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New theories about free energy systems => The Aether => Topic started by: hartiberlin on August 17, 2006, 10:10:54 PM
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Hi All,
I watched yeasterday a TV documentation about Telekinese
forces, where 2 Russians could move things with their
mind forces.
One Russian woman could move things with her mind forces
on a table and another Russian man could switch on and off
lights via his mind.
You can see it in the attached video. Youz must be logged into the forum to
download the attached video.
So what kind of forces do they use to do these telekinese effects ?
Has anybody studied these forces and how can they be produced
by machines ?
Regards, Stefan.
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Hi Stefan,
Gyorgy Egely of Hungary made some tests in the '80s on similar topics and you can see and download his book here in English:
http://www.ambro.hu/borze/egely/konyvek2.htm#Downloadable
See these two files:
Experimental investigation of biologically induced energy transport anomalies and
Experimental investigation of biologically induced magnetic anomalies
Mr Egely developed an instrument for measuring so called "bioenergy" of individual persons and called it Egely Wheel Vitality Meter. See this link in English and the same link in German:
http://www.ambro.hu/borze/egely/index2.htm
http://www.ambro.hu/borze/egely/index3.htm
Of course I do not want to make any advertisement pro and con the Egely Wheel I do not know its real working principle. (Independent testers of the wheel have questioned whether the wheel really rotates by "bioenergy" coming from the hand.)
Regards
Gyula
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New Resonant Bivacuum Mediated
Interaction, as a Possible Explanation of Psi Phenomena
SUMMARY
The coherent physical theory of Psi phenomena, like remote vision, telepathy, telekinesis,
remote healing, clairvoyance - is absent till now due to its high complexity and multilateral
character.
The mechanism of Bivacuum mediated Psi - phenomena is proposed in this work. It is based
on many stages of my long term efforts, including creation of few new theories:
1) Unified theory of Bivacuum, rest mass and charge origination, fusion of elementary
particles (electrons, protons, neutrons, photons, etc.) from certain number of sub-elementary
fermions and dynamic mechanism of their corpuscle-wave [C - W] duality
(http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0207027);
2) Quantitative Hierarchic theory of liquids and solids, verified on examples of water and ice
by special, theory based, computer program (http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0102086);
3) Hierarchic model of consciousness: from mesoscopic Bose condensation (mBC) to
synaptic reorganization (http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0003045);
4) Theory of primary Virtual Replica (VR) of material objects in Bivacuum and VR
Multiplication: VRM (r,t). The VR represents a three-dimensional (3D) superposition of
Bivacuum virtual standing waves VPWm  and VirSWm1/2, modulated by C  Wpulsation
of elementary particles and translational and librational de Broglie waves of molecules of
macroscopic object (http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0207027). The infinitive multiplication of
primary VR in space in form of 3D packets of virtual standing waves: VRM(r), is a result
of interference of all pervading external coherent basic reference waves - Bivacuum Virtual
Pressure Waves (VPWq1
 ) and Virtual Spin Waves (VirSWq1
1/2) with similar waves,
forming primary VR. This phenomena may stand for remote vision of psychic. The ability
of enough complex system of VRM(t) to self-organization in nonequilibrium conditions,
make it possible multiplication of VR not only in space but as well, in time in both time
direction - positive (evolution) and negative (devolution). The feedback reaction between
most probable/stable VRM(t) and nerve system of psychic, including visual centers of brain,
can by responsible for clairvoyance;
5) Theory of nonlocal Virtual Guides (VirGSME) of spin, momentum and energy,
representing virtual microtubules with properties of quasi one-dimensional virtual Bose
condensate, constructed from ?head-to-tail? polymerized Bivacuum bosons (BVB) or
Cooper pairs of Bivacuum fermions (BVFï‚»). The bundles of VirGSME, connecting coherent
atoms of Sender (S) and Receiver (S), as well as nonlocal component of VRM(r,t),
determined by interference pattern of Virtual Spin Waves, are responsible for nonlocal weak
interaction, telekinesis, telepathy and remote healing;
6) Theory of Bivacuum Mediated Interaction (BMI as a new fundamental interaction due to
superposition of Virtual replicas of Sender and Receiver, because of VRM(r,t) mechanism,
and connection of their coherent atoms via VirGSME bundles. Just BMI is responsible for
remote ultraweak nonlocal interaction and different psi-phenomena. The system: [S  R]
should be in nonequilibrium state.
