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Author Topic: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped  (Read 77184 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #120 on: January 16, 2014, 08:35:49 PM »
What are the odds?

I was at an Arby's in Greensburg, Indiana, yesterday, stopping for lunch while on my way to some business meetings near there.  They have a large spiral coin funnel thingy collecting money for charity.  I took a moment to read the label on the funnel and it was manufactured by Divnick International in Miamisburg, Ohio.  That was a shocker for me because that is the city where I work!  I looked up divnick.com and it links directly to the spiralwishingwells.com website.  Same company.  And only about 3 miles from where I am sitting right now.

M.

Well... good for you. Why don't you take Grimer's 2000 pounds, then. I don't want to have anything to do with him, at this point, and I'm very glad I haven't given him any more information. (If you need a sub-consultant, I'll help you construct a system for measuring the speed accurately, for 20 percent of the take.)

I do have a mathematical proof that shows the speed of the ball or coin anywhere in the funnel cannot be faster than [sqrt(2gh) + Vinit], which is its speed attained in a vertical fall through height h, starting with speed Vinit. But of course nobody is interested in mathematical proofs, as they ultimately rely on Conservation of Momentum as a hidden assumption. An assumption that has _never_ been seen to be violated, of course.

Was the Arby's any good? I haven't had one in ages.

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #120 on: January 16, 2014, 08:35:49 PM »

Offline Grimer

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #121 on: January 16, 2014, 08:57:38 PM »
... Why don't you take Grimer's 2000 pounds, then. I don't want to have anything to do with him, at this point,...
:-* :-* :-*

Offline Grimer

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #122 on: January 16, 2014, 09:02:40 PM »
What are the odds?

I was at an Arby's in Greensburg, Indiana, yesterday, stopping for lunch while on my way to some business meetings near there.  They have a large spiral coin funnel thingy collecting money for charity.  I took a moment to read the label on the funnel and it was manufactured by Divnick International in Miamisburg, Ohio.  That was a shocker for me because that is the city where I work!  I looked up divnick.com and it links directly to the spiralwishingwells.com website.  Same company.  And only about 3 miles from where I am sitting right now.

M.
All you need to do is to show the speed on exit is more than it should be and you'll be famous.  ;D
The rest is simply engineering.


I'd do it myself but I'm not an experimentalist.

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #122 on: January 16, 2014, 09:02:40 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #123 on: January 16, 2014, 09:12:23 PM »
@TK,

Ha!  I doubt anything I would do would be adequate!  Plus, proximity to the company that markets the coin vortex doesn't mean I have any advantage as far as doing an experiment with one.

Since I don't have video equipment to measure velocities, nor skills to whip up a photo-interrupter timer in short order, I would have probably have gone a different way.  Not that I believe such an experiment would provide extraordinary results.  But I do like to see how you experienced experimenters build, instrument, and test.

I liked your idea about a purely mechanical test where some sort of ramp would re-direct the coin as it exits the bottom of the funnel and causes it to attempt to rise back up to the starting height.  But I had no idea how you could pull that off simply!  I was looking forward to seeing what you might have come up with.

I was wondering what you would have thought of this idea:  Cut off the end of the funnel.  Suspend it a known distance above a level surface.  Measure the distance the coin travels horizontally when it exits the bottom of the funnel until it hits the surface.  Now create a simple, non-spiral vortex ramp that would cause the coin to drop the same vertical distance as from the funnel entrance to its exit, with the bottom being horizontal and at the same height above the surface.  Roll the coin down this second ramp and measure the horizontal distance it travels.  Compare the two distances.  If the vortex added some KE from EG then the coin on the simple ramp would travel less far, right?

One concern was that the coin leaving the funnel would not be traveling exactly horizontal.  Still, I was wondering how accurate this type of simple mechanical comparison setup would be.  Any thoughts?

