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Author Topic: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread  (Read 262078 times)

Offline verpies

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #600 on: February 06, 2014, 07:11:37 PM »
Ok, i took a quick shot at trying to get a flatline response on the parallel (left) bulb during resonance by manipulating the cores inside the coils.
Actually, for this experiment I had in mind a maximal and symmetrical fill with the ferrite "core sausage".

I was expecting to read: 
Without the sole bulb connected across the secondary, the resonance of the parallel LC tank formed by the primary winding is A
...and with the sole bulb connected across the secondary this primary resonance frequency is B.

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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #601 on: February 06, 2014, 08:31:00 PM »
Is there anywhere I can see how that thing is constructed?

I could not hear and understand anything you said.  Is that tight bearing really the only component responsible for that racket?

It's just a universal motor from a 240 volt vacuum cleaner with a plate and rotor bolted to it and the entire motor and rotor is bolted to the wooden platform (which magnifies the noise a bit). The toroid is just a transformer I had with "four separate transformers" wound on the core and the opposite ones are connected in series. The magnets are diametrically magnetized.

The bearing isn't responsible for the noise most of that is from the stuff on the bench and the brushes in the motor, plus I was in a tin shed with all the windows shut at midnight, so there was no other noise and I was not trying to talk over it as there was not much to say. The bearings are both tight, the shaft has no longitudinal play and the bearings are pressing hard on each end of the armature which makes it use a bit more power than normal. The brushes do make a bit of noise, they need replacing.

Not much was really said in the video, no claims being made, but I must say it has a lot less drag than most generators I have made (aside from the tight shaft in the bearings). It does "load down" when loaded though in normal operation. I've got some idea's to get the wave form better. And I should get much better voltage/power with a better rotor ( that one I had already laying around), I whipped up that setup in a couple of hours. Basically I have a rotating "permanent magnet field" and an annular armature/stator wound Tesla motor/converter style. I intend to make the rotor and magnet placement so the waveform is more classically sinusoidal.

Each Phase has two opposite coils and together they measure about 460 mH that's per phase. It also has some thicker shorter coils wound on there in bifilar pairs ( they were for using the transformer as an inverter ) It may help if I connect all the coils in each quarter in series then connect the opposite quarters in series to get the highest output (use all the wire).

The brushes in he universal motor need attention as well, they are cut down, I have plenty of spares, I even have a 1200 Watt motor the same and a 2000 watt one as well, the one i'm using now is a 1600 Watt motor and has seen a lot of use and abuse, they are designed for 240 AC but I just power them with DC mostly. I use a 5 amp 40 volt boost converter mostly. 70 Watts max. But it can run from AC as well.

Cheers

P.S. Having no pole projections there is no cogging.  ;) Good for wind generator. But if Luc can help me make one phase power the other for free I won't need wind.  :)

To explain the bearing situation I replaced the bearings and the new ones are a bit higher and I left in the spacing washer, I just need to shim the frame or remove the spacing washer or replace it with a thinner one to give some up-down shaft play and let it spin freely..

Theoretically I should be able to power the coils with two phases of current and turn the rotor to generate DC from the universal motor.

..

The magnets aren't even centered vertically to the coils yet, the new rotor will be double thickness and totally encase the magnets.

..

   

Offline itsu

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #602 on: February 06, 2014, 11:53:31 PM »
Actually, for this experiment I had in mind a maximal and symmetrical fill with the ferrite "core sausage".

I was expecting to read: 
Without the sole bulb connected across the secondary, the resonance of the parallel LC tank formed by the primary winding is A
...and with the sole bulb connected across the secondary this primary resonance frequency is B.

Ok,  i gave it another try and now know why i mentioned that it did not work as expected.
Probably i misunderstand something, but the resonance frequencies differ only 80Hz, which makes it very hard to tune/compensate i guess.
The figures are:

Without the sole bulb connected across the secondary, the resonance of the parallel LC tank formed by the primary winding is 3.520KHz
...and with the sole bulb connected across the secondary this primary resonance frequency is 3.6KHz

So it is like you mentioned in an earlier post, but very marginally:

Quote
he would find that fP is higher with a loaded secondary winding than with an unloaded or open secondary winding.

But the next line is, as mentioned before, not that easy to perform:

Quote
Finally, if he tuned* the secondary LC tank's resonance frequency (fS) to be equal to the primary resonance frequency (fP) under load, according to the procedure just outlined above, then the whole system would behave more perfectly (like in the first video).

Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSEGV_MOMwY&feature=youtu.be

Regards Itsu

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #602 on: February 06, 2014, 11:53:31 PM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #603 on: February 07, 2014, 12:23:10 AM »
OK, I gave it another try and now I know why I mentioned, that it did not work as expected.
Probably I misunderstand something, but the resonance frequencies differ only 80Hz,
You did not misunderstand anything, but I apologize for using two words interchangeably ("open" and "unloaded"). The were synonymous.

The difference in frequency would be larger than 80Hz if you moved the "ferrite sausages" to the middle of the two coils (because that would increase the coefficient of their mutual inductance).

