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Author Topic: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped  (Read 77221 times)

Offline vince

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2013, 07:56:24 PM »
That picture was from me trying inventacom's claim that a small auto radiator fan motor could power a generator and be looped back. His claim was that a small motor could power a larger load by using a gearbox to increase torque, then a second drive to increase speed. Well it did power the load but there was no way it would loop back and power the prime mover.  We followed his postings on a private forum and kept waiting for his input into our experiments only to find out he was fooling us all and that he had a questionable background. Ask e2matrix about this guy.

In any case I tried a multitude of motor generator combinations with different gearboxes and drives to no avail. Everytime I threw the switch to loop the voltage degraded so quickly that there was no way to self power. I gave up before trying to loop back thru a battery when we found out about inventacom"s past.

Vince

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2013, 07:56:24 PM »

Offline tim123

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2013, 08:07:59 PM »
Indeed

Hi TM, hope you're well... :)
  do you have, lying around the 'shop, a flywheel, bearings, a few pulleys etc? You are one of the most practical folk around here, and it'd certainly be more fun than watching TV... Even 'Christmas' TV...

I'm planning to set up a generator test-bench - for testing some DC motors I bought as generators for wind turbines. Just for fun... But the winter's slowing play... I'm planning on making a flywheel + variable ratio pulleys to act as the 'gearbox' between motor & generator.

Don't you think a motor / generator test-rig is just exactly what you need anyway? ;)

I'm also planning to make my own variable voltage & frequency drive - using a center-tapped site transformer, some DC  SSRs, capacitor switchbox, and a square wave gen... For running a 3 phase drive motor (& other fun).

The thing is about all this is that all generator manufacturers * test their products *. They give efficiency ratings etc... So the idea you can just hook these things together seems crazy...

Maybe this QMoGen stuff is all a case of: "Make the lie big enough, and repeat it often enough, and people will believe it"...? Maybe it isn't... I just don't know...

Regards, Tim

Offline tim123

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2013, 08:12:19 PM »
...I tried a multitude of motor generator combinations with different gearboxes and drives to no avail. Everytime I threw the switch to loop the voltage degraded so quickly that there was no way to self power...
Vince

Hi Vince :)
  thank you for your valuable input...

So you have actually had some hands-on experience... Would you be able to elaborate on the types of motors and generators you tried please? It would help a lot to get some actual specs...

As I said, I tried a rotoverter-gen, and it was about 60% efficient...

Regards, Tim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2013, 08:12:19 PM »
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Offline FatBird

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2013, 10:43:32 PM »
If I were going to build a Motor Generator, I would seriously consider a
weight lifter weight, rather than an automotive flywheel.  They come in
several weights and sizes.  Plus they already have a standardized shaft
hole in the center to fit popular bearing sizes.

                                                                                                           .

Offline vince

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2013, 11:37:06 PM »
Hi Tim

It was quite a while ago that I tried those tests. They were very frustrating!! I used
Auto fan motor to treadmill motor for generator with many gearbox and belt pulley combinations.
AC /DC universal motor with treadmill motor generator
Auto fan motor with 1hp induction motor as generator with capacitors for field excitation
Auto fan motor with 2hp induction motor as generator with capacitors for field excitation
1/2hp induction motor with 2 hp induction motor as generator
1\2 hp induction motor with 3000watt generator head
More combinations but I can't remember them all.
I have many cast iron sheaves that I used for flywheels including several large 14 inch double groove sheaves.
In many of these tests the units made considerable power, however whenever you tried to loop them back they always immediately loaded up the prime mover and voltage dropped like a stone. Even the flywheels made no difference other than a little longer run down.

I don't know about all these claims of self running machines but I do know that in my tests there is no way to run themselves if built to just send back power to the prime mover, capacitors or not.  If there is anything to these claims there has to be something in between the motor and generator to compensate for loss of power on switchover.  I was hoping that Gotoluc was onto something regarding this subject in his thread on reactive power. I have been following that and if he can get enough power out of his circuit without loading the motor it might be a step in the right direction towards self powering.  I once read somewhere that  in one of these motor/generators the magic was in a voltage stabilizer called a "stay-volt".  That may be a bunch of BS but I do know that without some kind of circuitry between the motor and generator you are just wasting your time.

