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Author Topic: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread  (Read 264908 times)

Offline poynt99

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I just did a first test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc056vnuIYU

/Hob
Hi Hob.

I wonder if the decimal point is missing in that meter perhaps? That would make it 3.1W.

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Offline hartiberlin

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Well done Tim and Hob,
will have a closer look later.

Hob,
WHat does the black Wattmeter show as a power factor ?
Does your white Wattmeter measure apparent power when it displays 31 Watts besides power factor of 0.08 ?

Offline gotoluc

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Congratulation Hob,

you are the first to replicate the circuit correctly.

I shared this information exactly one month ago to the day (Nov 15th)

Now for your next test, short the Secondary and add a Low value 1 to 10 ohms resistor in Series on the return leg (non cap side) of the Primary. This is now a low voltage but high current output.
Start with 1 ohms and work your way up till the watts are at minimum. The voltage across the resistor is equal to power you can take out of the circuit.

After you have found the ideal resistor value make a new video to show and I will give you the next test of what to do with this power.

All the best

Luc

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Offline tim123

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Just a note about calibration. I used a signal generator to make a 50Hz sine wave - to test my meters...
 - DMM : 3v (RMS) - I set it to this amplitude as my reference.
 - Mains Scope (GW Instek) - 3.07v RMS (8.5v Pk)
 - Battery Scope (DSO203) - 2.57v RMS (6.25 Pk)

So the DSO looks like it needs calibrating...

I also did this to see if I could trace the x10 multiplication problem I had - but I'm no wiser... They all seem to work ok...

Offline tim123

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Congratulation Hob,
you are the first to replicate the circuit correctly.

Luc, I've replicated what you posted here, apart from different resistor values (which you suggested yourself anyway):
http://www.overunity.com/14013/reactive-generator-research-for-everyone-to-share/msg377250/#msg377250

If I'm doing something wrong, then perhaps you would tell me what it is?

Is it because Hob's meter was reading 0 watts? Is that why what he did was 'right'? Surely that's a faulty meter... He even had two to show the discrepency...

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Offline gotoluc

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All the information needed was given.

Those on the 220v grid will have more success in getting 0 Watts reading because MOT Primaries have more Inductance.

It you knew what a Power Factor of 0.08 was you would not say the meters are faulty.

Hopefully in time it will become easier to replicate and understand

Luc

Offline tim123

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All the information needed was given.

Well, if it was, then please accept my humblest apologies for having missed it, and please answer the question.

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Offline poynt99

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Luc, I've replicated what you posted here, apart from different resistor values (which you suggested yourself anyway):
http://www.overunity.com/14013/reactive-generator-research-for-everyone-to-share/msg377250/#msg377250

If I'm doing something wrong, then perhaps you would tell me what it is?

Is it because Hob's meter was reading 0 watts? Is that why what he did was 'right'? Surely that's a faulty meter... He even had two to show the discrepency...
I think Hob's meter has a resolution of 3W, and the power being used is probably hovering right around the 1.5W mark. That would explain why it is changing between 0W and 3W while in steady state.

@Luc:

It is ludicrous to rely solely on a $20 power meter that wasn't designed to be accurate down in the range that would be considered "dirt" by comparison to most average loads.

Everyone knows what a PF of 0.08 means. It means that you are trying to find a needle in a hay stack in terms of power and PF measurement. And you are using the wrong equipment to boot. You have a decent oscilloscope at hand so use it. I gave the diagram to measure both the input power and phase difference. Once you have that you can then use the scope to measure the rms voltage across your 1k load resistor to get the power dissipated.
It's then a simple math operation to see if you are OU or not. Right?

And you would be wise to get rid of all those wirewound resistors. Unless you are using them on DC circuits, they are trouble. Must I send you a proper 1k and 0.1 Ohm power resistor?

Please upload your video demonstrating OU with this simpler circuit.

Offline hartiberlin

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Hiu Tim,
do you have a ground problem, or why do you have these ringing wavforms ?
Is a scope ground not connected or is your LC resonance frequency about 100 or 150 Hz, so
it is close to a harmonic beat frequency ?