No Arby's?  Wow.  I've haven't spent much time in Texas and never noticed their absence.  Not that I go looking for them.  Just not a lot of options in Greensburg, Indiana, and I end up there about once a week.  So it is in the "rotation" for lunch destinations.  It was, per usual, adequate.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #124 on: February 09, 2014, 09:37:58 PM »
@ MIDTECH =>  things are beginning to heat up;

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2014:02:09#MidTech_releases_Black_Box_Dominator_price_list

Note: that there is a lot of visual information given about what this black box contains is in the youtube videos.

My recommendation to future customers is to do what the guy says to do;

People who want to use the box as a back up power unit now can go ahead and order it, but
anyone else interested in anything about overunity should wait for further research and development
as well as further discussions here.

For those who want utility power backup:

This is a nice electric utility power backup unit with 420AH x 12V deep cycle battery of storage = ~5KWH this
would run an iron like load straight out for about 4 hours plus any additional electrical energy that
can be collected from the solar panel and wind generator during that time, plus have whatever overunity
energy that might or might not be there from the motor/generator.  This unit is not utility interactive
but could be made that way with the addition of a small Siemens standalone line interactive inverters
(not part of unit).

These would be turned on sometime before the "power dump" board in the back center of the unit. This
board seems to use water heater elements in open air to burn up to heat excess battery energy. Battery
overcharge might result which can lose battery water by electrolysis, were the board not present. The
solar array, wind generator, or plug in cord would be necessary to use if unit's battery is entirely discharged.

Criticism of this design: The binding posts on back of unit need to be recessed inside of cabinet surface or
risk breaking them off. It may be possible to use the type of same plastic boxes used inside for the outlets.
For a large storage bank a larger connector would be required to help prevent DC current losses.

---

Overunity Discussion:

This Midtech Black Box Dominator appears to be a pure Qmogen.
The internal 210ah deep cycle acid/lead batteries are in series at 12VDC.

Does anyone know which is the motor and which is the alternator?
I expect that both the motor and the alternator are 12VDC?

:S:MarkSCoffman

 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #124 on: February 09, 2014, 09:37:58 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Midtech
« Reply #125 on: February 10, 2014, 09:20:59 AM »
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2014:02:09#MidTech_posts_first_Black_Box_Dominator_video

To me it looks like this is nothing more than a "electric motor powered generator", the battery is storage for the wind and solar inputs and to drive the generator when the power goes out. The load dump would be for the wind turbine and the wind turbine only, wind turbines generally cannot be unloaded or they spin too fast, some models have magnetic braking and or blade "feathering" but are more expensive. Without those things a load dump is required when the batteries are fully charged and the unit is not in use, the battery charge controller prevents the battery from overcharging. It has a V belt from motor to generator. hehehe  ???

These systems will never be OU unless you consider the solar and wind power as OU. If there is such a thing as OU it would be no different in reality to wind or solar being that energy would be collected for free from somewhere.

If the grid power goes out and the sun blocked by clouds and there is no wind then the system will deplete the batteries charge as normal and when they become depleted enough the unit will cease to output power.

This is a back up AC power system with wind and solar "or grid" input.

An electric motor connected to a generator will not produce more energy than it consumes. None have so far and I doubt any ever will.

The solar and wind inputs keep the batteries charged and ready for when the power goes out, and if there is wind and sun those inputs will contribute to the output along with the batteries which will provide power in excess of the solar and wind 750 Watt max output when it is required but that will deplete the batteries.

All in all it could be a useful system, but the motor generator part will not run itself, not in my opinion, nor is it intended to. If I was Midtech I would request the PESwiki article be removed for fear they will cause people to expect the setup to eventually produce power with no input, hence causing people to not buy a usable system now and wait for the OU version which will never become available. I mean if they cannot work out how to power the motor from the battery something is fishy. PESwiki the hype kings are running out of funds, they need your money for more hype up write ups. I fail to see what purpose PESwiki serves. Except to instill false hopes.

