Author Topic: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped (Read 94006 times)

GT899 · « **Reply #90 on:** January 09, 2014, 06:09:22 PM »

Quote from: DreamThinkBuild on January 06, 2014, 09:01:21 PM

Hi Tinman,

Thanks, that is an interesting video. Is that DC to DC motor/gen?

I've tried various ways to get a motor/gen to loop and failed. You need 3x COP, as MsCoffman states, in order for you to generate enough power to run itself and run a real load.

Trying to decouple the prime mover from the load has been my main goal, also trying to find efficient generators. I recently acquired two small generators from China.

site: http://small-generator.com

The shipping is expensive to US. The company was really good answering questions I had and the quality of the generators was excellent.

The first is YAF 54 this one is not too bad it's small but needs high rpm to generate.

http://small-generator.com/buy/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=8

The second is YAF 80 this one is a little bigger but really nice output at low rpm. Just hand twisting it can make a 30watt incandescent bulb filament glow a dim red. Very low cogging too seems much less than the low wind Windblue I have. I'm pretty impressed with this one. Just need more time and warmer temps to see how it really performs.

http://small-generator.com/buy/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=10

I'm also putting up these two ideas here a different way of looping, these are untested but may be give someone inspiration for a new idea.

The wind lens is really interesting but I don't hear much about it. Here are two videos showing it off with a 2.5-3x gain on output over regular wind turbines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQexzNg_e9A

The next video is in Japanese but watch the numbers. Without lens 13watts output, with lens 37watts for same air flow/gen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGWCAvBD8eo

The idea I had was to take a efficient high velocity computer fan and focus it through the lens to another bladed fan as generator. The focus and lens can be made out of flowerpots or any other plastic kitchen container. This would partially decouple the output from the input. This design could be placed on a wide wire shelf so no real complicated support is needed for testing purposes.

Next video showing one fan running another, now if the output could be improved with a wind lens 2.5x or more could it aid in looping?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdhDq-FmM38

I also noticed the small-generator site had small hydro-generators that hook to a garden hose.

http://small-generator.com/buy/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=26

The other idea was to take a small solar garden fountain pump(6vdc@1amp or 12vdc@0.5amp 4ft fountain) and make a ring of generators. This one I'm not sure how much loss will be in the piping. It would be interesting to see how the high pressure from the expulsion side be aided by the pull of the low pressure of the suction side through the loop. It may be possible to combine the lens idea to make a water lens section of pipe and a spinning diametric magnet with blades attached. A water lens section can be 3D printed.

Too many ideas so little time.

Hi these are brilliant ideas. Do you think this might work for the air amplifier instead of flower pots?
http://gyroscope.com/d.asp?product=AIRAMPLIFIER

Also for the water loop generator what if we used mercury instead and propelled it in another way?

Thanks for sharing!

tinman · « **Reply #91 on:** January 09, 2014, 10:21:43 PM »

Quote from: turbogt16v on January 09, 2014, 04:30:11 PM

people don't feed the trolls ,
as proven in many themes TinselKoala is here just to troll you

And you couldnt be more incorrect if you tried newbie.

TinselKoala · « **Reply #92 on:** January 09, 2014, 11:03:04 PM »

Frank, the "experiment" is being done every day, all around you, in many many forms.

Look: I have a theory that, when the sun rises on February 29th, it will appear green until noon, then will turn blue for the rest of the afternoon. This phenomenon can only be observed while you are standing on your head inside the Tower of London. You say it won't? PROVE IT.

I'll pay you thirty dollars to go stand on your head in the Tower at dawn on Feb. 29th, and observe. I'll gladly accept your report as to the viability of my theory of Sun-Color-Dates. Sorry it can't be more, this is all I can afford for this world-shaking experiment.

Does this seem ridiculous to you? Too much trouble, even though you KNOW the answer already and it would be easy money for you? Would you feel entirely right about doing my experiment and taking my money?

Sheesh.