The only thing I would do differently, is sensing the voltage across the primary capacitor and tune for max voltage there, because the signal would be less noisy across this capacitor than across the primary bulb.

P.S.
That double dip is what Gyulasun was driving at. 
If you did the frequency sweep with the SG and the scope connected like we did once in the past, you'd actually see the double dip on the screen of the scope. 
BTW: I am not asking you to do a frequency sweep for this simple experiment - I know it's a hassle to set up ;)

I am interested, however, if your new scope has adjustable persistence in the XY mode (...or a 'Clear Screen" input). 
I remember that the old scope did not have it, and because of that shortcoming we could not do fast exponential frequency sweeps (only slow linear sweeps).

Offline itsu

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #604 on: February 07, 2014, 02:27:56 PM »
You did not misunderstand anything

The difference in frequency would be larger than 80Hz if you moved the "ferrite sausages" to the middle of the two coils (because that would increase the coefficient of their mutual inductance).

P.S.

I am interested, however, if your new scope has adjustable persistence in the XY mode (...or a 'Clear Screen" input). 
I remember that the old scope did not have it, and because of that shortcoming we could not do fast exponential frequency sweeps (only slow linear sweeps).

Ok,  great.

I can move the core and see what happens.

Let me check this scope for this "adjustable persistence in the XY mode"

Regards Itsu

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #604 on: February 07, 2014, 02:27:56 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #605 on: February 07, 2014, 04:21:37 PM »
I put together this crazy two phase generator setup.  ;D With a bit of maintenance on the motor it will be much more efficient. I was thinking i could do some experiments with it since the universal motor can be powered from a Battery with DC or with AC from the wall socket via a power meter and variac. And with two phases I could compare differences between two separate outputs at the same time. It can do 50/60 hz or even up to 80 or 100 Hz maybe. Voltage traces of the two phases is shown on the scope. It's not as loud as it sounds on the video.

Small two phase generator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GSRtEKqh48

Cheers

Very good generator design idea Farmhand. I was also thinking of experimenting with something of this style but as a motor. Could you make a motor out of it?
Hope you get your bearing issue fixed.  looks like you have much waste there.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #606 on: February 07, 2014, 04:45:48 PM »
Dear

I am a highschool student and surely don't have that much knowledge as most of here have.
I have seen a video where gotoluc shows how he uses capacitors for having an overunity transformer, I drawed a picture of how I explain it simplfied, is this correct?

Kind regards, Julien

Hi Julien,

your 3rd drawing is what I was using with a microwave oven transformer. Capacitor in series on the primary and a resistor on the secondary.

I have not claimed over unity but have had some interesting effects. Be careful this is dangerous experiments.

Luc

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #606 on: February 07, 2014, 04:45:48 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #607 on: February 07, 2014, 08:37:43 PM »
I put together this crazy two phase generator setup.  ;D With a bit of maintenance on the motor it will be much more efficient. I was thinking i could do some experiments with it since the universal motor can be powered from a Battery with DC or with AC from the wall socket via a power meter and variac. And with two phases I could compare differences between two separate outputs at the same time. It can do 50/60 hz or even up to 80 or 100 Hz maybe. Voltage traces of the two phases is shown on the scope. It's not as loud as it sounds on the video.

Small two phase generator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GSRtEKqh48

Cheers

Actually I have another idea, keep the generator as is for now and make a trigger circuit that will short the gen coil or coils at their peak of the sine wave for a small fraction (duty cycle) and see what that does for the output. It maybe enough to kick the magnets at the right time and boost the output also.

Luc

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #608 on: February 07, 2014, 09:24:37 PM »
Hi Luc, I do have a circuit that i can use for shorting the coils, but I need to change the optical sensor module for a hall effect sensor module. I found if I add 13 uF to each phase i get resonance at just over 60 Hz and the voltage is rediculous, I'm talking over 300 volts peak to peak and I still am not at full resonance, also one set of coils has more wire on it than the other, I need to fix that, originally I fixed it by adding some wire to the lesser inductance/resistance set but that made those coils exceeded the inside diameter limits. So the only option is to remove half a layer from the higher inductance/resistance set to even them up..

I'll try to motor it by just using the active line split and one phase powered with the 14 uf capacitor in series to get a difference in the phase of the currents. One thing I've learned with Tesla's devices is that the direction of wind of the coils can not be taken for granted. Things must be wound a certain way to be able to match the wiring of the diagrams, so it is important to understand what the result of a certain connection will be.

By connecting one end of the two phases together I can get a three wire system grounded return.

I can already get good speed up under load and short effects even at low frequency, 40 Hz.

Cheers

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #608 on: February 07, 2014, 09:24:37 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #609 on: February 07, 2014, 09:54:47 PM »
Hi Luc, I do have a circuit that i can use for shorting the coils, but I need to change the optical sensor module for a hall effect sensor module. I found if I add 13 uF to each phase i get resonance at just over 60 Hz and the voltage is rediculous, I'm talking over 300 volts peak to peak and I still am not at full resonance, also one set of coils has more wire on it than the other, I need to fix that, originally I fixed it by adding some wire to the lesser inductance/resistance set but that made those coils exceeded the inside diameter limits. So the only option is to remove half a layer from the higher inductance/resistance set to even them up..