The correctness of our approach follows from its ability to explain a lot of unconventional
experimental data, like Kozyrev ones, remote genetic transmutation, remote vision,
mind-matter interaction, etc. without contradictions with fundamental laws of nature. For
details see: http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0103031.
I have this from Los Alamos National Library. It is quite heavy stuff like "baking your own bread in five steps"....
Link: http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0003/0003044.pdf
Greetz, Pontifex
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Hi Perpetualmotionman
Agree it is not magic, it is something we all have inside, because we are all spirit and do the human life experience for many reasons, hence why we all here!.
I like to mix technology with spiritualism, but tend to steer a little away from mixing the two publicly, because of respect of others opinions and believes.
Bit like mixing streamline scientists with a bunch of mad scientists as such in these forums!!
I am not a Religous person as do not agree with using fear to rule others, bit like the MIB using fear to supress these great ideas people are coming up with around the world.
Over many, many years of studying Physical mediumship personally as well as many mediumystic areas, there is so much evidence over the last 100 years, backed up by scientific papers, but will the world wake up?, nope probably not because there would be no point being here if there was all good in the world and no bad, no point coming here for the lessons!!!
My conclusion is that there is many hidden energies that we have not even touched on yet and sorry to say Physics and Scientists do not have all the answers.
And when they do, they get supressed. So this why, with anything in life you should not take books and scientific concepts as proof, but go explore yourself and get your own answers.
Nice to see you mentioning the Chakras and amazing what energies you can tap into by using thought, if peopel would take 5 mins out of their busy lifes.
Regards
Sean.
So what kind of forces do they use to do these telekinese effects ?
Has anybody studied these forces and how can they be produced
by machines ?
Regards, Stefan.
Telekinesis is achieved as a by-product of certain types of energy meditation. Telekinesis can be achieved by opening the third eye chakra. To do this only requires that someone imagines energy going into the third eye on inhale and imagining the energy becoming concentrated and increasing in the third eye on exhale. If one practices this over a long period of time (a few hours a day for a few months) they will eventually start to feel the energy in the third eye. It feels like a electrical/magnetic pulsing and numbness. As one continues the energy becomes stronger and starts to move into the rest of the charkas. Eventually the whole body becomes saturated with this energy and their whole body will become numb when they meditate because of the strong electrical/magnetic forces that are gathered in the body.
To achieve telekinesis takes longer then some other abilities. Energy sensitivity was the first ability that I experienced from meditation. This means that one can feel magnetic fields. It?s kind of like how sharks are able to sense electromagnetic field of fish underneath the sand.
Even Psychic abilities are not limitless. If someone had the ability to move an object using telekinesis they could not just move large objects endlessly all day long. The amount of energy that a psychic has is determined by the strength and energy holding capacity of their physical and etheric double body. The longer a person meditates the more energy they are able to store and use. It is similar to weight lifting and building muscle in a physical body. The longer you lift weights the more weight you are able to lift and the more repetitions you are able to do.
It?s not magic. Same principles apply just a different body and a different kind of strength. From what I can tell the energy seems to be electromagnetic.
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Yet another one bites the dust!!!!!
Why so many people delete their posts????????/
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"I can feel the energy fields (auras) of everything; plants, animals, rocks, minerals, metals, wood and especially strong magnetic fields and high voltage electricity."
I would be interested in seeing a test to prove that...
I know some Buddhist friends in Colorado who claimed they could feel a special field being emmitted from a Lemurian quartz shard they owned. They claimed they each independently felt a slow vibration in it when it touched their skin. I was udderly baffled by this since I don't believe in metaphysics and could not feel the effects they were. So I decided to conduct a skeptics test with each of the 4 friends. I had 4 rocks all similar in shape and weight but all made from different materials. One stone was the Lemurian shard the other three where smokey quarts, celestite, and green Kyanite. Each of the shards was roughly the same size but still easily determined by feel so I asked them to each put there hands out palms down and placed a crystal on the back of each persons hand. Long story short no one could tell if their stone was vibrating or not and they all quickly realized any precieved vibrations or anomalies were all in their heads.
