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Author Topic: Super simple way to see proof Pseudo Solid principle works using ring magnets  (Read 68463 times)

Offline Floor

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@Gammarayburst

   Looking at your Ring magnet example, which one might consider as the essential /  pure exemplification of a P. S. engine, I think it
marvelous that it takes advantage of what might be generally considered an "obstacle" in design.  That is to say, decreased magnetic
strength at distance.


                   cheers
                       floor

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Offline Floor

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@All

                      floors best wishes for the holidays :)
 

Offline gammarayburst

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@All

                      floors best wishes for the holidays :)
Floor, Please explain???
This really makes the project look bad???

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Offline Floor

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@GammaRayBurst
@All readers

For the record, the movie poster style JPG (Floor's latching overunity pseudo solid engine monstrosity)
was only intended as holiday humor (about my own failed design) and was / is not an attempt or
statement intended to  be critical of Pseudo solid principle, nor LaFonte designs. at all.

I started off, to look for / generate a set of magnet interactions that would cycle around
back to the same starting point in the mag arrangements, (with pseudo solid principles in mind).
I did arrive at a cycle, 16 steps later.  I  was actually pretty pleased with it (at around 3 in the
morning).  While the "design" does utilize magnets in suspension between 2 surfaces, it does
not utilize decreasing magnet strength at distance. And is there fore not entirely or truly a Pseudo
Solid based design.  This "design" my (floor's) design ATTEMPT, was / is a flop.  It fails in numerous
ways.  Rather a spectacular fail.... about the only good things I could say about it, I  said with the poster.

Because "FLOPSEM" does embody so many of the problems one may encounter in attempting a
magnet engine (problems elegantly reduced or eliminated in a true pseudo sold design), the
flopsem is a good.... bad example.

My sincere apology for the misunderstanding and I hope this has cleared things up.

                                           sincerely
                                                  floor



Offline gammarayburst

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Floor, Thanks For clearing that up, I was a little confused and it did cross my mind that it was just holiday humor.
Thanks again,
Butch

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Offline norman6538

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Gammarayburst

          Here is the  most recent draft, again for your review / corrections / preferences.

          Please find the attached file "Pseudo solid explained  -5" PDF


@ all readers

This last draft gives additional principles and explanations of them.  Educational to novices, good perhaps as a refresher to the more experienced.  I hope it is clear and simply stated enough  that it will be a helpful reference.

                                                            sincerely

                                                                             floor


Floor, did you make this document?
using the   file "Pseudo solid explained  -7" PDF it is very clear to me that a small force used to move the magnets can release a larger force from the permanent magnets and therefore
it will be OU.  You can see that the permanent magnet attraction can be easily turned on and off which is what an elec motor does except there is a large price to pay for that switching.
But here is the challenge now. Measure the work in and work out to show that it is OU.

But beyond that are two problems.

1. closer stronger, further weaker property of magnets.
You will need a cleaver way to compensate for that.
2. You will need enough extra to switch the magnet on/off and be ready for
the next cycle. 

These concepts are similar to the Flynn parallel path concepts.

But why has there been little discussion of what Butch has revealed here?
Wake up guys... He gave you the secret right in front of your eyes.


Norman

Offline profitis

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Quote frm norman:'whats up guys... He gave you the secret right in front of your eyes.'

Unquote

He gave the window but not any secret  but we are greatful for that.you have to come full cycle at a gain otherwise you remain underunity.

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Offline gammarayburst

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Hey Floor, what do you think about this design?
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2015, 06:36:59 PM »
Floor, guys, the movement of the magnets will induce a voltage current in the coil but the resulting coil magnetic field will not effect magnets due to the Pseudo Solid movement. To prove it, the device generates electrical power but if you were to put a voltage/current into the coils from an external power source it would not make the magnets "motor".
Thanks, Butch LaFonte

Offline dieter

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Hey Floor, thanks for the detailed PDF, guess I finaly understood the thesis.


