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Author Topic: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread  (Read 262129 times)

Offline tim123

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..Maybe to check if there is a flux-bridge between Primary and Secondary.

Hi Johan,
  Good call! It is unmodified - and still has those bits in it. I didn't know it could have that effect...

Good instructions for removing them:
http://www.microformer.org/make-your-microformer/

Thanks, Tim :)

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Offline nilrehob

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I just did a second test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVE6Nit0_p8

/Hob

Offline gotoluc

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Again an excellent replication Hob. Love your resistive load switch box!
 
 For some time I was also unable to decide if the meters are able to read power correctly. I don't think they can when PF is close to zero.
 The only way I could think of testing the circuit to see if it can deliver real power (hopefully at no cost) was to build a generator and see if it causes a load to the alternator and prime mover once the circuit is connected.
 To my surprise it didn't cause a load (if tuned correctly) to the prime mover and delivered real power.
 From that I concluded we can extract power from a generator and that maybe we can do the same from the grid without losses to the grid provider.
 
 The real question is, can we extract enough power from an Alternator head and feed it back to its prime mover to keep the alternator turning?... many tests will need to be done to better understand the circuit.
 
 For your next test, instead of the series resistor on the Primary leg place the AC legs of a FWBR in series and connect the DC side to a battery. Now you have a reactive battery charger.
 
 Keep up the tests
 
 Luc

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Offline nilrehob

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A FWBR and a battery is exactly what I had in mind myself, this is just what I did in some of my other experiments on the generator-side of my Bedini-energizer, as in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3TsSD2l2ds (and a few other vids as well). What I found is that HV helps to mask the voltage-drop across the battery (just as we do with diodes), and a spark-gap also enhances the charging. :-) What makes charging batteries so interesting is that the voltage-drop stays the same (more or less) regardless of the current.

/Hob

Offline totoalas

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For the FWBR  in series ,  Dreamyear  has done this also to charge his lap top .......
Very good results
In Barbosa patent   they used 2 turns on the secondary in the mot and closed loop is wrapped with earth wire...... :)

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Offline Farmhand

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The only way I could think of testing the circuit to see if it can deliver real power (hopefully at no cost) was to build a generator and see if it causes a load to the alternator and prime mover once the circuit is connected.
 To my surprise it didn't cause a load (if tuned correctly) to the prime mover and delivered real power.
 From that I concluded we can extract power from a generator and that maybe we can do the same from the grid without losses to the grid provider.

So there was no input to the prime mover ? Just because the load caused no noticeable effect to the prime mover means next to nothing. What matters is what was the actual input and what was the actual output.

The important thing is in my opinion that the input and the output are still in question.

What I don't get is if it is actually free energy then why can it not be done with a battery and true sine wave inverter, until extra energy is shown I don't see valid gains.

Cheers





 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 01:06:27 AM by gotoluc »

Offline poynt99

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@poynt99
I don´t think that the channel 2 in your diagram needs to be inverted as both scope channels have the same ground location in the circuit...right ?

Actually, CH2 does need to be inverted (by the scope, not physically) in order to retain proper phase between the voltage and current.

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Offline poynt99

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Stefan,

I've already offered a plausible explanation for the noisy wave forms Tim is getting.

At 60Hz, the capacitive reactance of a 7uF capacitor is about 380 Ohms! So we have a high-pass filter effect here, and a significant level of noisy harmonics etc. are coming through. The noise is always there, we just don't see it when the grid is being measured without any high-pass filtering.

Offline poynt99

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I just did a second test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVE6Nit0_p8

/Hob

Hmmm, meters...puzzling indeed.

May I suggest Hob that you use your scope to measure the actual phase difference between the voltage and current as I showed in my diagram. Then with the amplitudes you can calculate the true input power.

Then of course you can do the same with the resistive load to see the output power.

Am I the only one that sees the elephant in the room?

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Offline gotoluc

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Hi poynt,

sorry for staying out of the discussion. I needed to do this to stay focused on my tests in hopes to better understand the circuit with my way of understanding which is non conventional I know but this is what allowed me to come up with these ideas.

So, don't take it personally. Your knowledge is and has been very helpful.

I see you have posted the below diagram for probe position, which are my probe positions. However I see you say to invert Channel 2 (current probe) is this the correct way?... and do you wish I test it this way and post the results.

Thanks for your time

Luc

Offline hartiberlin

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Actually, CH2 does need to be inverted (by the scope, not physically) in order to retain proper phase between the voltage and current.

I don´t think so.
Just short out the cap and place a positive voltage on the channel 1 from the grid.
Then a positive input current will flow through the transformer coil
which is registered right in the shunt as a positive value !

So no need to invert the scope channel !

Regards, Stefan.

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Offline hartiberlin

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.....

One thing is for sure if the energy companies see people or hear of people doing this they will not be pleased, and take action. People have been put in jail for similar schemes involving the stealing of energy using various means by manipulating their grid.

What I don't get is if it is actually free energy then why can it not be done with a battery and true sine wave inverter, until extra energy is shown using a source of AC other than the grid I don't see valid gains.


You are right.

The best way would be, if LUC would try it again with a high efficiency DC motor in front of his generator and
see, how much DC power he needs to drive the generator. If the DC power into the drive motor will also
not increase, he might be able to scale it up and use the MOT output also via a FWBR rectifier to charge up a supercap
and then run from it the DC motor and close the loop....
But this would probably require at least a factor 10 in MOT size as it seems to depend on iron core.

Maybe it can be done smaller with using higher frequencies and Ferrite transformers...

Regards, Stefan.

Offline gotoluc

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I don´t think so.
Just short out the cap and place a positive voltage on the channel 1 from the grid.
Then a positive input current will flow which is registered right in the shunt as a positive value !

So no need to invert the scope channel !

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan, you're up late!

I see there's a disagreement :-\

I will be a little more available to help do some additional tests if you think of anything more that would need to be tested.

Luc

Offline hartiberlin

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Hi Stefan, you're up late!

I see there's a disagreement :-\

I will be a little more available to help do some additional tests if you think of anything more that would need to be tested.

Luc

Hi Luc,
try to measure again your input power into your AC drive motor.
Can you do it with a different shunt ? Maybe try an 1 Ohm shunt made from SMD
parts. These are pretty noninductive.

I would really like to see in detail, how the input current waveform changes into the AC drive motor, when you apply the load
to the Generator. ( also please show in detail on the scope the phase relationship and the div/cm etc and
also the scope settings...maybe you can record another video ? That would really help.
Maybe take 10 x 10 Ohm resistors in parallel to get the 1 Ohm shunt ?
SHould reduce the inductance also this way.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Hi Luc,
if you have an 12 Volts DC to 120 Volts AC inverter, just try to power your AC drive motor with the inverter
from a 12 Volt battery and measure at the battery, if  drawing load from the generator will
see any increase into the inverter at the battery.

Okay, this adds losses from the inverter also, but this way you can see quickly  if the DC input power
changes, without needing a DC driving motor !

Regards, Stefan.

 

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