If you are interested in testing your abilities I would suggest having a skeptic test them and try to quantify how accurate you are with predicting wether a electrical/magnetic field is present. The test I would like to see is: start with 5 matching opaque boxes and have your skeptic fiend place a silent living creature (worm/snake/spider) in only one of them. Then all you have to do is pick the right box every time. Or another fun one would be to have a few friends over 4 or more, and then blind fold yourself and ask your friends to randomly select weather they stay in the room or leave but ensure at least one control person is always there. Then you can actively predict weather people are entering or exiting the room as it occurs. Basically I believe if you tried any of these tests you would quickly realize the same thing my friends in Colorado did and that is that the mind is a funny thing...
Good luck with your telekinesis and stuff,
~Dingus
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sorry for replying on such an old topic, but thought i could share some information with anyone who might have an interest with telkineseis.
First for those who dont believe, you should, it is real weather you want to accept it or not and yes you can do it as well. No matter what anyone else may tell you, your hands dont need to be anywhere near the object you want to move (nor any other part of your body for that matter).
I've developed the ability a few years ago, an ugly side effect i've gotten from it...is I now affect the electricity near me weather i like it or not. Weather it be house lights flashing to my monitor flickering whenever im programming or studying.
I dont believe it has anything to do with the energy within the aether itself. The way objects move, so smoothly, its apparent no "outside" forces are pushing it in anyway. I believe the ability is just mentally connecting with the atoms that make up the object itself.
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I actually got somewhere with this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Dc-pqrGCE&feature=related ...but i dunno if it could be used to move objects.
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http://hackersclub.net/Ernest_Holmes_The_Science_of_Mind_1926.pdf
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G'day all,
There was a book in the mid 1970's called Psychic Discoveries behind the Iron Curtain, by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder.
In it were claims about all sorts of things from telepathy to telekinesis, from ufo encounters to pyramid power and so on and so on.
If I remember correctly there was an account of a Czech researcher who had uncovered some shapes that if placed on a pin could be rotated if you thought at them. My memory is vague on the subject after all these years but one thing I do remember, nothing ever came of it.
In the end there was nothing there in spite of tens of thousands of people trying to replicate what they were talking about.
Hans von Lieven
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This chinese medicine master is also doing telekinesis, and many more other feats
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8
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wonderful video alan, thanks for sharing.
The part when he set that fire, did you see his hand was directly in the flame for a near 2 full seconds...think what you may but how he walked alway from that is simply amazing.
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in the end there was nothing there in spite of tens of thousands of people trying to replicate what they were talking about.
Hans von Lieven
Hans you dont need to rely on the results of what "tens of thousands" of other people did. You can discover the proof for yourself. All you need is to truly believe and then take a few hours out of your day to practice. if you honestly try, you will find the truth that none of those other "people" could.
telekinesis is just an ability.
swimming is just an ability.
Grown adults drown every year because they didnt believe they could swim, yet its a well known fact the human body can swim... Dont drown yourself in doubt, Hans von Lieven, you do have the ability.
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G'day all,
There was a book in the mid 1970's called Psychic Discoveries behind the Iron Curtain, by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder.
In it were claims about all sorts of things from telepathy to telekinesis, from ufo encounters to pyramid power and so on and so on.
If I remember correctly there was an account of a Czech researcher who had uncovered some shapes that if placed on a pin could be rotated if you thought at them. My memory is vague on the subject after all these years but one thing I do remember, nothing ever came of it.
In the end there was nothing there in spite of tens of thousands of people trying to replicate what they were talking about.
Hans von Lieven
I have mastered this stuff in a way and it is very dangerous...you could cause thunder rumbles...even teleported tobacco...but that was with the help of a hand and that goes into religion..even make it rain faster...and even stop it...but it takes an awful lot of effort.