As a side note: Do you remember the you tube video of that guy loopng a motor generator with a high power water pump and a pelton wheel on the generator.  Well I know everyone thought it was bunk but think about it for a second. When that machine was running at full pump pressure it was drawing x amps. If it was able to turn the pelton wheel at the required rpm to generate required power to run a specific load then any additional load or even a stall on the pelton wheel would not cause any more draw on the motor other than the x amps. That motor only sees the load of the pump. What happens to the water after it leaves the pump makes no difference on the motor. It still sees the pump as the load. A slow down of the pelton wheel does not reflect back on the motor and it continues to draw the same amps.  Makes you stop and think.  Maybe there was something to his demonstration.



Vince

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2013, 11:37:06 PM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2013, 04:04:09 PM »
Hi Vince,
  thanks for the full reply. It's much appreciated. You did give it a fair go...

I'm not sure what to make of Luc's reactive work. He initially presented it as a working circuit that delivered OU, but seems to have backtracked... It looks like he was making some measurement errors. Other than that - who knows...

I did see the video you referred to... It was interesting, and you're right about the fact that there can be no reaction on the source. I was taught that there's an electrical analog for all machines. So what would the analog of this be i wonder?

It's something I'd like to try one day. Centrifugal pumps are extremely efficient, and so is a pelton wheel...

I have a theory about OU - that spiralling fluids can convert energy from otherwise inaccessible sources. An example would be a tornado / whirlwind converting heat into velocity. Which I understand they do.

Another example would be eddy currents creating anomalous extra heating, or even causing nuclear fusion, by entraining other particles as they spiral inwards.

I can't apply it to this thread though... :)

Offline lumen

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2013, 08:42:19 PM »
Centrifugal pumps are efficient, except you are always accelerating new mass and that requires work.

I am thinking that the answer lies in centrifugal force as a means of transferring work with increased torque as shown in the first page of this thread.


The proof would be if a gyro could operate and accelerate if all input energy was provided at 90 degrees to it's rotational mass.
With the gyro wheel stationary, the input would prevent it from operating in that it would simply rotate the entire unit, but once started, the stability provided would prevent turning while the input increases the gyro's RPM, which would increase stability, to allow increased RPM, to increase stability.

My description is a bit lacking, but if it works this way, then would it not prove over unity exists in centrifugal force?
The fact would show that the stability force provided is stronger than the input torque force required to operate it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2013, 08:42:19 PM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2013, 11:23:59 PM »
Hi Vince,
  thanks for the full reply. It's much appreciated. You did give it a fair go...

I'm not sure what to make of Luc's reactive work. He initially presented it as a working circuit that delivered OU, but seems to have backtracked... It looks like he was making some measurement errors. Other than that - who knows...

I did see the video you referred to... It was interesting, and you're right about the fact that there can be no reaction on the source. I was taught that there's an electrical analog for all machines. So what would the analog of this be i wonder?

It's something I'd like to try one day. Centrifugal pumps are extremely efficient, and so is a pelton wheel...

I have a theory about OU - that spiralling fluids can convert energy from otherwise inaccessible sources. An example would be a tornado / whirlwind converting heat into velocity. Which I understand they do.

Another example would be eddy currents creating anomalous extra heating, or even causing nuclear fusion, by entraining other particles as they spiral inwards.

I can't apply it to this thread though... :)

Why not make your flywheel a linear device that is enclosed with fluid that is allowed to spiral so to speak?

Offline tim123

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2013, 11:43:18 AM »
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2013:12:21#1930.2F1960_QMoGen_and_1882_patents_--_It.27s_variants_have_been_around_a_long_time

Interesting, but an amplidyne requires input power - it doesn't create energy, it's an amplifier - used for control of power delivery...

Emmett Butler says " it had a 1 watt input and had a 10,000 watt + output " - but he's just looking at the control input, and ignoring the power input from the drive motor...

