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Author Topic: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread  (Read 268511 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Hi Luc,

On your latest video: The LED is connected in series with the Tesla coil and completes the circuit via the yellow transformer output coil and I think the Tesla coil receives energy via the single wire of the center tap of the ferrite coil (also in Avramenko-plug fashion) and via the yellow transformer.
I assume you tuned the setup in the same way to have the 180° out of phase V-I relationship at the ferrite coil input and your Tesla coil may have also a resonance at or near this "sweet" frequency.
You did not show whether the LED remains lit when you remove the green cable from the center tap of the Tesla coil. If it remains lit, it may mean the LED receives enough power from the Tesla coil current, and if the LED gets off when removing the green cable then it may mean two things:
1) the green cable detunes the Tesla coil and there remains no circulating current enough to lite the LED,
2) the green cable brings some additional energy from somewhere which adds to the energy coming from the Avramenko plug direction (yellow trafo + single wire of the ferrite coil).

Some more comments: your signal generator is surely a piece of art and due to its high level output capability the oscillator levels inside and the power amplifiers inside to drive the output attenuator / resistor divider chain  surely create several Watts of power at any output frequency. This means that even though the metal box of the generator and circuit technics involved were designed to minimize any leakage of any set frequency and to prevent to let any unwanted signal out from the enclosure, still, I think that such elderly generators may let out some energy at other than its output BNC socket. Your AM radio receiver may sense such leakage if you leave the BNC output of the generator terminated with an 50 Ohm BNC termination and try to tune in the radio for some output frequency set at the generator, at similar output levels you have used in these tests. Maybe a small pocket sized AM radio would be better because it is ground independent (it has no mains supply but batteries) and it would be easier to probe around the generator.  (If the generator has a built-in AM modulation feature, you may wish to use it, it would make probing around more audible.)
I am not stating your generator leaks and fools the tests that way, I mention it as a possibility. I worked with high level signal generators and am aware of such unwanted "features".

One more comment: your green wire and its MOT core coupling may function as an antenna too, besides its "capacitive" nature for completing the circuit as a CMM capacitor as poynt99 mentioned and drew in his schematic. On the"antenna" function I mainly mean the EM field which is established at any place by the mains wires, local electrical equipment, local AM FM or TV stations etc. Again, I am not saying your green wire drives the LED exclusively from whatever such source, it may only contribute to it.
A question: could you check any change in the current consumption of the sig gen when you connect a 300-400 OHm metal film resistor across its BNC output? (nothing else but a few hundred Ohm resistor) I know you showed how sensitively the current changes when you adjust output level or frequency but cannot recall if you mentioned or did such test, the point being if there is a small load i.e. a high value resistor across the output.

I would also be interested in reading other opinions on Luc's questions. 

Thanks for making the 'Faraday cage' video.

Gyula

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Offline gotoluc

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Hi Gyula,

thanks for your post and detailed analyses.

I have said there are many ways to make this circuit and I think there are many other versions also.

In the video below I present another way.
All 5 coils are connected in series and have a DC resistance of 10.5 Ohms and inductance of 10.5mH
I have also included a few test for you.

Link to test 4 video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl6JlFEYyvw&feature=youtu.be

Luc

Offline poynt99

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Hi poynt,

none of the copper wires or coils are connected to anything. The single wire is only connected to the steel cores, so I wouldn't think there's any Inductance.

Please have a look at the next post for an update.

Thanks

Luc
Luc,

Any and all conductors with a changing current through them exhibit inductive reactance, including the connecting wire between your circuit and the MOTs.

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Offline poynt99

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Luc,

Despite a lower power output with the capacitor experiment I asked you to perform, you were still able to show a negative mean power.

The current is inverted because the return path for the smps transformer primary bypasses your 1 Ohm CSR. If you try that experiment again but connect the return to the CSR rather than ground, you should see the current wave form reverse phase. Don't use a scope probe on the output bulb though, as it may wreak havoc on the measurement.

