secondary. Then the right side is CCW Primary and CCW Secondary. Connect the center/middle of both Primary and Secondary. You can used a Hv Capacitor between the connection of CW Primary and CCW Primary ; The better to put between the two Primary is a very small gap which is spark gap .  Better to wound it on a coreless or separated ring toroid powered cores. The secondary is just connect it like a common series on the middle.

Keep in mind to wind it layer; like this primary 1st layer- then 2nd layer on top of the first layer and so on. Same goes for the secondary wind it layer by layer. Atleast half a inch between the CW segment and CCW segment. If you could wind more coils as extra then it is much better- short those coils those extras and observe the brightness of the bulbs. 

Then feed the primary with any thing your like as long as AC, by cap discharge or low frequency AC much better if HV. Adjust like this HF + Low Voltage, Low Frequency + HV . Why feeding the Primary try to short out the secondary and observe. Put bulb on one side of the Secondary then observe. Put the Bulb between the Series CW Secondary and CCW Secondary as the bulb is the load then observe.

The sneak peak on this Tesla configuration is the more load=Bulbs you put the more the energy is output with out draining extra power from the supply. The more magnetic close/short circuit present on either the CW or CCW the more power is produce when those extra shorted coils are present.

The main purpose of this winding configuration is the CYLINDRICAL form of the Tesla Bifilar Pancake. The other purpose are already posted above. GoodLuck.

Thats all for now.   ;D ;D

Meow   ;D ;D

Please try to light the bulb with out putting any diode yet and observe. Watch closely the input of your signal power supply.
Dear Stupify12.

I really don't understand you: you look knowing very well how EM/EM O.U. should function, how to make it, even to the point to tell others how to do, BUT still you were not able to answer my simple question I ask you now for the third time: HAVE YOU TRIED YOURSELF WHAT YOU ADVISE, AND WITH SUCCESS? AND IF "YES", WHERE ARE THE SCHEMATICS, THE VIDS, ETC? So that we could be sure you're not wasting time of others? :/

Regards.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: stupify12 on May 08, 2014, 10:11:11 AM
Well. I already warned on my post that dont take it if you dont like it. I have already described on the above post my findings on my replications of the worked of Tesla. Nothing more nothing less. 

 Just a suggestion, dont waste your time on this bogus posted.  I don't have schematic which I already posted on the other thread before, No video  only poor people here dude, just understand maybe if I really wanted to post a Video you the first 1 that I will let to know.

Like always Tk said; It is so simple that you'll laught. well yeah.

Dear Stupify12.

I really don't understand you: you look knowing very well how EM/EM O.U. should function, how to make it, even to the point to tell others how to do, BUT still you were not able to answer my simple question I ask you now for the third time: HAVE YOU TRIED YOURSELF WHAT YOU ADVISE, AND WITH SUCCESS? AND IF "YES", WHERE ARE THE SCHEMATICS, THE VIDS, ETC? So that we could be sure you're not wasting time of others? :/

Regards.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Khwartz on May 08, 2014, 12:12:30 PM
Thanks for your reply, dear Stupify12.

Could you please refer me to links towards your replications data, especially those which show effectiveness of the "amplification" coil (in term of power) you  have spoken often in your posts? And your details of calculations of COP?

See, here on this website and in other places, tens of thousands of hours have been spend in this quest for Free Energy For Anyone, probably same in terms of dollars for the non professional community, but not so effective results we can actually use. You may have very very good ideas but ones need to evaluate those before to invest his time otherwise could be again a huge waste of time.

Very Nice if you have already acheived the resluts you clame "so simple" (to obtain?). Just would like you could provide or refer FIRST to the results,  so anyone could evaluate the revelancy of your ideas, and then, AND ONLY AFTER, go to discuss with you how you got them and with which theory, intuition, understanding.

True, if you still keep in speeches instead to present cifers and PRECISED data, I will ignore your words very fast until you could present effective results. But if you have, if you can send me to any page you already present them, I will be So Glad, as we are all in the same Quest.

Regards.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on May 08, 2014, 01:34:12 PM
Is a tank capacitor dissipating energy?
Below we have half wave rectification
full wave rectification
then a tank circuit
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on May 08, 2014, 02:53:21 PM
I believe we can gain insight by first completely understanding the basics.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on May 08, 2014, 03:10:31 PM
So when a pos ion meets a neg ion they combine and go neutral this is how static eliminators work.

Does the same happen in our circuits, when pos meets neg is energy consumed,

Is energy being dissipated in the tank circuit.
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on May 08, 2014, 03:31:42 PM
Thought experiments  :)
Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on May 15, 2014, 08:32:03 AM

Power collection (creation of positive charge area) ; something... this dual TL494 thing is highly based on forward EMF...  more info at link; actually a lot of ramblings... had a lot of issues with mosfets conducting backwards...



http://www.overunity.com/14610/akula0083-light-no3-dual-tl494/msg402531/#msg402531


driving L2 causes a extra draw on the positive rail when M1 stops conducting; this also causes L1 to pull from power and push to ground...


