Author Topic: An interesting phenomenon I found (Read 36595 times)

xenophed · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2014, 05:45:11 AM »

I agree and apologize I know that the world has spent 100+ years looking for what someone else already done that whole relearning thing is old. Dr. Tesla did leave bread crumbs and they all pointed to Tariel Kapanadze where he achieved OU and others but they all have one thing in common driving the coil out of phase at resonance. That is all I have done but without the spark gaps. To tell you the truth I did nothing new just relearned what was already been done.

e2matrix · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2014, 06:11:41 AM »

That's great that you have done this without spark gaps as I think spark gaps tend to generate some harmful stuff unless they are very well shielded. BTW xenophed do you know if those welding rods have Thorium in them? For the time being I'm looking at winding some unknown and rather strange metal (I have some idea or hope that it may be high perm material like what is used for Metglas cores) around some copper tubing for a start on this (until I get some welding rods if this doesn't work). I don't know where this metal sort of tape came from or how I came about it but it is shiny on one side and dull on the other side, about 1" wide and very sharp (easy to cut yourself on the edges), very strong and is strongly attracted by a magnet. It does not have any stickiness to it so it's not something that was used as a tape. If anyone has any ideas what it is please let me know. Pics below (one with camera flash and one without) :

Farmhand · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2014, 09:03:14 AM »

Quote from: e2matrix on February 11, 2014, 05:44:42 AM

Thanks for your concern MileHigh but I think there are probably a nearly infinite amount of variations on just a 'transformer concept' alone so I'm all for trying some new things. I'm still amazed by the simple setup where I can power an LED by putting a wire on each end of a screwdriver which is put through a copper tube with a single cut along the side and that tube surrounded by some ferrite. Small amount of AC power applied on opposite sides of the split in the copper tube (but it is still all one piece). When you get the right frequency it really lights up. There is nothing I need to buy to try xenophed's setup except welding rods (if my other idea doesn't work) so no big loss here.

That's a transformer, a primary is one piece and a secondary is one piece. The spit copper tube is the primary and the screwdriver the secondary.

.

Farmhand · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2014, 09:12:19 AM »

Quote from: xenophed on February 11, 2014, 05:45:11 AM

I agree and apologize I know that the world has spent 100+ years looking for what someone else already done that whole relearning thing is old. Dr. Tesla did leave bread crumbs and they all pointed to Tariel Kapanadze where he achieved OU and others but they all have one thing in common driving the coil out of phase at resonance. That is all I have done but without the spark gaps. To tell you the truth I did nothing new just relearned what was already been done.

So you are saying for sure you know Tariel is not a faker and he has achieved OU. And yet not one successful replication that has not been shown to be faked, not that I know of anyway.

On wire power transmission with a natural medium return is nothing special. Nor is it OU. But if you can show it to be OU I may well believe it.

Two Receivers and Armstrong Oscillator Transmitter. Easy as eating pie. Notice the continuous sine wave output. No spikes. THe scope is not directly connected to the device the waveform is picked up by the probe remotely so the voltage shown means nothing , only the wave form is what I needed to see to tune it well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJd8TNC75AI

Up to 150 volts in the primary tank and a whole bunch of current there as well. Many watts in the tank. At 3:00 mins in and near the end of the video I scope the primary coil of the transmitter.

..

P.S. If I was to build one 15 meters across the secondary, the oscillating power would be enormous.

..

Dave45 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2014, 11:47:44 AM »

Why I think this circuit has merit.
We are starting to see what these circuits have in common.

Dave45 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2014, 12:00:52 PM »

I would be curious to see if placing a diode here would help, or hinder. There may be more here than meets the eye.
He is using bipolar transistors, right.

dieter · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2014, 12:03:08 PM »

It wasn't about one wire transmission being something special, just the lack of a 2nd pole of the output.

What you (naysayers) quickly seem to miss is, that we have certain conditions here that are far from conventional thinking: a flipflop that utilizes the bemf to be added to an alternating resonance, causing high stresses when the standing waves collapse and recombine mirrored in a speed that's forced by an easy driver induction, resulting in pseudo AC that is forced into that one wire (where some capacity must exist, most likely in C 1 and C2).