I'll try to motor it by just using the active line split and one phase powered with the 14 uf capacitor in series to get a difference in the phase of the currents. One thing I've learned with Tesla's devices is that the direction of wind of the coils can not be taken for granted. Things must be wound a certain way to be able to match the wiring of the diagrams, so it is important to understand what the result of a certain connection will be.

By connecting one end of the two phases together I can get a three wire system grounded return.

I can already get good speed up under load and short effects even at low frequency, 40 Hz.

Cheers

Thanks for the reply Farmhand

have you already experimented with coil shorting?... I think you need bidirectional mosfet's to do it? 
I prefer optical to halls sensors. I don't see why you couldn't use the optical sensors?...  sorting timing should be in the same place once you find the best location and you can vary the length of the reflector for pulse duration. But you may need two opticalsensors if your magnets are not at exact opposites.


It's nice that you can also get resonance at such a low frequency!... but I would guess if you attach a load it probably has more Lenz then non resonance?

I'll be interested in your results.

Thanks for testing and sharing

Cheers

Luc

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #610 on: February 07, 2014, 11:26:25 PM »
My Pleasure Luc, I love to experiment.  :) With my particular setup I made the toroid more for a transformer ( a motor would be better with the core higher than it is from inside to outside diameter) and with a circuit I can get similar effect by switching the thick (primary windings for a step up), but the timing is odd and requires a 4 Phase signal, two phases can do it using resonance I guess. I'll make a few changes and probably mount the new rotor on a shaft. then I can couple to different motors ect.

Cheers

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #610 on: February 07, 2014, 11:26:25 PM »
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Offline dieter

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Luc and all others,


Has there been any attempt to design a controller that would:


test the power factor and trigger some relais to connect the right amount of capacitance to get a 90° phase shift (eg. like an autofocus), and probably stepup the voltage simultanously to maintain the initial or required voltage?


A circuit that can indicate the power factor in a simple way would be useful anyway. How are wattmeters doing that?


With 10 caps and relais, with values of 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512 uF the controller could handle anything between 1 and 1023 uF.


Regards


BTW. your research is some of the best I've seen in the field of FE, so respect and thank you!

Offline jbignes5

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 Keep going Farmhand you are now playing in my world. GREAT work there.


 One suggestion though. Get rid of the magnets and wind up the two phase coils on the rotor. What this will do is bring variability to the generator which will adjust to the field coils. You can still use the magnets as a magneto like setup and mount them on the shaft to energize 4 coils of the magneto section to power the field coils. What this does is remove the power input requirements after the system is brought up to speed.


 Remember the Tesla patent I have been showing about this system. Try to stay on that course because it does work exactly how it is shown. All of the connections are shown as well to where to pull current from once the system is running.


 This thing uses the transformer action to loop the magnetic field and electric field. Since both are tied together it guides one (magnetic) through the machine and converts it to the electric (inductive) action of the transformer. This will only be as good as the magnetic pathway you have designed into the field cores and rotor. More pathway there and the stronger the output will be.


 You are sooooooooo close now.


 Have fun,
 jbignes5

Offline gotoluc

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Hi everyone,

I have an interesting effect (to me anyways) in a Solid State generator of my design that I've been working on part time for the past couple of months.

Could .99, TK or MH confirm if this has value. Since I recall .99 said that until I have a positive means when current prob is inverted my circuit would be using power.
Well I now have a positive means with current probe inverted and the generator circuit is outputting power to a resistive load (GE 53 12v 2w bulb).

Video has some corrections: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz5AlbQHILI

Luc

Offline poynt99

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Luc,

I believe those are 18 Ohm resistors (8 is grey if I recall), so you likely have 18 of them in parallel.

Once again, a drawn out circuit can reveal things we may miss when thinking about the circuit strictly in our heads. I have taken the liberty to drawn one for you.

First thing of note, is your metal mass of MOT's etc, is probably just providing a capacitive coupling to ground to complete the smps transformer primary circuit (shown with dotted line to CMM).

Second, you should notice that the FG has a 50 Ohm output resistor RG, and with your measurement probes P1 and P2, you are not strictly measuring the output power of the FG; you are also measuring the output power dissipated in RG. This is going to skew the polarity of your power measurement.

When doing power measurements with your FG as the source, I would suggest you build, buy, or use some kind of low impedance buffer after your FG so that you can measure the true output, not through a 50 Ohm output resistor. Here is a suggested buffer from MarkE.

http://www.overunity.com/13743/rosemary-ainslie-quantum-magazine-circuit-cop-17-claims/msg396139/#msg396139

@Mark, perhaps this is not entirely suitable for this application. Can you suggest something else if not? Actually, now that I think about it, this output buffer is aimed at pulse output boosting, not for sine waves. We would need some biasing in this stage to minimize the cross-over distortion.

 

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