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Author Topic: Forward EMF Collection  (Read 27475 times)

Offline d3x0r

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Forward EMF Collection
« on: December 20, 2013, 07:57:07 AM »



Falstad sim

started with lots of switches to just change currents...
ended up duplicating the loop; and for a while cross wiring the load which stopped convergence failures.

This will eventually 'convergence failed' which is really a over voltage/over curernt sort of condition.

The switch time of the mosfet is at absolute maximum stress; that has to be healthy :)
Hmm maybe a spark gap is better there.

1) the current changes are not really going to be useful for inductive purposes...
2) continuous circulating monodirectional fields... any use?

Just diodes around the coil to absorb the forward EMF...

some tuning with resonanances may have resonant rise characteristics.

The circuit is fairly lossy probably only 60% available load

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Forward EMF Collection
« on: December 20, 2013, 07:57:07 AM »

Dave45

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2014, 02:07:16 PM »
 Quote from: Dave45 on February 05, 2014, 09:37:53 AM<blockquote>Not really we can have high voltage without current and hi current without voltage, neither can do work without the other, its a combination of both.
</blockquote>Current still doesn't reverse; if it did, added negative particles to positive wouldn't help ... your current arrows are indicating electrons moving towards positive; wouldn't happen... and if it did, it's not what would be wanted; would defeat charging of a cap that was used instead of a battery....


'sides your current is going opposed to the diode... wouldn't even reach the charge battery.  (http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/dlattach/attach/133046/image//)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought I would bring it over here so I dont distract in the other thread, you say the diode is wrong but the diode gives an indication of the polarity of the bemf, voltage runs with the diode arrow and amperage runs against it, the direction of the diode shows us the collapsing magnetic field has a pos polarity.

Now Im not saying this information is fact I am entertaining a theory, I have stated this before, in air purifiers the neg electrode accumulates a pos ion cloud and the pos electrode accumulates a neg ion cloud.

With this in mind would a neg pulsed coil accumulate a pos ion cloud if so then when the magnetic field collapses would the polarity of that field be pos, it would seem so by our experiments.

With the purifier example in mind if we could pulse a coil with pos energy it would accumulate a neg ion field (cloud) and when it collapsed would the polarity be neg instead of pos, the only way I see to pulse a coil with pos energy is to exactly what V8carlos did, he ran the bemf from one coil into another coil, pure genius.
I havent built his experiment yet but intend to soon.

I think we need to keep in mind when we build a magnetic field that field also has an electric component that runs 90 degrees to the magnetic field, can that fields polarity be changed.
The electric component of the two fields is what we need to study, Everyone admits that the electric field runs 90 degrees to the magnetic but then it is ignored.



Dave45

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2014, 02:11:53 PM »
Here's the electric field of a solenoid running exactly where its suppose to 90 degrees to the magnetic field, this is the field that collapses into the coil. The question is can this fields polarity be changed.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2014, 02:11:53 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2014, 02:36:24 PM »
I also thought I would bring this up Carlos not only ran the bemf into another coil but notice the direction, pulsing neg energy from one side and pos energy from the other, this keeps both going in the direction the system requires.

Another thing if you study the coils, the position and orientation of the diode would let the two coils ring back and forth, it will pass the pos bemf from the neg pulsed coil and it will pass the neg bemf from the pos pulsed coil back and forth using a single diode.

The bemf can and will run back to either pos or neg of the battery if there is no suppression of some kind it will run back and destroy the driver this tells us it will run to neg or pos, because it is routed back to the pos does not mean its polarity is neg, the direction it passes through the diode gives and indication of its polarity.






Dave45

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2014, 04:04:02 PM »
I taken the directions a bit further who says it has to run back to the batterie it would seem as indicated it can be injected back into the circuit.
The same could be true for Carlos's circuit it could be running into the pos side of the caps.


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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2014, 04:04:02 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2014, 04:21:56 PM »
This method is excellent ! Dave I have some problems with realizing how BEMF and electrons could flow in that circuit  :-\  Can you draw it in two pictures like on other example ? Thank You!