L3 pulses to make L2/L1 also draw on the positive rail...



Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: Dave45 on May 16, 2014, 05:29:09 AM
Not really sure what your trying to do.
I did work on your sch. a little  :)

Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on May 16, 2014, 06:03:50 AM
just a sim of another another akula device... http://www.overunity.com/14610/akula0083-light-no3-dual-tl494/#.U3WNnPldV48 (start of thread)

Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on June 02, 2014, 09:50:29 AM



New Simulator; forward, backward and inside out EMF :)


 Falstad Simulator  (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+4.9999999999999996E-6+3.7524723159601+72+5.0+50%0AR+304+144+304+112+0+0+40.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ag+304+448+304+464+0%0Ac+384+224+384+272+0+1.0E-5+-31.06964648225188%0Al+320+224+320+288+0+5.0E-4+-1.5846108963491173E-4%0Aw+304+192+304+224+0%0Aw+304+224+320+224+0%0Aw+304+320+304+288+0%0Aw+320+288+304+288+0%0Aw+304+352+304+384+0%0Aw+384+384+384+336+0%0Aw+384+336+384+272+0%0As+304+144+304+176+0+1+false%0Aw+304+192+304+176+0%0Aw+512+192+512+176+0%0As+512+144+512+176+0+1+false%0Aw+592+336+592+272+0%0Ad+592+336+528+336+1+0.805904783%0Aw+528+288+512+288+0%0Aw+512+224+528+224+0%0Al+528+224+528+288+0+5.0E-4+5.391991669930013E-7%0Ac+592+224+592+272+0+1.0E-5+0.0010093343253286973%0Ag+512+448+512+464+0%0AR+512+144+512+112+0+0+40.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Aw+512+352+512+336+0%0Aw+528+336+512+336+0%0Aw+512+336+512+320+0%0Ag+640+192+672+192+0%0Aw+640+192+592+192+0%0Aw+592+192+592+224+0%0Ad+512+352+512+384+1+0.805904783%0Ac+512+192+464+192+0+1.0E-11+-4.837932221623778%0Aw+464+192+464+144+0%0Aw+464+144+512+144+0%0As+512+416+512+448+0+0+false%0Aw+512+384+512+416+0%0Ac+512+448+464+448+0+1.0E-11+0.001%0Aw+464+448+464+416+0%0Aw+464+416+512+416+0%0Aw+256+144+304+144+0%0Aw+256+192+256+144+0%0Ac+304+192+256+192+0+1.0E-11+-4.960763947492762%0Aw+256+416+304+416+0%0Aw+256+448+256+416+0%0Ac+304+448+256+448+0+1.0E-11+0.001%0Aw+304+416+304+384+0%0As+304+416+304+448+0+0+false%0Aw+512+224+512+192+0%0Aw+752+224+752+192+0%0Aw+704+416+752+416+0%0Aw+704+448+704+416+0%0Ac+752+448+704+448+0+1.0E-11+0.001%0Aw+752+384+752+416+0%0As+752+416+752+448+0+0+false%0Aw+704+144+752+144+0%0Aw+704+192+704+144+0%0Ac+752+192+704+192+0+1.0E-11+-8.962607854223048%0Ad+752+352+752+384+1+0.805904783%0Aw+832+192+832+224+0%0Aw+880+192+832+192+0%0Ag+880+192+912+192+0%0Aw+752+336+752+320+0%0Aw+768+336+752+336+0%0Aw+752+352+752+336+0%0AR+752+144+752+112+0+0+40.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ag+752+448+752+464+0%0Ac+832+224+832+272+0+1.0E-5+9.95428776811933E-4%0Al+768+224+768+288+0+5.0E-4+1.993092396757975E-7%0Aw+752+224+768+224+0%0Aw+768+288+752+288+0%0Aw+832+336+832+272+0%0As+752+144+752+176+0+1+false%0Aw+752+192+752+176+0%0Ad+768+336+832+336+1+0.805904783%0Ag+384+384+384+400+0%0Ar+304+320+304+352+0+1.0%0Ac+272+224+272+288+0+7.5E-11+0.03925469501411905%0Aw+272+288+304+288+0%0Aw+304+224+272+224+0%0Aw+512+224+480+224+0%0Aw+480+288+512+288+0%0Ac+480+224+480+288+0+7.5E-11+2.847279795314961E-4%0Aw+752+224+720+224+0%0Aw+720+288+752+288+0%0Ac+720+224+720+288+0+7.5E-11+1.9686790619477534E-4%0Ar+512+288+512+320+0+1.0%0Ar+752+320+752+288+0+1.0%0Aw+96+224+64+224+0%0Aw+64+288+96+288+0%0Ac+64+224+64+288+0+7.5E-11+0.0172243600293468%0Ar+96+320+96+352+0+1.0%0Ag+176+384+176+400+0%0As+96+416+96+448+0+0+false%0Aw+96+416+96+384+0%0Ac+96+448+48+448+0+1.0E-11+0.001%0Aw+48+448+48+416+0%0Aw+48+416+96+416+0%0Ac+96+192+48+192+0+1.0E-11+-4.982776900562741%0Aw+48+192+48+144+0%0Aw+48+144+96+144+0%0Aw+96+192+96+176+0%0As+96+144+96+176+0+1+false%0Aw+176+336+176+272+0%0Aw+176+384+176+336+0%0Aw+96+352+96+384+0%0Ad+176+224+112+224+1+0.805904783%0Aw+112+288+96+288+0%0Aw+96+320+96+288+0%0Aw+96+224+112+224+0%0Aw+96+192+96+224+0%0Al+112+224+112+288+0+5.0E-4+-1.0723967338319905E-5%0Ac+176+224+176+272+0+1.0E-5+-31.069646482250047%0Ag+96+448+96+464+0%0AR+96+144+96+112+0+0+40.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ad+320+224+384+224+1+0.805904783%0Ax+55+67+120+73+0+24+FEMF%0Ax+254+69+320+75+0+24+BEMF%0Ax+468+66+534+72+0+24+BEMF%0Ax+706+62+771+68+0+24+FEMF%0Ao+110+64+0+35+5.0+0.1+0+-1%0Ao+2+64+0+35+5.0+0.1+1+-1%0Ao+20+64+0+35+5.0+0.1+2+-1%0Ao+65+64+0+35+5.0+0.1+3+-1%0A)