Indeed some interesting conclusions and thoughts. Now for a practical application...


BR


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Offline dieter

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Ok, fellas, I hope this won't get ignored entirely, cause it took me some brainsweat to come up with it, plus some graphics fiddling on a pc that lacks of photoshop.


This is my contribution to Butchs' work and as far as I see, there is an energy gain.


Some details...


A certain force is required to bring the rotating magnet in close proximity of the static magnet, but the same force will be given back when it has passed by, although the force will be given to the rotor.


The rotating magnet is rotated by a motor, not drawn here, tho the shaft is visible.


In stage 5 the rotor will be held back, which compensates the gain of stage 4. Yet there is 2x gain in stage 2 and 3.


Of course, the rotating magnet(s) and the iron must be synched somehow, eg. by gears. There may be multiple rotating magnets, depending on the diameters of both rotations.


Is there a flaw?


BR

..

Offline gammarayburst

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To BR and guys, proof of principal design
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2015, 02:57:21 AM »
BR, I will study your design tonight. Very interesting.
I have also attached for everyone a proof of principal design.
Notice that one magnet at a time is transferred through the hinge area in one phase of the design.
The hinge area is there to eliminate most all flux transfer from upper bar to lower bar during the attraction phrase.
It becomes saturated due to the very large magnetic fields of the magnets because it's cross section is very small.
Thanks, Butch LaFonte
Note: Floor, you still with us?

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To BR and guys, proof of principal design
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2015, 02:57:21 AM »
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Offline gammarayburst

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Correction to drawing error shown on end view
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2015, 03:03:48 AM »
The hinge bearings do not go all the way across, they are flush with the bars.
Sorry, Butch

Offline gammarayburst

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To BR and all
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2015, 03:13:38 AM »
BR, step 4 is very interesting in that is has a slight flaw but with a little change could open up something big.
Let me look and make sure before I speak.
Butch

Offline Floor

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@GammaRayBurst

Yes I'm still around just busy these days. 
I need to study your most recent stuff more.

@dieter

Salutations, yes I did the Pseudo Solid explained docs. with GammaRaybursts Guidence.

@Profitis

Yes, measurements, measurements, measurements.

                                     cheers all
                                              flooir

Offline dieter

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@Floor, thanks again for the pdf, without it I wouldn't have ever understood  ;D ...


@Butch, let me know what you think is the flaw in step 4. I don't see it there.
To further explain my idea for an implementation:


Step 2: Rotor is neutral and therefor attracted.


Step 3: Rotating magnet passed onto Rotor mass, both, rotor and stator have same polarity now, repelling eachother.


Step 4: Magnet carrying Rotor approaches towards (rather) neutral end of stator, therefor attracts it.


Step 5: now neutral Rotor must continue rotating, but is attracted by now magnet containing end of stator. This is where we lose a bit of energy. The whole process is kind of 3 steps forward, one step back.


I think it would be useful to add a second stator with a rotating magnet at the opposite side of the rotor, that will give a net gain torque during step 5 of the right stator.


I kept on trying to find a flaw in the net gain calculation, but was unsble to do so... Well, however, it is a mechanical challenge to keep the losses low enough, mainly in the rotation of the magnet and/or the synchronization of said rotation with the rotor. Gears would be straight forward, but would introduce high friction losses.


I came to the conclusion that it's best to have only one rotating magnet on the stator and rotate it 4x the speed of the rotor.


The design is made with easy practical implementation in mind. I'd suggest 3-4 mm soft steel, rotor 20cm diameter, stator 10cm diameter. Magnet contactless between the steel plates, gaps 0.1 to 0.5mm. Magnet fixed to rotating Arm of the stator shaft (actually the stator isn't really static: it contains that rotating magnet with arm and shaft, and probably motor or gear. Only the steel "donut" is static.)
A simple test device for step 2+3 may be a first approach that makes sense.


BR (Best Regards)


Dieter

 

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