Put your finger tips close together pointing each other...can you feel that...that is bio electric.
Oh their is going to be a category 2-3 hurricane near the east coast of the usa...near the georgia state.
I view it this way...we are angels locked inside of a body...this hand of mine is in the other dimension...these dimensions go at the same rate which is instantanous...zpe is instantanous even thought it speeds up and up...instantanous no matter the distance it is the backbone of the universe and is what has created it..also called quantum...the universe is without beginning and is without end...it lasts forever.
It basically deals with the subconcious...if you sang to the sun...it will have some effect...your thoughts do effect it..your body is actually linked to the earth...so if the sun comes out you get a wave of energy coming out but if you sing to the sun and use this back at it...realisticly on a fairly good day the sun will come out.
This stuff takes the utmost concentration..do or do not...there is no try.
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Have a look in the pdf on page 56, a very clever idea to use in china 1981 children with the talent for teleportation, and to watch the kind of changing of the electr.magn. signals from the to be teleported !! transmitter, when it is teleported. In german we would say - das Pferd von hintenrum aufzaeumen, With thuch collected data, perhaps you are as silly as before, but you can reconstruct the way in hypershere ...
published by the Air Force Research Laboratory **
Adobe PDF - View as html... Advanced Research Projects Agency DEC Dominant Energy Condition DIA Defense Intelligence Agency ... Teleportation - psychic: the conveyance of persons or inanimate objects by
www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf
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What follows is my personal opinion . I am saddened to see this topic being discussed on a serious forum such as this It is enough to give overunity a worse name than it already has . As a young man , I wasted much of my time studying the supernatural ,parapsychology and other such Flim Flam . I always wanted to join the Society for Psychic Research , but did not have the money . When I was older and wiser , My daughters gave me the money to join . But then I realised that the society had existed for over 100years , and PROVED NOTHING . You can do Telekinesis? Fine , go and take the James Randi one million dollar prize .Don't need the money ? Give it to charity or use it to convince sceptics like me . THEN I will listen to you .
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It is a good thing thats only your personal opinion because it is COMPLETELY wrong.
I am saddened to see an open minded person who believes overunity exists yet thinks telekinesis doesnt deserve discussion. Your post is the exact reason those BS prizes do nothing but hurt the reality behind natural abilities like telekinesis. Most people like yourself, dont take the time and research those prize challenges or simply read the fine print. To succeed at one of those challenges you have to prove to Them that its real, however its up to Them to decide weather or not they are convinced and in essence only need to find one way in which the person doesnt succeed to disqualify them. I can make paper spin, electronics flicker, and straws wobble back and forth. But i cant make a pencil roll, i bet that would disqualify me.
The James Randi prize itself for several years wasnt available to everyone, only people with a media profile or academic documentation. I see they just opened it back up to the public last month.
On March 8, 2011, the JREF announced that qualifications were being altered to open the Challenge to more applicants. Whereas applicants were previously required to submit press clippings and a letter from an academic institution to qualify, the new rules now require applicants to present either press clippings, an letter from an academic institution, or a public video demonstrating their ability. The JREF explained that these new rules would give people without media or academic documentation a way to be considered for testing, and would allow the JREF to use online video and social media to reach a wider audience.[29]
I'll submit an application but i already know its a fraud. Unlike you, i dont need to see proof to know its real, and i know if i can do it then so can plenty of other people. After all of the years that challenge has been around, if no one has won, its due to the fact that they dont want a winner.
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To succeed at one of those challenges , you have to prove to them that it is real . Your words . Incorrect . If you had read the fine print you would know that you have to prove it to an independent adjudicator acceptable to both parties . You are wriggling like a fish on a hook . OK if you can do telekinesis , complete a simple test for me .Next Saturday night , in the UK lottery , simply manipulate the balls as they fall ,and win the lottery .That way you do not have to convince any awkward adjudicators . I will even let you keep all the prize money .I can not be fairer than that , can I?
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If we cant do that simple thing then hundreds of witnesses lied about Jesus.