Dave45

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2014, 04:51:24 PM »
This method is excellent ! Dave I have some problems with realizing how BEMF and electrons could flow in that circuit  :-\  Can you draw it in two pictures like on other example ? Thank You!
I'll try, this is the back and forth ringing.

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2014, 04:51:24 PM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2014, 05:09:00 PM »


I thought I would bring it over here so I dont distract in the other thread, you say the diode is wrong but the diode gives an indication of the polarity of the bemf, voltage runs with the diode arrow and amperage runs against it, the direction of the diode shows us the collapsing magnetic field has a pos polarity.

no I said your arrow was wrong.


Now Im not saying this information is fact I am entertaining a theory, I have stated this
before, in air purifiers the neg electrode accumulates a pos ion cloud and the pos electrode accumulates a neg ion cloud.

With this in mind would a neg pulsed coil accumulate a pos ion cloud if so then when the magnetic field collapses would the polarity of that field be pos, it would seem so by our experiments.

With the purifier example in mind if we could pulse a coil with pos energy it would accumulate a neg ion field (cloud) and when it collapsed would the polarity be neg instead of pos, the only way I see to pulse a coil with pos energy is to exactly what V8carlos did, he ran the bemf from one coil into another coil, pure genius.
I havent built his experiment yet but intend to soon.

I think we need to keep in mind when we build a magnetic field that field also has an electric component that runs 90 degrees to the magnetic field, can that fields polarity be changed.
The electric component of the two fields is what we need to study, Everyone admits that the electric field runs 90 degrees to the magnetic but then it is ignored.
I don't know how you're differentiating 'pos' energy from 'neg' energy...  and it depends on which end you're taking the power off; and it depends if it's a coil responding to the induction of another coil or the coil itself as in the schematic you showed...

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2014, 05:12:28 PM »
I'll try, this is the back and forth ringing.
Your arrows are going against the diode again....

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2014, 05:12:28 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2014, 05:20:23 PM »
I was wondering when you would wake up  ;D just kidding

The first pic in the series is supposed to be showing the current through the coil not the diode, I made the pics in a hurry, working on my house today.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2014, 05:22:07 PM »
I was wondering when you would wake up  ;D just kidding

The first pic in the series is supposed to be showing the current through the coil not the diode, I made the pics in a hurry, working on my house today.
It's the second stage that has the error... (I added a revised image as an edit to the prior message)

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2014, 05:22:07 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2014, 06:32:12 PM »
The second image shows the collapsing pos field moving through the diode, its pos so moves through the diode in the voltage direction, this shows us the field has a pos polarity, if the backspike had a neg polarity the diode would have to be reversed.

This is the whole reason for the freewheeling diode to reroute the backspike away from the driver, by its orientation we can see the collapsing field is pos.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2014, 08:50:58 PM »
The second image shows the collapsing pos field moving through the diode, its pos so moves through the diode in the voltage direction, this shows us the field has a pos polarity, if the backspike had a neg polarity the diode would have to be reversed.

This is the whole reason for the freewheeling diode to reroute the backspike away from the driver, by its orientation we can see the collapsing field is pos.
not really; you can keep the same notation of negative current and negative current...  why confuse it with two different notations of current?
the electron motion will still be in the same direction;

Dave45

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2014, 11:11:54 PM »
If we pulse a coil and catch the bemf we get pos energy - cold current - pure voltage Iv heard it called many names but it has no use, well it can be collected in a cap and used but if we use that pos energy to pulse a coil the bemf from the pos pulse should be neg current and that we can use, besides the fact that Carlos's circuit lets the primary ring back and forth.

Its just an idea a train of thought the pos and neg cloud accumulation on the electrodes of the air purifier is what brought it on, if we want to collect energy from the ambient we have to study it.

I have most of the parts needed to try Carlos's circuit, I have to order some caps then I will give it a shot.

all the best
dave

Evil prevails when good men do nothing

Offline totoalas

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Re: Forward EMF Collection
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 09:20:48 AM »
try to connect the earth to the core :)

 

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