Two switches, one coil  (heh that should be a website)


There's a diode and a cap; The 10uF cap is the target for 'power'.  How much this fills is how much 'spike' EMF causes.  For the rest of this 'tis is 'the cap'. 
I added seriels coil resistance and parallel coil capacitance for its wire so the simulation wouldn't just crash.  I added parallel 10pF capacitance on the switches. 


I dunno I had wondered at one point whether the side the power was on vs the side the switch was on would matter.


The first image is the highest voltages on the cap are shown, and which switch was toggled to get that.


Toggled means I reset the sim, (image 2)
and then closed and opened the switch that is open in image 1; the result of which is image 1...




So one may see a 'high voltage' spike and consider that is what the result to capture is.. but really that voltage is a result of the spring-back... the coil runs into the open switch, fills up the tinycapacitance, which reflects back to the coil....  It's not until the coil is entirely stopped that it can start spinning in the opposite direction... and that entire time it's stopping is what you really want to catch, not what was stored in the capacitance as it hit the wall (the spring absobing impact that returns)


Forward EMF is the 'a body in motion wants to stay in motion' which is why a choke works, because as the current decreases or increases slightly, it's balanced to what the average is ... if a minor change in current caused immediate currrent reversal it'd be a train wreck all over....


I dunno; To use the sim, close both switches, and open one... the resulting effect is not the same.