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@Nadda .Why not go ahead and apply for the James Randi Prize . You say that the reason the prize has not been won is that "They don't want a winner ." I put it to you that the real reason it has not been won is that no one has demonstrated paranormal abilities . Before you take the test , you will ask to say exactly what you claim you can do . Then , if you show you can do that , no more no less , you win . I do not have a closed mind ,I am willing to be shown . A Youtube video might be a start . My attitude is the same as Randis . "OK , so you can fly by flapping your arms . Come with me to the top window ." @Iota Yoda. There are also witnesses who swear they see fairies at the bottom of the garden , and a lot more recently than 2000 years ago .
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There are also witnesses who swear they see fairies at the bottom of the garden , and a lot more recently than 2000 years
That would probably be in Ireland where they do a lot of drinking. ;D
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james randi spent his life hoaxing people and continues to do so with his "challenge"... ::)
edit: i already posted this video that presents randi's "challenge" in a most illuminating way. in point of fact, if i recall correctly i posted it for neptune when he previously posted his "take randi's challenge" challenge... ::) here it is again for those who haven't looked at the fine print of randi's farce.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE_UzmtUH7g
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To succeed at one of those challenges , you have to prove to them that it is real . Your words . Incorrect . If you had read the fine print you would know that you have to prove it to an independent adjudicator acceptable to both parties . You are wriggling like a fish on a hook . OK if you can do telekinesis , complete a simple test for me .Next Saturday night , in the UK lottery , simply manipulate the balls as they fall ,and win the lottery .That way you do not have to convince any awkward adjudicators . I will even let you keep all the prize money .I can not be fairer than that , can I?
Why would i need to "wriggle" lol? telekinesis is not a strong force and life is not an x-men movie. You simply dont understand how it works. So i will explain it. In the real world, unlike the movies, you cannot turn telekinesis on and turn it off. Once its on, it stays on. It affects all objects of the same weight. In my experience, objects will mimic what im thinking. I control the objects by focusing on my thoughts, and the objects follow along. You see, objects will follow along weather i realize they are or not. Someone could place a piece of paper on a needle behind me right now and it would instantly start spinning. I've done dozens of experiments and even recorded an object that continued to spin after i left the room. Imagine that, an object alone in a room with no air movement spinning back and forth. Furnace off, windows shut, door closed, no air flow. Yet the object moves. A static non biological object with no muscles no energy...all alone, moving. Its Amazing. I only discovered telekinesis was real four years ago. That recording i made was the only video i ever shot and it was two years ago.
You say that the reason the prize has not been won is that "They don't want a winner ." I put it to you that the real reason it has not been won is that no one has demonstrated paranormal abilities.
Your wrong mate. Unfortunately im in a position of greater knowledge here than you are. The challenge has been at 1 million for 15 years, they've gotten so many applications that they have had to require preliminary proof before the challenge begins, I mean the application even has to be notarized lol. I could care less what you choose to believe, i know the truth, and i know millions of other people in the world can do what i can do. To say NONE of the over whelming numbers of applicants that applied were the real deal, especially after going through all that hoopla, has to be nonsense at best.
If i were wealthy i would fly you to a private setting and show you myself, unfortunately im not.
So in the end it doesnt matter to me what you believe, its sad to see someone close their mind when they have the exact same abilities, but none the less i gain nothing of any importance by spending my time convincing you on a forum. What would i gain by encouraging people to practice on their own spare time? What would i gain by spending my time on a forum lying? Its real weather you want to believe it or not. I dont expect you to understand. You havent seen what i have. Its up to you to change that.
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Nadda why don't you take your talent down to the and move the dice or the roulette ball.
keep your winnings under a 1000 bucks a day and you should escape notice.
fritznien
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@Iota Yodi and fritznien .LOL . @Wilby You say Randi spent his life hoaxing people . Indeed he did .He is after all a professional Conjurer . That does not change his other career as an exposer of hoaxes .