I think Hob has now shown the effect also clearly in his video but these 2 Wattmeters have to be compared more , what powerfactor does the black power meter show ?
Also would be beneficial, if Hob could show scopeshots.

@poynt99
I don´t think that the channel 2 in your diagram needs to be inverted as both scope channels have the same ground location in the circuit...right ?


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Offline tim123

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do you have a ground problem, or why do you have these ringing wavforms ?

Hi Stefan,
  I think the noise is coming from other things running around the house - like central heating pump, fridge etc... It gets less as the voltage / power throughput goes up in the circuit.

I've connected 2 scopes to the circuit - they both show the ringing...

Offline hartiberlin

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Hi Tim,
still a strange waveform, I still guess you have a ground problem there, so that the neutral line
is not fully connected.
Please try at night, where you can switch off all other equipment and only run this circuit and see, if the ringing still
exists...Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

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Offline tim123

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Congratulation Hob,
you are the first to replicate the circuit correctly.

I just watched Hob's vid again.

The circuit he has is exactly the same as the one I've posted - except he's using a bulb on the 2ndary - instead of a resistor - after you told me that a bulb was no good... lol. (And he has 2 wattmeters)

I don't know what you think his vid shows, but to me it clearly shows that you cannot rely on a single source of measurement.

Actually, you've not proven that the resistor is dissipating 20W...
...you must confirm that measurement by at least one other means. This mantra has been stated endless times in this forum but it seems to always fall on deaf ears. And to date, no one here has made a single watt of OU power, which proves that they've been wrong 100% of the time they make a claim based on their botched power measurements.

Offline tim123

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still a strange waveform, I still guess you have a ground problem there, so that the neutral line
is not fully connected.

Hi Stefan,

http://www.emfs.info/Sources+of+EMFs/distribution/Neutral+earth+connections.htm

"According the the rules in the UK:
 ...you are not allowed to have any connections between the neutral and earth inside the home.  If the home has pme applied, the neutral and earth will be connected at the cutout position (ie at the electricity meter).  But from there on, the neutral should be isolated from earth."

The house is part way through a re-wire too. That may be related. I'll speak to my electrician - if he ever comes back to finish the job... :(

Regards, Tim

Offline hartiberlin

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Hi Tim,
yes, do it like Hob and use a 40 Watts bulb on the secondary of the MOT transformer.

You can also try as an additional test to have there in series with the bulb another cap to see, if it will benefit to shift the
phase also on the secondary.

Regarding the mysterious superposition of 100 or 150 Hz sine wave on your 50 Hz wave,
it might be some kind of ground loop current when a big load on the same Line
is running, like a fridge or washing machine or something with a motor in it which draws lots of current.

If I still remember right in the UK where you are based all the electric wall plugs
are standardized and could not be pluged in reverse as at us in Germany, right ?
So your plugs have always the Line and Neutral pins at the same location and every
electrician must obey the rule to have the Line and Neutral at the same position in the
plug everytime, right ?

So maybe if your house wiring is faulty you have the outside ground connected,
where normally the Neutral should be in the plug ?
If this is mixed up throughout your house it could result in Ground current loops and these
induce then these different potential currents when big loads are applied, which could
then also create such overtones as seen in your scope shots.

Compare it to hum noise in audio equipment when ground current loops build
up when you have multiple ground lines connected to an audio mixer...it is probably the same problem...

Try to use an isolation transformer first, before you go into the circuit, that will fix it.
You can also build an isolation transformer from 2 x   12<->230 Volts transformers, by putting
them in series like this: 230 Volts -> 12 Volts ->12 Volts > 230 Volts.

The 2 transformers then should have at least a 50 to 100 Watts rating.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Johan_1955

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Hi Tim,
still a strange waveform, I still guess you have a ground problem there, so that the neutral line
is not fully connected.
Please try at night, where you can switch off all other equipment and only run this circuit and see, if the ringing still
exists...Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.


Hi Tim & Stefan,


About the wave-form: Maybe to check if there is a flux-bridge between Primary and Secondary.
The wave for sure looks like it to me, its mostly simple block of plates between the coils to by-pass?


Regards, Johan

 

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