Take a coin funnel and erect a simple ramp from the exit hole you've drilled, leading back up to the top. Obviously this simple ramp can be much _shorter_ than the total path the coin makes on the way down and around the funnel. According to you, the coin exits the hole horizontally with excess velocity. It would be a simple matter, then, to have the coin just climb back up the much shorter ramp back up to the starting position,where it will arrive with a bit of extra velocity remaining. After the second loop, even more, etc etc. Imagine the delight of small children in museums all over the world when their coin refuses to stop, and eventually flies off the TOP of the funnel due to all the extra momentum it has accumulated.

Yet, with hundreds of thousands of coin funnels in existence and at least two major manufacturers selling them world-wide, nobody has thought of this simple way to demonstrate the OU magic. Right.

Maybe you should offer yourself as a consultant to these companies, Frank. I'll bet that they could perform your experiment in one day, for nothing.

After they stop laughing at you , that is.

TinselKoala · « **Reply #93 on:** January 09, 2014, 11:17:14 PM »

OK, Frank, just to show you that I have "good faith".... We have no funds to operate on at all, so in lieu of you simply paying us the full amount in advance, we will need you to buy some supplies for the experiment, up front. These supplies will be returned to you... in the event of a positive result that supports your hypothesis. (You know... the hypothesis that you have still not yet explicitly stated.)

So, if you will buy one of those small "toy" coin funnels that are in the link above, and send it or cause it to be delivered to us here in South Texas, we will set it up to perform the experiment you suggest. We have the apparatus necessary to measure the velocity of the coin in both conditions: simply dropped from the start height to the exit height as the "control" condition, and the velocity of the coin exiting a hole in the side of the funnel on a horizontal (tangential) path as the experimental condition.

If you agree, let me know and I'll PM you the address details. The toy funnel costs about 25 dollars US, I think.

Quote

You know also that when my son who specializes in finding out who people are said it would be no problem to find out who you were, you asked me not to and I agreed.

That sounds vaguely like a threat.

sarkeizen · « **Reply #94 on:** January 10, 2014, 12:40:54 AM »

Quote from: lumen on January 07, 2014, 06:45:29 AM

Ok, this is the question for a proof of overunity generator concept for all the real thinkers and math wizards.

Can't all gear systems be partially modeled by levers?

Grimer · « **Reply #95 on:** January 10, 2014, 04:40:59 PM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on January 09, 2014, 11:17:14 PM

OK, Frank, just to show you that I have "good faith".... We have no funds to operate on at all, so in lieu of you simply paying us the full amount in advance, we will need you to buy some supplies for the experiment, up front. These supplies will be returned to you... in the event of a positive result that supports your hypothesis. (You know... the hypothesis that you have still not yet explicitly stated.)

So, if you will buy one of those small "toy" coin funnels that are in the link above, and send it or cause it to be delivered to us here in South Texas, we will set it up to perform the experiment you suggest. We have the apparatus necessary to measure the velocity of the coin in both conditions: simply dropped from the start height to the exit height as the "control" condition, and the velocity of the coin exiting a hole in the side of the funnel on a horizontal (tangential) path as the experimental condition.

If you agree, let me know and I'll PM you the address details. The toy funnel costs about 25 dollars US, I think.

...

Thank you so much for agreeing to carry out the Bruce's Uncle experiment.

The easiest thing for me will to pay you the £2000 in advance and for you to make all the necessary arrangements such as choice and purchase of the vortex shaped cone, etc.

If there is money left over when you have deducted your consulting fee,
experimental work fee, materials cost and administrations costs then please give it to a charity of your choosing.

By paying you in advance I ensure that you are not out of pocket should the grim reaper come for me before the experiment is completed.

Perhaps I should explain in more detail why I want this experiment done.

As you know, there is a rumour that the Boys from Brazil have discovered gold at Sutter's Mill (metaphorically speaking). If the rumour proves to be true then in no time every Tom, Dick and Harry will be swarming all over the place. Before that happens I want to stake out the Bruce's Uncle's claim which is easier to mine than the Keenie wheel.