Cheers

P.S. Petrol and diesel powered generators are polluting noisy things but in a power outage that lasts for days, they are difficult to beat, you just keep putting fuel in them and they can run day and night for as long as in needed (not including breakdowns). We have a 6 kVA generator and it will run the entire house for days on a surprisingly small amount of fuel. It's very handy. For short outages I usually just don't use stuff and make light with my solar charged battery bank. For long outages we turn off the generator at night and keep all but one of the fridges and freezers closed. Also when they are not in use there is no wear and tear on them.

..

Offline deanc5000

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #126 on: February 10, 2014, 07:37:02 PM »
"Does anyone know which is the motor and which is the alternator?
I expect that both the motor and the alternator are 12VDC?

:S:MarkSCoffman"

Mark, Midtech has said the motor used is Marathon Electric Motor, 1/4HP, 1625rpm, thermally protected, AC, Model number: 5KCP35KNB057AS

No info on the generator, but looking at the size, and wire gauge and flange type, my guess would be a 2 or 3hp treadmill duty 130VDC motor (used as generator). These are fairly popular among the diy wind crowd. Again this is a guess only right now.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #126 on: February 10, 2014, 07:37:02 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #127 on: February 10, 2014, 08:07:45 PM »
I found a way to connect a small black box to a wheel through a single bearing point on the wheel and the box will generate power by rotating the wheel. It's not magnetic and has no other connections.
 
The question is , what mechanism exists that will counter the rotation of the wheel when the only connection the box has is the single bearing point on the wheel?
 
It's not making sense, either over unity devices exist, or there is some type of unknown vector drive.
 
 
 
 

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #128 on: February 11, 2014, 03:55:18 PM »
"Does anyone know which is the motor and which is the alternator?
I expect that both the motor and the alternator are 12VDC?
"

Mark, Midtech has said the motor used is Marathon Electric Motor, 1/4HP, 1625rpm, thermally protected, AC, Model number: 5KCP35KNB057AS

No info on the generator, but looking at the size, and wire gauge and flange type, my guess would be a 2 or 3hp treadmill duty 130VDC motor (used as generator). These are fairly popular among the diy wind crowd. Again this is a guess only right now.

Wow, Thank you for information, unexpected really.

---

There seems to be a triac lamp/speed controller beneath the motor mounting board. Which would make sense if it controls
the motor drive.

I'd love to try dropping a Keppemotor in there as a prime mover to see if they are BS or not.
but I have no idea whether .25HP Keppemotor even exists.


I found a way to connect a small black box to a wheel through a single bearing point on the wheel and the box will generate power by rotating the wheel. It's not magnetic and has no other connections.
 
The question is , what mechanism exists that will counter the rotation of the wheel when the only connection the box has is the single bearing point on the wheel?
 
It's not making sense, either over unity devices exist, or there is some type of unknown vector drive.



Two:  (a) air resistance and static electricity like a Wimshurst machine. The youtube video of the helicopter generating
               fiery halo while operating in a dust storm. Variation based in relative humidity or brush injection of electrons
               with auto ignition coil and CRT TV high voltage rectifier.

         (b) some sort of homopolar magnetic generator utilizing the earth's magnetic field. Might look for a systematic
               variation of voltage during wheel precession. Could also be due to a single split loop of the utility wiring
               in the room where device is being tested, due to a "two switches for one light" type circuit.

:S:MarkSCoffman


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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #128 on: February 11, 2014, 03:55:18 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #129 on: February 11, 2014, 07:47:16 PM »
@Mark,

Sorry mark, I should have provided more info on the device.

From the Gyro experiment in my video, it is clear that pitting centrifugal force against the stability of a gyro will produce over ten times the energy it takes to operate the gyro.

The gyro and a weighted lever are combined into a single box that is attached to a wheel by a single bearing pivot point on the wheel. The gyro provides a stationary platform while the weighted lever operates against the gyro to run a generator.