Offline gotoluc

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Luc,

Despite a lower power output with the capacitor experiment I asked you to perform, you were still able to show a negative mean power.

The current is inverted because the return path for the smps transformer primary bypasses your 1 Ohm CSR. If you try that experiment again but connect the return to the CSR rather than ground, you should see the current wave form reverse phase. Don't use a scope probe on the output bulb though, as it may wreak havoc on the measurement.

Hi poynt,

forget about that circuit for now. Have a look at my newest test with no SMPS transformer, MOT core and wire pile.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl6JlFEYyvw&feature=youtu.be

Let me know where the power to light the LED comes from.

Thanks

Luc

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Offline gyulasun

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Luc,

Despite a lower power output with the capacitor experiment I asked you to perform, you were still able to show a negative mean power.

The current is inverted because the return path for the smps transformer primary bypasses your 1 Ohm CSR. If you try that experiment again but connect the return to the CSR rather than ground, you should see the current wave form reverse phase. Don't use a scope probe on the output bulb though, as it may wreak havoc on the measurement.

Hi poynt,

Would like to understand what you suggest to connect exactly what to where and the best would be if you could modify your schematic and show it. 

I attempted to modify your schematic as I guess you suggested but I am not sure my drawing reflects correctly your suggestion, see below.

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline poynt99

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Gyula,

I am at work and don't have my Visio drawing to show you.

However, if you take my last drawing which shows that CMM capacitor connected between the primary and ground, simply connect it to the right side of the CSR (at P2) instead of ground. Now all the current goes through the CSR and it is not bypassed.

You could also install the CSR right under the FG negative terminal (in series with the negative lead), and that would work as well, but this time one would not need to invert the signal on the scope, because the probe placement would not be inverted. Also, CMM would be connected between the primary and ground once again as shown in the diagram.

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Offline gyulasun

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However, if you take my last drawing which shows that CMM capacitor connected between the primary and ground, simply connect it to the right side of the CSR (at P2) instead of ground. Now all the current goes through the CSR and it is not bypassed.

You could also install the CSR right under the FG negative terminal (in series with the negative lead), and that would work as well, but this time one would not need to invert the signal on the scope, because the probe placement would not be inverted. Also, CMM would be connected between the primary and ground once again as shown in the diagram.

Well,  I have just modified the drawing as per your first suggestion above and I replaced my previous (wrong) modification to this new description, see the attachment in my previous post. Is that correct now?

Offline poynt99

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Yes, looks correct.

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Offline gyulasun

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Hi poynt99,

Thanks and in the meantime I edited your drawing to show your other suggestion on the placement of the CS resistor, in the 'negative' lead of the signal generator, see the attached file.  Is this also correct as you described?

Gyula

Offline gotoluc

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Okay poynt,

see the below unlisted video with a return to the CSR.
Since the MOT pile had no second wire to return to CSR I had to find something else. I used a long Tesla coil that has 200 Ohm and 36mH and should have a good amount of capacitance.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB3V104oJQo&feature=youtu.be

Luc
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 07:16:28 PM by gotoluc »

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Offline poynt99

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Hi poynt99,

Thanks and in the meantime I edited your drawing to show your other suggestion on the placement of the CS resistor, in the 'negative' lead of the signal generator, see the attached file.  Is this also correct as you described?

Gyula
That's correct Gyula.

Offline poynt99

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Not sure why the current wave form phase did not change there Luc. Can you try connecting the TC to gnd and see if there is any change in the phase, as opposed to connecting it to the CSR?

Offline gotoluc

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Hi everyone,

maybe the research on reactive power is not done yet

Have a look at this video Dog-One has pm me and share your thoughts

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDjWwoD83Rk

Luc

Offline poynt99

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Luc,

With that level of apparent power gain, a self-runner should be a piece of cake. The fact that they don't have one speaks volumes.

My money is on measurement error.

 

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