I'm a great believer in Nassim Nikola Taleb's "Black Swan" strategy of buying options on unlikely events. You might have even read his book "The Black Swan". I am buying an option on the unlikely event of the RAR rumour being true and the possible outcomes.

Think of it as insurance. A man goes on a dangerous skiing trip and buys 2000 quid's worth of insurance. When he gets home in one piece is he miserable? Of course not. He's delighted.

And if you find a null result I will be equally delighted that I haven't missed a once in a lifetime opportunity.

So many of my hunches have turned out to be correct over the years (the M1 and Ross-Spur motorway failures, the GRC debacle, the water vapour equations of state - even Steorn's 550 bhp motor - remember that?) that I don't want to miss out on this one.

So finally, if you agree to my above proposal where shall I send the cheque (or which Swiss Bank account shall I pay it into - only joking. I'm sure you wouldn't dream of evading income tax).

I apologise if my comment on finding your address seemed vaguely threatening. It wasn't mean to make my request into an offer you couldn't refuse though perhaps if I were you I might also have seen it in that light.

Personally I think Rosemary is a paper tiger. If she really wanted your address I'm sure she could have found it by now and arranged for the proverbial parcel bomb or equivalent - and no, I'm not trying to give her ideas.

Cheers

Frank

TinselKoala · « **Reply #96 on:** January 10, 2014, 06:03:02 PM »

@Grimer:
No, sorry, I really can't take money from you "in advance", much as I might like to. If you really don't want to do the experiment for yourself, or have someone local do it, then pretty much the only alternative from my viewpoint is what I suggested above: a small expenditure on your part to purchase a small coin funnel and ship it to us here. This way neither one of us is "in too deep". I owe you nothing except the experiment itself, and vice versa. After the experiment is performed and written up, you then can decide whether the knowledge is worth anything to you or not.

I'm hoping to be able to save you even that small expense, and us a lot of trouble, by showing a mathematical proof that you would accept in lieu of actually performing the experiment. I have engaged consultants to help in this effort, so we shall see what they can come up with.

sarkeizen · « **Reply #97 on:** January 10, 2014, 06:25:15 PM »

Quote from: Grimer on January 10, 2014, 04:40:59 PM

I'm a great believer in Nassim Nikola Taleb's "Black Swan" strategy of buying options on unlikely events. You might have even read his book "The Black Swan".

I did, although I did throw it against the wall a few times in the process.

IIRC Taleb doesn't advocate a particular "black swan strategy". He talks about his "barbell" strategy. Which is more about doubting the risk evaluation of fund managers and the like. However he doesn't really address the important point that the number of "black swans" will outnumber "safe bets" by many orders of magnitude. So how do we decide what to invest in?

Grimer · « **Reply #98 on:** January 10, 2014, 07:30:03 PM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on January 10, 2014, 06:03:02 PM

@Grimer:
No, sorry, I really can't take money from you "in advance", much as I might like to. If you really don't want to do the experiment for yourself, or have someone local do it, then pretty much the only alternative from my viewpoint is what I suggested above: a small expenditure on your part to purchase a small coin funnel and ship it to us here. This way neither one of us is "in too deep". I owe you nothing except the experiment itself, and vice versa. After the experiment is performed and written up, you then can decide whether the knowledge is worth anything to you or not.

I'm hoping to be able to save you even that small expense, and us a lot of trouble, by showing a mathematical proof that you would accept in lieu of actually performing the experiment. I have engaged consultants to help in this effort, so we shall see what they can come up with.

Thank you for your prompt reply, TK
Please don't trouble with the mathematical proof. I'm only interested in the experiment

As for the funnel, choosing that must be the responsibility of the experimenter, obviously.

I'm rather flabbergasted by your scruples in not accepting the money in advance - as a sponsorship for Myth Destroying, say. You are worse than my convert father. He used to worry when he cleaned his teeth in the morning before mass that he might have swallowed some of the toothpaste and broken communion fast (those were the days

). My mother, a continental catholic with a more realistic view of things used to have endless problems with him.