The question then becomes:

By attaching a single black box on a wheel, connected only by a single pivot point, is there any known force that could act against the wheel?

I ask this because the data proves this to be possible. The gain of energy in the black box would require that the energy comes from some source and it would likely be the wheel, but I see no mechanism to resist the rotation of the wheel.





Offline AnandAadhar

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2014, 09:49:42 AM »
@Mark,

Sorry mark, I should have provided more info on the device.

From the Gyro experiment in my video, it is clear that pitting centrifugal force against the stability of a gyro will produce over ten times the energy it takes to operate the gyro.

The gyro and a weighted lever are combined into a single box that is attached to a wheel by a single bearing pivot point on the wheel. The gyro provides a stationary platform while the weighted lever operates against the gyro to run a generator.

The question then becomes:

By attaching a single black box on a wheel, connected only by a single pivot point, is there any known force that could act against the wheel?

I ask this because the data proves this to be possible. The gain of energy in the black box would require that the energy comes from some source and it would likely be the wheel, but I see no mechanism to resist the rotation of the wheel.


See also the discussion about the so-called Rotoverter Qmogen. Very simple to replicate PM circuit converting energy from an unknnown source, and lighting a bulb.
download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67378968/rotovert%28Free%20energy%29.mp4


http://www.overunity.com/10825/free-energy-magnet-motor-selfrunning-powering-lightbulb/

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2014, 09:49:42 AM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #131 on: February 24, 2014, 07:36:42 PM »
Nice trick .   Light bulb is easy part but I'm impressed with how the motor fake is done.   Probably replaced motors with small DC motors and have a battery and diode setup inside the coil(s).    I wish this was real but I can't believe it for a moment.  I rarely call fake but I'm sure these microwave fan motors can't do what is being shown.   

Offline lumen

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #132 on: February 24, 2014, 08:19:34 PM »
Yes, that's what I thought. Very nice.
 
It would be easy to give all the information on this simple device if it actually worked but then one could duplicate the build and the truth would be known one way or the other, right!
 
 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #133 on: February 24, 2014, 08:22:20 PM »
Of course it's fake. The lightbulb is powering the motors, not the other way around.

Right?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

But I am intrigued by lumen's device, as I have an interest in gyroscopes and precession phenomena. I can't quite get the picture from lumen's description, though. Can we see a diagram or even better a video demonstration of lumen's apparatus?


Offline lumen

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #134 on: February 25, 2014, 02:36:44 AM »
@TK,

In my first video I was showing how a gyro can support itself against it's driving input of at least 10 times it's own driving force, and is likely more than 100 times staying within a safety margin. The self support is directly dependent on the RPM of the gyro where the drive input is constant minus some air drag.

Now that I know this as fact, I am working on a fully operational device that will acquire energy from somewhere. The device can be built but the energy somewhere is unknown at this point. Once the gyro is connected with a weighted lever as the driving force, the device would become a black box that could be mounted on a larger rotating disk and the weighted arm would supply a driving force into the gyro while the gyro provides it's own counter rotational force. (as I have already shown possible)

The interesting question is the only thing that can keep it from working as designed, would be some force against the larger driving wheel, but because it is connected to the larger wheel by only a single pivot point on the wheel, there is no known means to resist the rotation.

So in fact the gyro will gain energy from the rotating wheel but cannot apply any resistance to counter this rotation.

I tried to change the design several ways to eliminate the need for a gyro, but they all end creating a path for drive resistance. Using the gyro seems to defy the problem and make overunity possible.

In the end it will need to be built to know for sure. At this point I am trying to decide if I want the black box to be fully mechanical or if it should use electrical components to simplify some of the building.

I am leaning a bit to electrical using a generator and tiny drive motor because it offers more control and could already provide the energy to loop the device.
A fully mechanical device would still provide overunity proof but in the end, one would need to attache a generator to supply power to loop the device.

The design is moving forward and I am hoping to solve this soon. If it works, I will build another one to send to you for testing.







 

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