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Author Topic: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?  (Read 16472 times)

Offline e2matrix

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Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« on: November 25, 2013, 11:52:44 PM »
I made some tests with a 3 Phase motor based on a PDF document written by Dan Combine titled 'Radiant Energy and Over-Unity'.
In this document he describes a test using a 60 watt light bulb and a 3 Phase motor.   In his test the 60 watt bulb used only an additional 6 (actually he lists 5.8 watts) watts over what the motor by itself uses.   It seems my test resulted in even more interesting results.   The bulb is wired with one wire on the AC input to the motor and the other wire across one of the legs of the motor not directly attached to the AC input (single phase 120 VAC).   


In my test the motor (1.5 HP) alone is using 355 watts going through a digital watt meter.  The motor has a roughly 60 uf capacitor across two legs and is wired as you would do in a Rotoverter setup. 


With the bulb attached to the motor the power dropped to 320 Watts!   I measured the RPM of the motor with and without the bulb on it and it was the same in both cases (1732 RPM).   I also noticed the bulb seemed brighter when it was on the motor than when it was just plugged directly into a socket.   So I grabbed a Lux Meter and measured in the same location and at the same distance with the bulb on the motor and then by itself.   When the bulb was directly plugged into 120 VAC with no motor in the circuit it was reading 730 Lux.  When on the motor this 60 watt bulb was putting out 3630 Lux while using less power than the motor running by itself !


One thing I did not understand in his description of this test was his statement that his 60 watt GE bulb stayed lit when he disconnected one of the wires.   That didn't work for my setup nor do I see how that would be possible with a 60 watt tungsten bulb to be lit with just one wire in this setup unless he was holding the bulb and somehow grounding one side of it.   But I'll take my results as being 'interesting' at the least. 


Summary:  3 Phase motor wired Rotorverter style running off single phase 120 VAC uses:  355 Watts.
                 3 Phase motor wired Rotorverter style running off single phase 120 VAC Plus 60 watt light bulb (putting out about 5 times
                 the Lux it normally does when running only off direct 120 VAC) uses: 320 Watts
                  Motor speed stays exactly the same : 1732 RPM
                  Power used by bulb alone measured as 59.8 Watts. 
                  Expected power draw would have been 415 Watts for motor plus bulb.
                  Measured power draw was 320 Watts for motor plus bulb. 
                  Test with bulb and motor running at same time  but with the bulb directly across the AC input to the motor: 420 Watts and lower   brightness (730 Lux). 

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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 12:22:36 AM »
I also know my motor setup can be tuned to use much less power than it currently is drawing based on info from Rotoverter documents.   Motors even larger than this one have run on much lower wattage.   However the 60 Uf cap is the only one I have now that I think is safe to use with this motor.   I'll be scrounging for some more motor caps so if anyone knows a good cheap source please post here.   
More tests to come....

Off topic :   Does anyone find editing your posts very difficult here?   Entire page gets highlighted when you just want to change a sentence or you can't get things all on one line without messing up the formatting etc....

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 03:43:13 AM »
For anyone interested in the Radiant Energy and Over-Unity document by Dan Combine I put it up here in the Downloads area :
http://www.overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/541/
That document also shows the basic Rotoverter and capacitor wiring setup I'm using.

Since making the opening post I have tried a few more things and have gotten the motor to run now on 73 Watts by switching out the start capacitor after it's running with a smaller cap (run cap is about 5 uF).   It still runs at the same RPM.
Basic diagram of the setup described in the OP (doesn't show watt meter):

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 03:43:13 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 04:51:44 AM »
Thanks for the PDF.  ;)   Just glancing through looks pretty good.

Have you loaded the motor yet in comparison to normal running?

Mags

Offline totoalas

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 12:00:23 PM »
USING GOTOLUCS SERIES CAP without the mot
i was able to reduce the current amp draw
source 12 v 60 ah battery
dc ac inverter   1000 w
load   ac electric fan
with out cap    5.76 dc amp before inverter
with cap    4.5 amps  befpre inverter
using 40 uf   300 v ac cap   in series with live wire
Maybe with mot from gotoluc   I can trim down the amp draw  for solar loading

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 12:00:23 PM »
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Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 03:51:42 PM »
Stunning results really, E2M...