Interesting that other people had similar things experienced, with resonant coils at electrical power levels

Please give some specific details, I believe many people would immediately help you to verify this by replication.

Again the coils, one of you, please specify, I read in the blog they are trifilar, later it says 8 wireends... wtf.

I also don't see how the 6 or 8 ends are connected in the cirquit since on the diagram each coil has only 2 ends.

Size of the coils, wire diameter, number of turns, diameter of core. Capacity of C, just roughly the dimension, and what L3 exactly is.

I had some time to test and confirm this, but I won't start without specfic details.

I have no pair of pnp and npns around (and had to drive 2 hours to buy some), but I've got a pair of lm741 op amps, silly question, could I use them instead?

And is there a link to that sparkgap version? I have a 3vdc>1500vdc stepup element from a mosquito killer, so I could do some tests without the transistors.
How would such a sparkgap flipflop look?
Anyhow, back to the topic.

Dave45 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2014, 12:20:32 PM »

Im sorry xenophed for altering your schematic Im just wondering if Q2 is even needed with the diode in the circuit.
Gonna have to build it to find out I guess.
Thank you
dave

xenophed · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2014, 01:34:50 PM »

Not the same the secondary coil you attach the two inside wires together bifilar coil 50X greater potential. leaves 4 wires on two primary coils when we charge first coil it induces a opposite field in second (by means of induction) the transistor is then switched off and the other tuned on I do not fight the collapse BUT amplify it the hookup on this coil MUST BE OPPOSITE the first this can be checked by applying power one way you will drop 100~150% power use no load maybe this print will make it easier to understand

Dave45 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2014, 02:03:51 PM »

Im sorry I do not understand, your saying bifilar but I see no bifilar in your schematic, do you mean like this?

MileHigh · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2014, 02:12:12 PM »

I note that people are expressing the same old themes about resonance and attributing something special to it. It's a mistake and that mistake has been proven over and over right on this forum. Then you have the belief that somehow this circuit is "unconventional" when again, this is not true. Nor are there any standing waves, that's just another buzz word that people throw around. Thinking that the core material makes a difference and is part of the "recipe" for over unity is also a mistake.

In looking at this circuit it appears that Q1 and Q2 and the L and C components around them form an oscillator that is powered by the battery. L3 simply taps into the output of that oscillator and drives a load.

That's all there is to it. If you measure properly you will not find any over unity.

Beyond that, what people really should do in cases like this is probe the circuit with an oscilloscope and construct a timing diagram that shows all of the voltages and currents in the circuit. Then you undertake to understand how each and every signal interacts such that you understand exactly how the oscillator works.

I put it in bold because nobody ever does it but it must be done if you truly want to understand what is going in. You just need a pencil and some graph paper and do it by hand if need be. You do that and all the old cliches and buzz words will fall by the wayside and you will truly understand how the oscillator is working. If nobody does that you can end up spinning your wheels for months and months and get nowhere fast. That's what has been going on on the various Tariel threads for years.

MileHigh

xenophed · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2014, 02:55:50 PM »

Think of it this way if I take two buckets and fill one with water and raise it above the other then the results would be that the water would drain into the other bucket. Now let us say that before the source bucket is empty we raise the other it would reverse and become the source bucket. The work performed is the raising of the bucket the result would be the constant flow of water. We can do the same with the coils by charging one we build a field in both but once we stop charging it the field reverses and we do not fight this we amplify it we let the other collapsing coil do the work of building the field in the second with a little help from the transistor BUT this only works at resonance of the primary coils hence why they must use larger gauge wire( lower resonance frequency ) it really is that simple to understand the field will be about 80%~90% greater thus greater induction into the secondary windings. I induce more current from the primaries to the secondary by phase shifting by 180 degrees the two primary coils where the one collapses the collapse is the charge direction of the other primary coil (as a side note the two coils have a capacitance that can be read with a lcr meter)

Dave45 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 11, 2014, 02:56:04 PM »

Quote from: MileHigh on February 11, 2014, 02:12:12 PM

I note that people are expressing the same old themes about resonance and attributing something special to it. It's a mistake and that mistake has been proven over and over right on this forum. Then you have the belief that somehow this circuit is "unconventional" when again, this is not true. Nor are there any standing waves, that's just another buzz word that people throw around. Thinking that the core material makes a difference and is part of the "recipe" for over unity is also a mistake.