Title: Re: Forward EMF Collection
Post by: d3x0r on June 02, 2014, 11:02:18 AM
Simplified circuit...
 Falstad sim...  (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+4.9999999999999996E-6+3.7524723159601+67+5.0+50%0AR+320+128+320+96+0+0+40.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ag+320+432+320+448+0%0Ac+400+208+400+256+0+1.0E-5+615.3795806452017%0Al+336+208+336+272+0+5.0E-4+-0.16675666710018922%0Aw+320+176+320+208+0%0Aw+320+208+336+208+0%0Aw+320+304+320+272+0%0Aw+336+272+320+272+0%0Aw+320+336+320+368+0%0Aw+400+368+400+320+0%0Aw+400+320+400+256+0%0As+320+128+320+160+0+1+false%0Aw+320+176+320+160+0%0Aw+528+176+528+160+0%0As+528+128+528+160+0+0+false%0Aw+608+320+608+256+0%0Ad+608+320+544+320+1+0.805904783%0Aw+544+272+528+272+0%0Aw+528+208+544+208+0%0Al+544+208+544+272+0+5.0E-4+0.08128648959024432%0Ac+608+208+608+256+0+1.0E-5+935.0670820198989%0AR+528+128+528+96+0+0+40.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Aw+528+336+528+320+0%0Aw+544+320+528+320+0%0Aw+528+320+528+304+0%0Aw+656+176+608+176+0%0Aw+608+176+608+208+0%0Ac+528+176+480+176+0+1.0E-11+0.0%0Aw+480+176+480+128+0%0Aw+480+128+528+128+0%0As+528+400+528+432+0+1+false%0Aw+528+368+528+400+0%0Ac+528+432+480+432+0+1.0E-11+876.232157698106%0Aw+480+432+480+400+0%0Aw+480+400+528+400+0%0Aw+272+128+320+128+0%0Aw+272+176+272+128+0%0Ac+320+176+272+176+0+1.0E-11+447.88793578559734%0Aw+272+400+320+400+0%0Aw+272+432+272+400+0%0Ac+320+432+272+432+0+1.0E-11+0.0%0Aw+320+400+320+368+0%0As+320+400+320+432+0+0+false%0Aw+528+208+528+176+0%0Aw+720+400+768+400+0%0Aw+720+432+720+400+0%0Ac+768+432+720+432+0+1.0E-11+-120.47182286770219%0Aw+768+368+768+400+0%0As+768+400+768+432+0+1+false%0Aw+720+128+768+128+0%0Aw+720+176+720+128+0%0Ac+768+176+720+176+0+1.0E-11+0.0%0Aw+848+176+848+208+0%0Aw+768+320+768+304+0%0Aw+784+320+768+320+0%0Aw+768+336+768+320+0%0AR+768+128+768+96+0+0+40.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ag+768+432+768+448+0%0Ac+848+208+848+256+0+1.0E-5+-628.6727568630928%0Al+784+208+784+272+0+5.0E-4+0.15682043611116114%0Aw+768+208+784+208+0%0Aw+784+272+768+272+0%0Aw+848+320+848+256+0%0As+768+128+768+160+0+0+false%0Aw+768+176+768+160+0%0Ad+784+320+848+320+1+0.805904783%0Ag+400+368+400+384+0%0Ac+288+208+288+272+0+7.5E-11+452.88793578559734%0Aw+288+272+320+272+0%0Aw+320+208+288+208+0%0Aw+528+208+496+208+0%0Aw+496+272+528+272+0%0Ac+496+208+496+272+0+7.5E-11+881.232157698106%0Aw+736+272+768+272+0%0Ac+736+208+736+272+0+7.5E-11+-115.47182286770219%0Aw+112+208+80+208+0%0Aw+80+272+112+272+0%0Ac+80+208+80+272+0+7.5E-11+-252.93331316415447%0Ag+192+368+192+384+0%0As+112+400+112+432+0+0+false%0Aw+112+400+112+368+0%0Ac+112+432+64+432+0+1.0E-11+0.0%0Aw+64+432+64+400+0%0Aw+64+400+112+400+0%0Ac+112+176+64+176+0+1.0E-11+-257.93331316415447%0Aw+64+176+64+128+0%0Aw+64+128+112+128+0%0Aw+112+176+112+160+0%0As+112+128+112+160+0+1+false%0Aw+192+320+192+256+0%0Aw+192+368+192+320+0%0Aw+112+336+112+368+0%0Ad+192+208+128+208+1+0.805904783%0Aw+128+272+112+272+0%0Aw+112+304+112+272+0%0Aw+112+208+128+208+0%0Aw+112+176+112+208+0%0Al+128+208+128+272+0+5.0E-4+0.04437975988501197%0Ac+192+208+192+256+0+1.0E-5+-660.1626158937354%0Ag+112+432+112+448+0%0AR+112+128+112+96+0+0+40.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ad+336+208+400+208+1+0.805904783%0Ax+71+51+136+57+0+24+FEMF%0Ax+270+53+336+59+0+24+BEMF%0Ax+484+50+550+56+0+24+BEMF%0Ax+722+46+787+52+0+24+FEMF%0Ax+141+157+193+163+0+24+SW1%0Ax+140+430+192+436+0+24+SW2%0Aw+528+336+528+368+0%0Aw+848+176+896+176+0%0Ag+896+176+896+208+0%0Aw+768+208+736+208+0%0Aw+768+304+768+272+0%0Aw+768+176+768+208+0%0Aw+768+368+768+336+0%0Ag+656+176+656+208+0%0Aw+528+304+528+272+0%0Ag+528+432+528+464+0%0Aw+320+336+320+304+0%0Aw+112+336+112+304+0%0Ao+98+64+0+291+1280.0+9.765625E-5+0+-1%0Ao+2+64+0+291+640.0+9.765625E-5+1+-1%0Ao+20+64+0+291+1280.0+9.765625E-5+2+-1%0Ao+58+64+0+291+640.0+9.765625E-5+3+-1%0Ao+46+64+0+291+640.0+0.025+4+-1%0Ao+59+64+0+291+640.0+1.6+5+-1%0Ao+32+64+0+291+10240.0+0.4+6+-1%0Ao+65+64+0+291+1280.0+9.765625E-5+7+-1%0Ao+19+64+0+35+10240.0+3.2+8+-1%0A)


 you can collect either positive or negative delta... one is an extra loss because it goes through resistances twice...