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Author Topic: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread  (Read 268005 times)

Offline poynt99

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Here are the links to the re-assembled Power Measurement Basics videos.

Part 1a: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIbQUUp9S9o
Part 1b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH9QYimSO7E

Sorry about the mess-up.

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Offline wings

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for an input wattage of [/size] [/size]We can reduce the input voltage down to 48V once we are in the upper mode (jump resonance) and have tuned for resonance at 6.09 kHz before cuttoff occurs. The input wattage stays constant though (input current increases). Since the phase shift between voltage and current in the tank is less than 90° there is real wattage (heat loss) involved. This [/size] is much greater than the measured input wattage!? What could it mean?[/size]


......
http://www.advanced-science.com/DiodePlugExperiments.html


[/font][/size]

[/font][/size]

Offline verpies

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Here is a relevant video showing reactive power.
Note that at one time the input bulb is off while the output bulb is on, suggesting an infinite O/I power ratio.

P.S.
The light bulb on the input side is not a reliable power indicator, because it does not constitute a load itself and due to MPTT.

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Offline poynt99

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I think what the input bulb IS good for is indicating the amount of current in the primary. If I recall correctly.

Luc was working with a very similar setup a few years ago, and I did a fair bit of analysis of it at that time. I would have to go back to my notes to confirm what I found.

Offline gotoluc

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I think what the input bulb IS good for is indicating the amount of current in the primary. If I recall correctly.

Luc was working with a very similar setup a few years ago, and I did a fair bit of analysis of it at that time. I would have to go back to my notes to confirm what I found.

Yes, this goes back to 2008 when I was experimenting with resonance, titled: "Resonance Effects for Everyone to share"

Luc

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Offline TinselKoala

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If you look closely in the video you can see that the "input" bulb is still glowing very dimly at the resonant point. This means of course that there is still current flowing, at a low level. The voltage, however, rises, so there is still power being supplied to the primary. It would be interesting to see some actual instrumental measurements of current and voltage in the primary and secondary circuits.

Great demonstration, though, thanks for posting it.

Offline MarkE

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When coupled with an available current path through each coil, the inductance of the coupled coils effectively changes from that of the coils when uncoupled.  As you say, it would be revealing to see real measurements of voltage and current on an oscilloscope for both sides of the circuit.

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Offline verpies

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I think what the input bulb IS good for is indicating the amount of current in the primary.
Of course, an input bulb with a straight filament will convert I2R  to heat and light almost perfectly, but current is not power and the bulb will "ignore" power carried by high voltage and low current.

Offline tim123

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Of course, an input bulb with a straight filament will convert I2R  to heat and light almost perfectly, but current is not power and the bulb will "ignore" power carried by high voltage and low current.

Hi Verpies,
 My experience doesn't agree with this... Bulbs show any real power...

I've found I can run an incandescent bulb on the output of a car ignition coil (maybe 5000v, 1000Hz) at 40w, or an MOT (2000v ish), and it's exactly as bright as it is with 40w mains (at 240v AC, 50Hz). Just the same...

Regards, Tim

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Offline gotoluc

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To poynt99 or anyone who wants to take a go at it

I have a toroid which I wound myself in Bifilar on a Ferroxcube toroid core. It is under test connected to a sine wave output of my SG set at 4.33 Mhz.

My 200Mhz DSO scope is set to DC Coupling and I'm using my non Inductive 2 inch long nichrome wire which I adjusted to 0.1 Ohm. Both scope probes are connected in the standard way to measure power. Ch 1 is voltage and Ch 2 is current.

It seems from the scope math that 3.8W is being returned. I have attached both Non Inverted and Inverted of Ch 2 scope shots so not to have another debate on that matter and also many samples of each versions.

I have checked my DSO scope against Thane's Tektronic before returning it to him just to make sure it was accurate and found mine to be better as far as comparing math data between Ch 2 inverting or not. So I don't think this is a scope error.

Let me know what you think

Luc

Offline poynt99

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I would say double check your probe connections and invert settings on both channels of the scope. Maybe your CH1 is already inverted for example.  If those check out, put a diagram up here and double check your connections to that.

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Offline tinman

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I think what the input bulb IS good for is indicating the amount of current in the primary. If I recall correctly.


Offline picowatt

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To poynt99 or anyone who wants to take a go at it

I have a toroid which I wound myself in Bifilar on a Ferroxcube toroid core. It is under test connected to a sine wave output of my SG set at 4.33 Mhz.

My 200Mhz DSO scope is set to DC Coupling and I'm using my non Inductive 2 inch long nichrome wire which I adjusted to 0.1 Ohm. Both scope probes are connected in the standard way to measure power. Ch 1 is voltage and Ch 2 is current.

It seems from the scope math that 3.8W is being returned. I have attached both Non Inverted and Inverted of Ch 2 scope shots so not to have another debate on that matter and also many samples of each versions.

I have checked my DSO scope against Thane's Tektronic before returning it to him just to make sure it was accurate and found mine to be better as far as comparing math data between Ch 2 inverting or not. So I don't think this is a scope error.

Let me know what you think

Luc

Luc,

Are you sure your 2" length of nichrome is "non-inductive"?

I do not know how the nichrome composition would affect the inductance calculations, nor do I know your nichrome wire's actual diameter.

However, a 2" length of .05" copper wire has about 40nH of inductance.

The reactance of 40nH at 4.33MHz is a bit over 1 ohm.

PW

Offline tinman

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I think what the input bulb IS good for is indicating the amount of current in the primary. If I recall correctly.

I dont think they are very good for that at all,infact my experiments show the complete opposite.The effect verpies showed,can be done with a simple pulse motor,where we can get the output bulb to light up bright,while the input bulb remains unlit.And this is not done by haveing the input bulb in series with the drive coil,but having the input bulb in series with the power supply and large cap's. The power to drive the pulse motor then is drawn from the cap's. So any power the motor uses must be a stedy DC flow through the bulb.

Offline tinman

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Looking at the circuit below,how is it possable for G2 to light up brightly,and G1 to remain unlit?.How is the flow of steady DC power through G1 on the p/in side, less than the flow of steady DC power through G2 on the P/out side?.

 

OneLink