@Nadda .It has been said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof . I do not totally discount the remote possibility that you can do what you say . You say that if you were wealthy you could prove it to me .[I am tempted to say you could become wealthy by winning the James Randi Prize , but I think I may have mentioned that previously!] If I claimed to be the son of God , would you believe me ? Proof of anything can be extraordinarily difficult . There are always numerous ways to fake things , remember Mylow? But without proof , we stray into the realm of faith based systems , in other words religion . Religion is the cause of half the wars on earth , oil being the cause of the rest . You say that you can influence electronics . Make a simple circuit of just a coil of wire connected across a microamp meter or even an LED . See if you can cause a current to flow . And Yes I know of several ways to fake that . A final question .You have worked hard to develop your alleged ability . Exactly why did you want this ability? Also , please note that although I may not believe you ,It does not mean that I have anything against you as a person .
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@ neptune, indeed he did. and indeed his "challenge" is a continuation of the same... ::)
regarding your "extraordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence": this is one of the most hopelessly flawed statements ever uttered. carl sagan was a brilliant man, but this statement of his is ludicrous. the problem with this statement is that popular science does not require extraordinary evidence for its extraordinary claims. ie:the big bang theory may be the most extraordinary claim in the history of popular science. here we have an idea that can be neatly encapsulated in eight words: "at first, there was nothing...then it exploded." now how can NOTHING explode? big bang theory "defies gravity" and violates innumerable laws of physics, it remains a HYPOTHETICAL mathematical model, yet it is promoted as truth by NASA and institutions of higher learning around the world. why has the mainstream never demanded the same standards of big bang theorists that it does of "paranormal" proponents?
where are the "double-blind tests" validating big bang theory? has big bang theory been tested by the james randi "educational" foundation or other skeptical organizations?
to be more precise, you should say: UNPOPULAR claims require extraordinary evidence. and make no mistake, that is what randi's science is... popular science. ::)
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test
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Life itself is very talented.Living organisms develop methods of surviving.If teleportation is real I would assume some kind of lifeform has attained it.Afterall if you look up insect antigravity on the web,you will find articles on it.Why not teleportation too?triffid
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I did an internet search for insect teleportation and came back full circle to the article that claims chinese children could teleport radios and insects in repeatable experiments. http://www.metatech.org/A06/teleport_teleportation_study.html triffid
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It is good that this discussion moves forward without any flaming .As we go through life , we are constantly bombarded with information . From an early age , we work out that not everything we hear is true . We learn to make choices , based on personal experience . Imagine how life would be if we believed everything we were told . Nadda thought it strange that I could believe in overunity ,but not telekinesis . I was going to say that machines don't lie , but apparently oscilloscopes can .Last night I watched that you tube video , the one where the guy offers 100,000 dollars to anyone who can prove that Randi is not a fake . Well , the only way to do that would be to win the prize .And so, like Randi , he feels his money is safe . So it seems to me that his motive is fame .Nadda asks why would he waste his time coming here to lie .Why did Mylow and Trowoegar , and numerous others ? Why would Nadda spend time developing an ability that by his own admission is dangerous? I would be delighted to learn that telekinesis is real .But my judgement is based on 65 years of life's experience .Until you can show me you might as well claim to be the son of God .Judging by the number of sons he had , god did not believe in birth controll .As ever , more questions than answers , but I live in hope .
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I wish teleportation were real.At least if we could teleport things like water,metals.Think about how different our world would be.Could it be that we already have it?Not on view for the public where it really matters.triffid
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@Triffid .Yes I am sure we all wish it was real , but wishing sadly does not make it so .For those of you who have not worked it out , my initial post on this thread was to stimulate controversy , and lead to further discussion .I have been disappointed with the response .I am also disappointed at the number of people who regard Randi as a fraud . In reading the report by the American Airforce , I was struck by the fact that they allready see Teleportation as a weapon of war , and that is before it has been proved to exist .
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@Triffid .Yes I am sure we all wish it was real , but wishing sadly does not make it so .For those of you who have not worked it out , my initial post on this thread was to stimulate controversy , and lead to further discussion .I have been disappointed with the response .I am also disappointed at the number of people who regard Randi as a fraud . In reading the report by the American Airforce , I was struck by the fact that they allready see Teleportation as a weapon of war , and that is before it has been proved to exist .
well, for the record, i was disappointed with your initial post... using that well worn and oh so flawed "extraordinary claims" platitude. at least you don't believe in imaginary godfaeries.