When people confuse stuff like this, what credibility can they have? Sigh.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2013, 11:43:18 AM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2013, 06:18:50 AM »
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2013:12:21#1930.2F1960_QMoGen_and_1882_patents_--_It.27s_variants_have_been_around_a_long_time

Interesting, but an amplidyne requires input power - it doesn't create energy, it's an amplifier - used for control of power delivery...

Emmett Butler says " it had a 1 watt input and had a 10,000 watt + output " - but he's just looking at the control input, and ignoring the power input from the drive motor...

When people confuse stuff like this, what credibility can they have? Sigh.

This is how a modern automobile alternator operates. The stator windings provide the output and a small control voltage on the rotor controls the rotating magnetic field.

It is very efficient at controlling the high current output of the alternator but it also changes the load on the prime mover.



Offline tim123

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2013, 11:30:29 AM »
This is an interesting link - in russian:
http://nshb.at.ua/load/svobodnaja_ehnergija/rezonansnyj_usilitel_moshhnosti_stepanova/21-1-0-589

Posted by wings on the Luc Reactive thread here:
http://www.overunity.com/14106/reactive-power-reactive-generator-research-from-gotoluc-discussion-thread/msg380409/#msg380409

Ignoring the hilarious mistranslation by google translate on the second line, the article is quite interesting, if a little hard to follow...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2013, 11:30:29 AM »
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Offline Grimer

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2014, 10:45:02 AM »
Hi Vince,
  thanks for the full reply. It's much appreciated. You did give it a fair go...

I'm not sure what to make of Luc's reactive work. He initially presented it as a working circuit that delivered OU, but seems to have backtracked... It looks like he was making some measurement errors. Other than that - who knows...

I did see the video you referred to... It was interesting, and you're right about the fact that there can be no reaction on the source. I was taught that there's an electrical analog for all machines. So what would the analog of this be i wonder?

It's something I'd like to try one day. Centrifugal pumps are extremely efficient, and so is a pelton wheel...

I have a theory about OU - that spiralling fluids can convert energy from otherwise inaccessible sources. An example would be a tornado / whirlwind converting heat into velocity. Which I understand they do.

Another example would be eddy currents creating anomalous extra heating, or even causing nuclear fusion, by entraining other particles as they spiral inwards.

I can't apply it to this thread though... :)


You might be interested in Bruce's uncle's toy. An example of Overunity being unwittingly achieved.


I'll dig out the details from BesslerWheel.com
===============================


Found it.


http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=118919#118919


You will notice it's also got a comment from a bod whose into electrics like you. ;-)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2014, 10:46:54 AM »
Oh come on Frank. You are citing a third party's report of a device that someone showed to an eight year old child, many years ago.

Quote
He had an uncle who liked to arrange, to invent. One day, old Bruce of seven or eight years, returned visit to the uncle who showed to the grandfather the new play that it had made for his children (it had six of them).  

Of course, like all such devices, it is no longer available for inspection, and there exists no further information or evidence of its performance other than the report of an eight year old child, filtered through at least one other party.

Quote
Its descendants do not know any more what became this play, it is probable that the uncle in recovered the parts as it was its practice to rebuild another thing, unless it does not sleep yet in an old farm, in dust… They do not remember either to have seen other apparatuses functioning in an autonomous way, nor of engine on the play, but know that the play had stopped afterwards weeks and simply set out again after being cleaned.

[/color][/color]Your standard of evidence is very deficient if you think that is evidence of anything at all other than an uncle's playing with some children.
 

Offline Grimer

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2014, 09:04:09 PM »
Oh come on Frank. You are citing a third party's report of a device that someone showed to an eight year old child, many years ago.

Of course, like all such devices, it is no longer available for inspection, and there exists no further information or evidence of its performance other than the report of an eight year old child, filtered through at least one other party.


Your standard of evidence is very deficient if you think that is evidence of anything at all other than an uncle's playing with some children.
 

I am.


And people buy lottery tickets.
I suppose you think they're stupid.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2014, 01:01:31 AM »
I am.


And people buy lottery tickets.
I suppose you think they're stupid.

Just the ones who _don't_ win!

(They don't call the lottery a "tax on the poor" for no reason.)

 

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