In looking at this circuit it appears that Q1 and Q2 and the L and C components around them form an oscillator that is powered by the battery. L3 simply taps into the output of that oscillator and drives a load.

That's all there is to it. If you measure properly you will not find any over unity.

Beyond that, what people really should do in cases like this is probe the circuit with an oscilloscope and construct a timing diagram that shows all of the voltages and currents in the circuit. Then you undertake to understand how each and every signal interacts such that you understand exactly how the oscillator works.

I put it in bold because nobody ever does it but it must be done if you truly want to understand what is going in. You just need a pencil and some graph paper and do it by hand if need be. You do that and all the old cliches and buzz words will fall by the wayside and you will truly understand how the oscillator is working. If nobody does that you can end up spinning your wheels for months and months and get nowhere fast. That's what has been going on on the various Tariel threads for years.

MileHigh

Maybe if you build it you can show us Pin and Pout, if not your just blowin smoke.
Someone who has not built the circuit and tested it for himself is not anymore believable than the one that has built the circuit and says there's more out than in.
If two or more build the circuit then we have confirmation one way or the other, but just going from thread to thread knocking every circuit they see and not building anything in my opinion is trolling.

MileHigh · « **Reply #28 on:** February 11, 2014, 03:45:48 PM »

Xenophed:

Quote

Think of it this way if I take two buckets and fill one with water and raise it above the other then the results would be that the water would drain into the other bucket. Now let us say that before the source bucket is empty we raise the other it would reverse and become the source bucket. The work performed is the raising of the bucket the result would be the constant flow of water. We can do the same with the coils by charging one we build a field in both but once we stop charging it the field reverses and we do not fight this we amplify it we let the other collapsing coil do the work of building the field in the second with a little help from the transistor BUT this only works at resonance of the primary coils hence why they must use larger gauge wire( lower resonance frequency ) it really is that simple to understand the field will be about 80%~90% greater thus greater induction into the secondary windings. I induce more current from the primaries to the secondary by phase shifting by 180 degrees the two primary coils where the one collapses the collapse is the charge direction of the other primary coil (as a side note the two coils have a capacitance that can be read with a lcr meter)

If you believe that you have a handle on what's going on in the circuit then please draw out a timing diagram for it and post it for people to have a look at. Please show how the phase shift works. Add traces for the amount of energy in each coil or whatever you want to do to explain how your circuit works.

Dave45:

It's not up to me to show Pin and Pout, the burden of proof for those things rests with Xenophed. All that you have to do is look at the track record for previous circuits that are quite similar on this very forum to see a pattern. They always end up not working as claimed even through the person making the claim can be totally sincere.

What is unfortunate is that people refuse to stand back and take a "meta view" for cases like this. That view is that no matter what your circuit is based on any combination of resistors, transistors, coils, capacitors and transformers, you will never get more energy out than in because each individual component cannot give you more energy out than in and combining them together is not going to extract some "unknown energy source." It might be a bitter pill to swallow but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't look elsewhere for over unity or you can't play with circuits just for the fun of it.

These kinds of circuits are a dead end. Please don't shoot the messenger. If you believe otherwise, then go for it. Constructing a timing diagram for these types of circuits is of paramount importance. The verbal descriptions simply don't cut it and are ultimately form a kind of "communication fog" where people talk past each other in vague generalizations and both parties agree that they are saying something valid when it's not the case. If you believe that you understand how a circuit works then draw out the timing diagram on paper for real, and then see if you can verify it with your scope.

MileHigh

xenophed · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2014, 05:03:37 PM »

maybe this will help

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