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Author Topic: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread  (Read 362173 times)

poynt99

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A good brief review of an AC generator.

http://www.auroragenerators.com/resources/articles/how-stuff-works/29-generator-fundamentals
http://armymunitions.tpub.com/Mm07047/Mm070470067.htm
Brad,

Not shown, but the caps in these generators you and Luc are using are for filtering a rectified AC (produced from a residual magnetic field) in order to produce a crude DC field coil supply?

gotoluc

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Ok,so here is my first test on the reactive generator setup. Please note that this is only to show the effect that the reactive circuit has on the exciter circuit within the generator,and in no way represents accurate measurements of P/in and P/out. It was to show the power already being consumed within the generator itself via the exciter circuit-something that was over looked in other test seen regarding this setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AM_FoUV3Zs

Thanks TinMan for testing the circuit and pointing to the exciter field as the possible source of the effect. I will perform new tests of this kind to better understand the interaction between these two circuits and post my findings.

Thanks for taking the time to do all this excellent replication and sharing your results.

Luc

gotoluc

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That Stefan isn't aware of, nor agrees with my solution to this problem should come as no surprise.

Okay, I shouldn't speak for Stefan

You mean valid topical questions you ignore like this one about your moto/gen setup? Grow some balls Luc. You're not garnering any respect by whining about and ignoring important pertinent questions. OK, admittedly there was deserved hit.  :D
http://www.overunity.com/14106/reactive-power-reactive-generator-research-from-gotoluc-discussion-thread/msg381543/#msg381543
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this.

If I would understand or know what your question is referring to would help the chances of it being answered!


Admittedly, you are learning as you blindly plow forward, but along the way it would benefit you immensely for you to stop and seriously consider everything knowledgeable people are conveying to you. You might not only learn faster, but also get the opportunity to fine tune your experiments in such a way that you reach a conclusion much faster and with more knowledge gained. Like for example when I posted that the MOT was not required to get the same effect, which you ignored.

As for learning!... I do agree that I have learned much as I've been blindly moving forward. However, if I was a knowledgeable person I would not be doing any of this as I would know it all.
So to me one has to make a choice, do we accept the existing technology of burning fossil fuel for over 100 years is the only technology we have to date because the know it all say it is and do nothing about it because they know it all?

What if I decide not to buy the know it all lunch?... then why should I use everything they know if I'm looking for something different?... how would that work?

Sorry if I missed your post the MOT is not needing before Hob pointed it out to me. It could be I chose to come to that conclusion myself and not use the know it all or just missed your post. Can't remember which it was?


Luc

poynt99

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Are you saying that you don't understand this question???

Regarding your moto/gen setup, have you done any load-testing with it at all to determine at what load does the motor rpm begin to decrease an appreciable amount?

In regards to your other comments, sure, dream and explore, but at the same time why cut yourself off from the alternate conventional point of view?

Are you impervious to making errors? I know I am not. When someone with more experience tells me I should re-examine some assertion I've made, do I seriously consider it? Yes. Do I try to prove them wrong if I feel I am still right? Yes. Do I admit when I am wrong? Yes. Do I appreciate it when it turns out I am corrected? Yes.

Are you impervious to being fooled by something you do not understand? I know I am not. I have been fooled several times, but either I immediately corrected it myself, or someone else helped me do so.

Do I take the improbable as being most likely correct? No, not a chance. And no one should, especially in light of evidence presented by others proving otherwise.

gotoluc

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A good brief review of an AC generator.

http://www.auroragenerators.com/resources/articles/how-stuff-works/29-generator-fundamentals
http://armymunitions.tpub.com/Mm07047/Mm070470067.htm
Brad,

Not shown, but the caps in these generators you and Luc are using are for filtering a rectified AC (produced from a residual magnetic field) in order to produce a crude DC field coil supply?

Please note these links are for brushed rotor gen heads and not like the ones TinMan and myself are using. We are using brushless exciter rotor gen heads.

Luc

poynt99

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Please note these links are for brushed rotor gen heads and not like the ones TinMan and myself are using. We are using brushless exciter rotor gen heads.

Luc
How significant is the difference?

Is the principle not very similar?

picowatt

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A good brief review of an AC generator.

http://www.auroragenerators.com/resources/articles/how-stuff-works/29-generator-fundamentals
http://armymunitions.tpub.com/Mm07047/Mm070470067.htm
Brad,

Not shown, but the caps in these generators you and Luc are using are for filtering a rectified AC (produced from a residual magnetic field) in order to produce a crude DC field coil supply?

.99,

The brushless cap regulated units Luc and Tinman are using are not covered in that doc.  The caps in their units actually regulate the voltage by resonating with and varying the phase angles of the exciter windings as load conditions vary.  Some units resonate the exciter at the fundamental, many newer units do so at the third harmonic.