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@Wilby .Ok then .Let us accept your revised version of the Extraordinary Claims thing , and substitute Unpopular claims . I feel that it amounts to much the same thing . If I claim to be the son of the local street sweeper , you may not ask for much in the way of proof . If I claim to have paranormal abilities , fewer people will take that claim at face value . So if you say that extraordinary proof is not necessary , you might agree that at least ordinary proof would at least be desirable . So far I have not seen any proof at all . Should such proof be forthcoming , I am prepared to judge it on its merits . Be honest . How many people have you met that can perform telekinesis ? I do not have a closed mind , and am willing to be shown .
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@Wilby .Ok then .Let us accept your revised version of the Extraordinary Claims thing , and substitute Unpopular claims . I feel that it amounts to much the same thing . If I claim to be the son of the local street sweeper , you may not ask for much in the way of proof . If I claim to have paranormal abilities , fewer people will take that claim at face value . So if you say that extraordinary proof is not necessary , you might agree that at least ordinary proof would at least be desirable . So far I have not seen any proof at all . Should such proof be forthcoming , I am prepared to judge it on its merits . Be honest . How many people have you met that can perform telekinesis ? I do not have a closed mind , and am willing to be shown .
it does not amount to the same thing. please elucidate how "extraordinary" somehow becomes synonymous with "unpopular". i'll wait. ;) if they did in fact "amount to the same thing" then the jref should have been all over it, with the same zealotry they apply elsewhere. in its time, galileo's thesis was considered quite extraordinary, as was newton's. why should this have been held against them? it's good that you understand that it is only UNPOPULAR claims that fall under this fallacious "extraordinary evidence" umbrella. as i noted earlier, the jref has done nothing to debunk one of the most extraordinary claims ever... nor have they touched on einstein's extraordinary claims, etc. etc. ad infintum, ad nauseam. which leads me to believe that randi is in it for the fame. ;)
ok i'll be honest. the amount of people i have met in relation to the amount of people in the entire world is insignificant... THEREFORE, i cannot, in good conscience, commit a logical fallacy known as a 'biased sample'. not quite the answer you were looking for i'm sure... ;)
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The air force story may be disinformation.I agree that wishing does not make it so BUT flying was a wish for hundreds if not thousands of years and somehow we did it!Besides didn't tesla pave the way for teleportation?
triffid
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The invention of the gun five hundred years ago was remarkable plus the gun has evolved into modern forms from the original.Along the way men have learned to deal with the gun and the issues it brings.If teleportation is being looked at as a weapon Then money and time will be spent to develop it further.Along the way we hopefully will learn how to deal with its use as a weapon.triffid
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@Wilby .No , that was not quite the answer I was looking for .But at least you gave me an answer .Perhaps it is better if we agree to disagree on Randi . I would however agree that we can not discount fame as part of his motivation , and anyway , fame probably comes with the territory . @Triffid .I agree that while wishing does not make it so , wishing is a first step to reaching our goal .We have learned to live [and die] with the gun , but I think we would have been better off without it . I just think it is a shame that people in power , when considering teleportation,see it as a new means of killing people , rather than a force for good .
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@neptune, i pretty much agreed to disagree with you with my first post. ;)
regardless, i would still like to hear your explanation of how extraordinary is synonymous with unpopular. i would also love to hear your thoughts on why the jref has never "investigated" (i use that word because randi doesn't like being called a debunker ::) ) big bang theory. perhaps it is because debunking popular claims would make him unpopular... ;)
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@Wilby .You misinterpreted what I was trying to say .I did not say that extraordinary was synonymous with unpopular . What I said was that if we use the statement that Unpopular claims need extraordinary proof , then the situation amounts to much the same thing . In other words ,whether the claims are extraordinary or unpopular or indeed both , then I would require extraordinary proof .You would have to ask James as to why he has never investigated the big bang theory .I think that he feels that there are more important claims to investigate .As far as I know , no one is being fraudulently parted from their money , by the big bang theory .Everyone has their opinions , and these are mine .Yours may differ .