Most free energy researchers would bite my hand off for a sponsorship contribution from someone who admired their research.

Still, if 2000 is too much, how much is not too much? How much would not get you "in too deep"?

And I don't need to wait until the experiment is done to know how much it's worth to me.

The fact it is done is worth 2000 to me irrespective of its outcome.

Cheers

Frank

TinselKoala · « **Reply #99 on:** January 11, 2014, 12:42:56 AM »

@Grimer:
I hope you can agree that making a funnel from scratch is out of the question. Commercial units of the size we see in museums and malls cost more than your entire budget, usually. The only one that is at all affordable given your budget is this one:
http://www.spiralwishingwells.com/toy/index.html
I believe it is large enough to provide useful data, but I can't know that absolutely until testing has commenced, so it's somewhat of a risk.

You can purchase it on-line I think, and cause it to be sent to me. The company is located in Ohio so there won't be any Customs silliness or long shipping delays. If you actually want this to happen it is going to have to be this way. Let me know when you decide to assent; then I'll trust you enough to PM a shipping address, and you can place the order with the company, ASAP. If you write them a nice letter or phone them and tell them what you are doing, they might be interested enough to make a donation of the toy, even! (And the Moon might turn blue one day.....) Who knows.

There are at least two ways to get the coin speed data out of the system. Perhaps the very simplest would be to use a video camera and a precise clock to time, say, 5 or 10 revolutions of the coin when it is down in the neck of the funnel, at the specified height where the circumference is precisely known. This would not even require any modifications to the toy, except marking the chosen measurement level. The video isn't even necessary: the timing could be done electronically, by, eg, having the coin or ball shadow a photodetector once per revolution. Another way would be what we discussed earlier: putting a hole in the apparatus and measuring the coin's (or ball's) velocity as it "falls" horizontally out the hole. This can be done stroboscopically with the help of a camera, ruler and calculator.

You still haven't stated your testable hypothesis. I gave you one version, but we really need to agree explicitly just what the HUT is and what kind of data would either falsify or support it, before going further. One can't really design an experiment unless one knows these things. So I'd like to see your own statement of just what we are testing and how we will know what result we obtain.

Grimer · « **Reply #100 on:** January 11, 2014, 06:49:16 AM »

TK,

Now you're talking.

That's a very reasonable suggestion. In effect you have chosen the funnel albeit Hobson's choice. I'm quite happy to contact the company, explain what we are doing and pay all costs.

Carry on McDuff.

Cheers

Frank

lumen · « **Reply #101 on:** January 13, 2014, 12:36:56 AM »

Well, I went and built the gyro test unit to see if it was possible for a gyro to provide a stable platform against it's own driving force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBV6Fehml5Q
Sorry the sound is a bit low

tim123 · « **Reply #102 on:** January 13, 2014, 05:34:01 PM »

Quote from: lumen on January 13, 2014, 12:36:56 AM

I went and built the gyro test unit...

Hi Lumen,
that is a beautiful build... It's great to see actual research being done...

Are you working towards building one of your gyro-wheel things?

sarkeizen · « **Reply #103 on:** January 13, 2014, 06:13:10 PM »

Quote from: tim123 on January 13, 2014, 05:34:01 PM

It's great to see actual research being done...

I'm not sure how this is research. I get the idea that something was built but where exactly is the hypothesis? How is this outcome not expected or for that matter OU?

TinselKoala · « **Reply #104 on:** January 13, 2014, 06:32:33 PM »

That is really neat, a great looking build! Interesting interplay of forces.

Gyro forced precession is the closest thing to antigravity I've seen.

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Author Topic: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped (Read 94006 times)

GT899

Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped

tinman

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TinselKoala

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TinselKoala

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sarkeizen

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Grimer

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sarkeizen

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Grimer

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lumen

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