I believe the cap regulated units draw a bit more from the prime mover under no load than required for a given output voltage because the exciter phase must be prepared for application of reactive loads, particularly for motor starting.  Severe loading or certain highly reactive loads applied to a cap regulated unit can cause the exciter phase angles to exceed a maximum and cause the exciter current to collapse with subsequent collapse of the field output . 

The reduction of this no load exciter "excess" is what I suspect is related to the reduction in prime mover loading observed with certain reactive loads applied.  Most reactive loads are inductive, so the gens are set under no load conditions to more ideally operate when inductively loaded. 

Please note that I am in no way an expert on induction motors or generators.  But there is a glimmer of an explanation in the above somewhere.

It would be interesting if the experimenters could find the schematics for their respective gen models.

PW.     




poynt99

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Thanks PW. You posted while I was asking for an explanation from Luc.

I am not an expert in motors/generators either. Interesting modus operandi which no doubt must make analysis and the cause-effect relationship a tad more complicated.

Cap-Z-ro

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How significant is the difference?

Is the principle not very similar?


Oh joy, a few more rabbit holes laid out before us to explore...wonder if there's anything relevant to find down there ?


picowatt

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Thanks PW. You posted while I was asking for an explanation from Luc.

I am not an expert in motors/generators either. Interesting modus operandi which no doubt must make analysis and the cause-effect relationship a tad more complicated.

Way more complicated...

That is why I said earlier that this observed effect would likely be different when using a brushed unit with an EVR (electronic voltage regulator).  There are also brushless units that incorporate an EVR as well, wherein a fixed and rotor mounted pair of windings act more so as a rotary transformer to feed power to the main rotor winding.  I suspect that the units that use an EVR (or even a permanent magnet rotor) are all likely going to be less prone to exhibiting the observed behavior (i.e., reduction of PM loading with reactive load applied).

I hope the experimentation continues...

But everyone please be careful!!

PW 

Ralis

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And your proof of this is where exactly?

What I actually have said or implied is that the results as demonstrated by Luc in his videos are not what they appear to be. In truth the circuit is behaving in a conventional manner, and I intend to show why.
I have my proof as I have done this before. There is something wrong here but I am not fighting anyone.
This experiment should start with taking measurements with the motor only to determine the power required by the motor to run then continue.
I see too much determination in fighting this cause, extreme determination shows me that you oppose free energy researching or have something against Luc.
this just my view, i might be wrong, who knows!

Ralis

forest

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Again , use my advice and DC motor as prime mover.

poynt99

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I have my proof as I have done this before.
Until you show proof, you are simply making a hollow claim, and therefore you can't expect anyone to buy into it can you?

Quote
There is something wrong here but I am not fighting anyone.
Indeed there is, and I intend showing what. Now that I'm back and I have the house to myself the rest of the day and evening, testing is about to begin.

Quote
This experiment should start with taking measurements with the motor only to determine the power required by the motor to run then continue.
Agreed. And it should continue with load testing to determine what load on the generator is required to cause a decrease in the motor rpm. But this won't happen because apparently Luc doesn't understand what I am asking.

Quote
I see too much determination in fighting this cause, extreme determination shows me that you oppose free energy researching or have something against Luc.
this just my view, i might be wrong, who knows!
Yes, you are wrong.

gotoluc

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Agreed. And it should continue with load testing to determine what load on the generator is required to cause a decrease in the motor rpm.

So this is what you want to know?

I have shared that 30 watts is the max I can pull out of my gen. Anything above that and the prime mover has to supply more energy in the standard way.

My generator has a 12uf cap for exciter field. Cap connected and prime mover needs about 158 watts to turn gen at 3500 RPM. If I disconnect the exciter cap the prime mover needs about 100 watts to turn the gen head. Prime mover is 3600 RPM max.

Hope this helps

Luc

TinselKoala

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I've been following this thread with interest for a while but I haven't felt that I had anything to contribute. Just lurking and learning; I'm dealing with reactive power issues in my wireless power / induction heating systems and trying to learn what I've missed.

I dug into my motor box and came up with a pair of interesting little motors that might enable me to do some experimentation. See the image below. These are antique Delco DC shunt motors. They are constructed just like modern DC "can" motors: wound armature, commutator, brushes, but in place of the magnets in the can motor, these have field coils. The two coils are connected in series and brought out to a pair of wires. The brushes are brought out in another pair of wires. There's no cap or other circuitry, so wiring options are unlimited and easy to implement. It has been some time since I've run these motors, but this is what I remember: The motors run well with separate DC supplies to the field coils and the armature, and there is an interesting relationship between output torque and the voltages one supplies to the two parts of the motor. The motors will also run from a single supply, IIRC, with the field coils in series with the armature brushes. Or maybe in parallel or both, I can't recall at the moment.

Since "mo-gens" are kind of a "hot" topic at the moment, I was thinking about mounting the pair on a board, coupled shaft-to-shaft, with one as "prime mover" and the other as generator. Any suggestions as to hookups, capacitor placement, rectification, etc. so I can start experimenting for myself?