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@Wilby .You misinterpreted what I was trying to say .I did not say that extraordinary was synonymous with unpopular . What I said was that if we use the statement that Unpopular claims need extraordinary proof , then the situation amounts to much the same thing . In other words ,whether the claims are extraordinary or unpopular or indeed both , then I would require extraordinary proof .You would have to ask James as to why he has never investigated the big bang theory .I think that he feels that there are more important claims to investigate .As far as I know , no one is being fraudulently parted from their money , by the big bang theory .Everyone has their opinions , and these are mine .Yours may differ .
all of this is terribly off topic, but to be honest i am so tired of seeing that phrase bandied about i felt it necessary to rebut it. i've read your posts, i know you can think and you claim to have an open mind, so i am trying to give a little perspective here. my point is that this "extraordinary evidence" stuff is crap, on top of being hypocritical and a double standard... that these most sacred "truths" of popular science are in reality EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS which have never required EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE. since there is no extraordinary evidence for the big bang theory or for general relativity i can assume you consider them to be woo-woo and flim-flam just like telekinesis?
you think no one is fraudulently parted from their money!?!?!? where do you think the money comes from that has gone into big bang theory research? from the sky? from imaginary godfaeries? just who do you think is paying the 9 BILLION for the LHC at CERN??? come on man... ::)
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@Wilby .If you assume that I think that the Big Bang theory is Flim Flam , You assume right . To me , actually , just how the universe started is of little consequence ,compared to some of the problems people face in the world today . You may be right about people being parted from their money .There is not a lot I personally can do about that . What bugs me is people being parted from their money by so-called psychics after they have lost a loved on . I feel that the space race is a waste of money whilst there are still people who go to bed hungry . As I said , these are my views . Others may not share them , and I can respect that .
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The gun put man over the animals who had razor sharp teeth and claws.teleportation would help stamp out hunger and put man on other worlds.So it is a prize that is highly desired.I think we will attain it sooner or later.If we don't have it already.triffid
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@Triffid . You have a valid point re the gun and animals . And as they say , it is not guns that kill people .It is people that kill people .Of course I would welcome teleportation .Life would be so much simpler if someone would invent a foolproof Bulshine detector.
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People need to dust off their braincells and that would result in a lot less bullshines.triffid
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Maybe its the human animal that has developed teleportation.And not insects or any other lifeform.If so then we are on our own with no other guides to help us.That means we will have to stumble around a bit.
triffid
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@Triffid . We have already seen the results of that stumbling . Remember a film called "The Fly" ? ;D
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Teleportation is a name for a singular event but the method to achieving that event is probably plural. A person can transport from one location to another in many different ways, im sure an object could teleport by just as many different means. I also read a portion of that document on teleportation and its very interesting. Invisibilty is not a hard task to accomplish, everything we see in our spectrum exists within specific frequencies, manipulate an objects vibrational frequency beyond our spectrum and you not only transform it from solid to transparent to invisible but you would fundamentally alter the state of its matter and reduce its mass index. Combine that objects altered state of matter with potiential telekinetic force to easily move an effectively weightless object, would appear to be teleportation.
Although the object would essentially teleport, it would still remain within our dimension just simply outside of our eye spectrum. Unlike classical teleportation the object would not be deconstructed one atom at a time, transported beyond our dimension and reconstructed on its arrival to its location instantaneously, it would be different means of transportation and states of matter. It seems to be a direct conflict similar to particle wave theory. This form of altered matter being achieved by wave form instead of particle form. Perhaps both are possible, or exactly the same. The public hasnt figured that one out yet.
Using telekinesis as the driven force to move the altered objects would be relative to some of the effects noted, such as the transportation not being instantaneous, the distance not being great and direction apparently being random. I just re-read a couple of paragraphs of the document, and as of right now im fairly certain this is exactly how it happened. Those effects noted are spot on with what i would expect to see.
@triffid, it has nothing to do with animals, only matter.
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Even if "the fly"had been a true story I would not wreck the lab or the equipment in it.Wrecking the lab was a way to keep the public intertained. I guess teleportation would have a lot to do with the human animal?triffid