Quote
3 Phase motor wired Rotorverter style running off single phase 120 VAC uses:  355 Watts.
                 3 Phase motor wired Rotorverter style running off single phase 120 VAC Plus 60 watt light bulb (putting out about 5 times
                 the Lux it normally does when running only off direct 120 VAC) uses: 320 Watts
                  Motor speed stays exactly the same : 1732 RPM
                  Power used by bulb alone measured as 59.8 Watts. 
                  Expected power draw would have been 415 Watts for motor plus bulb.
                  Measured power draw was 320 Watts for motor plus bulb. 
                  Test with bulb and motor running at same time  but with the bulb directly across the AC input to the motor: 420 Watts and lower   brightness (730 Lux). 

Is the 3-phase motor normally 220V input (with 3 phases)?   Do you think that just about any 3 phase motor would work? can you specify the brand you used?
Pls show how the cap is wired in, if you welcome replication attempts.

The bulb - is it tied to the hot or neutral side of the 120 VAC input?
Did you use a Variac?
What kind of Watt Meter?

Thanks!  exciting stuff.

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 10:20:30 PM »
Hi Mags and Doc,   As far as loading goes I'm guessing from a hand test that this does not have as much torque as it would running in 3 phase mode.   But that's a known in Rotoverter configurations.   It has torque but I'm sure when this is running in normal mode from either 280 volt 3 phase or 480 volt 3 phase (it can work on either voltage) it will have a lot more torque and judging from the roughly 1" diameter shaft it's made to do some real work. 


Brand is Sukeb which is an Italian make.   I got a some help from UFOPolitics (one EF ) when I got the motor as he's a motor guru and part Italian ;)   Pics below show the wiring and it was setup as shown on the right side of the motor label.   That's your usual Rotoverter setup as shown in that document above.  The white wire and the dual fused red wire are what goes to the 120 VAC.   I tried putting the bulb across all combinations but I believe the best was across the white wire on the cap and the black wire coming in from 120 VAC.   I think the black wire was going to the hot side of the AC but I'm not sure and since I wasn't using ground it may not have made much difference. 


There may be an explanation for the situation observed that falls into normal electrical theory.   I'm not sure but it seems this may fit what has been described in the document as radiant energy or as Bedini has said radiant energy is one and the same as reactive power.   I will continue trying some other things with this motor setup as there are a lot of ideas I have in mind for it.   


I've got a good heavy duty Variac but didn't use it here as it's a panel mount type and I need to make an enclosure for it.   That's on the to do list ;)   Meter is a Kill A Watt model P4400.  The Cap is wired as in the document - pic below. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 10:20:30 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2013, 10:27:04 PM »
In the picture of the actual motor that shows wiring ignore the small 6 terminal block on the right.   That was for the automatic motor brake when running in 3 phase mode (it needs power to the brake or motor won't turn) so I uninstalled the brake and also the fan (fan is normally removed for a Rotoverter setup). 

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 10:37:43 PM »
A couple more pics of this motor and the wiring diagram it came with:
These pictures are before I rewired it and before the brake was removed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 10:37:43 PM »
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Offline MenofFather

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 10:43:26 PM »
Input is 350 W, output 60 W lamp?

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 11:01:01 PM »
One more for clarification of bulb wiring:


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 11:01:01 PM »
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Offline Here2njoy

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 11:14:56 PM »
I recall this guy doing some interesting stuff with a rotoverter....
http://youtu.be/xZDBtFLotbg
but now look at what he is up to....
http://youtu.be/VkGYPTonBKI
If nothing else he makes a good commercial  ;)

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 12:40:48 AM »
Yep that guy does some seriously nice work.   Just the looks of his latest setup is over the top coolness :

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2013, 01:19:19 AM »
Having been reminded about certain 'issues' that sometimes come up when working with Rotoverter style setups I won't be doing anything more with this project and I won't be making any more posts on this subject.   Call me paranoid if you like and I'm sure I am a long ways from having anything of real interest but at my old age I don't want to even have to think about having any problems due to my tinkering.   


Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2013, 05:36:03 AM »
Having been reminded about certain 'issues' that sometimes come up when working with Rotoverter style setups I won't be doing anything more with this project and I won't be making any more posts on this subject.   Call me paranoid if you like and I'm sure I am a long ways from having anything of real interest but at my old age I don't want to even have to think about having any problems due to my tinkering.

So sorry to hear this.  You were bringing such HOPE. 
Are we to be silenced by fear then?  I truly feel for you and our community.  We need to think to solutions to this intimidation issue - and we have recent examples of  ' selling out' and signing an NDA.

Have you seen the Hunger Games 2 trailer?  Perhaps we can get some ideas:

"I don't want you to get hurt"
"Something's different" "What?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkvUNfySGQU

 

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