Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Mechanical free energy devices => Reactive Power usage => Topic started by: gotoluc on November 15, 2013, 10:51:05 PM

Title: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 15, 2013, 10:51:05 PM
Hi everyone,

today is my 52nd birthday and I've decided to share the most promising research I have found to date.

For quite some time I've been studying the effects of reactive power using all kinds of circuit configurations.
The circuit that seems to have the most promising results is a Transformer and capacitor combination.
At this time I'm using a Microwave Oven Transformer (aka MOT)
I'm sure there are even better suited transformers but of all the transformers I had on hand at this time a MOT is giving me the best results and I will share more on the details in the next post.

Don't assume this is common information, since it's not!... I have search the internet and youtube and no one has shared the results that I'm about to give. Also, I've been sharing my results with Gyula (in case I miss something) he is a well respected researcher.
He also could not find anything on the net of what I'm about to share. Gyula was also quite surprised of the results of the test as he thought the opposite would happen.
I'm sure this isn't a new discovery!... and most likely is the operating principle of many OU devices you have seen in videos or been hearing about.
However, those who have found this effect are not sharing and are probably of the same mindset as 99% of the world's population and think to make profit first rather than helping those how have much less than them let alone thinking of helping our environment.

I have always promised myself to share all so here it is.
I only ask one thing from you and it's not difficult to do. If after viewing my video demonstration you see no value to what I share then please move on and don't bother wasting another minute of your time.
If you don't understand what is being shared! that's not a problem but I ask you stay in the background and keep looking at the updates and look at the posts of those who do understand and are willing to participate in developing this to its full potential.
In time it may come clear to you and possibly a list of the exact parts and where to buy them once a device is perfected.
If you can't build anything that's also not a problem as someone may offer a built device for you to buy. There's room for everyone but please lets keep this topic clean.

Also, please note,  I make no claims of OU... all I suggest is by using certain values of electrical components (which usually cause losses) adjusting and connecting them in a certain way, one could remove the Lenz effect on a load connected to a generator. Also, by using such a circuit on the input (prime mover) one could also reduce the input power by 50% (as demonstrated in my video) or up to 100% if you can develop a circuit that would make a better phase shift then my circuit used in test 1 video demo.
If this does not attract you please move on and don't waste your time watching this 30 minute video.
As far as I know this is the first ever video demonstration with an explanation of the benefits of a reactive power load on a generator.
Also, I'm not hiding anything in a box!  all is in the open and details given.

Link to video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM)

In the next post I'll include some more details on the effect of using a MOT and capacitors and include some scope shots of test 1 video.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 15, 2013, 10:52:05 PM
Below you will find the scope shots of the video demonstration.

An oscilloscope is needed to experiment with reactive power as without it you would be working in the dark.
On the low voltage side of MOT primary you will need a Series Capacitor. It can be many different values of AC Capacitors capable of 220vac which you connect in parallel to make the value you need to get the best current and phase shift (90 degrees is ideal).
You should have many cap values from 1uf to 60uf to combine them to find the ideal value plus or minus 1uf.
I suggest starting around 20uf on 220v MOT's and 40uf on 120v MOT's
Please note that even if you combine caps together to get a certain uf value, that Capacitor bank will be connected in Series to the MOT primary.
For the high voltage side of the MOT you will need many HV 2000vac rated caps of small uf values like .22uf or even smaller as small changes make big differences between the secondary and primary. You can even get good results by shorting the secondary as it's self capacitance maybe enough. So maybe Bifilar winding could also be looked at as a secondary which could have its own self capacitance and require no external caps. But like I say you can just try it shorted at first or attach a resistive load if you're using it as output. Also, best to use high resistance between 300 to 1000 ohms. Each MOT has it's ideal load to get max power out and keeping phase at ideal position.

Tuning to be most efficiency like 0 watts input with10 watts out (which I've done) you will need a perfect 90 degrees phase shift.
 It's not easy to do, since as as soon as you connect a load be it Inductive or Resistive our friend Lenz wants to come for a visit. Mostly when it's Inductive!

Now for the microwave oven transformer (MOT)
Why a MOT?... well, it can work with other transformers but my best test results so far was a transformer with a high Impedance secondary (many turns), so naturally a MOT is better suited for this.
I think one could improve over a MOT by maybe using a Utility Line Step Down Transformer which is what could be on Valy's looped generator video (on side close to motor)? don't know if its a large capacitor or a transformer?

See for yourself, here's the link to Valy's looped generator video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qa3MmdqdQ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qa3MmdqdQ0)

These large utility transformers are designed to step down 7000, 14000 or more Volts AC to 220vac, so it may work better then a MOT? and should be able to maintain very large quantities of reactive magnetic flux within the core which should result in maintaining a next to perfect phase shift when a load (motor) is connected to the low impedance side. But again this would needs to be tested.
Please note that what maybe hidden in Valy box (secret to make the device work) could be a high voltage AC capacitor connected to the HV secondary of the utility transformer and its low voltage coil connected between the 600vac PM generator and the induction motor.  Once he gets it started and flips the switch the induction motor run capacitor is probably used as the primary capacitor.
I also could be wrong and the box maybe a transformer and capacitors of a welder as I have seen a few videos on YT that when a welder is operated it stops the utility meter and even makes it turn backwards:

See for yourself, link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcPKz7uEq-8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcPKz7uEq-8)

Anyways, all this needs to be tested to find the best setup

In my Reactive Generator test 1 video what prevented me to further drop the 50 watts used by the induction motor was the limit of my variac voltage output.
I know that may not make sense to you but when you experiment with this you may understand.
To achieve a lower power consumption I would need to get a better phase shift (closer to 90 degrees) and the way to do this would be to reduce the capacitance uf value on the series primary cap bank. However, that action will cause a reaction, so to maintain the induction motor speed I would have to raise the voltage of my variac but I was close to max at 150vac.
Don't be fooled! ... there's better result to be had.  I decided to keep it simple by using a standard variac. The potential of what this could become is what is inportant.
Once you start experimenting and get positive results you will better understand the potential. But I'll tell you, it's not as easy as I make it look in my video. It will take time to master this beast.

The other thing I've not mentioned is about the two MOT's I'm using in the video. They are from South Africa, so 220vac. I brought them back to Canada over a year ago because I was working on a reactive battery charger (this is how this all started) and since the Primaries are for 220vac they would have more turns and possibly a higher Inductance then our 120vac version.
My experiments have confirmed that a MOT with a higher Inductance primary requires a lower series capacitance value for the same amount of real power on the load to secondary compared to the 120vac MOT which needs double the cap uf value for the same output. So possibly less capacitive energy in the primary = less current being wasted in the transformer core as heat caused by eddy currents. I could feel the difference of heat between the two when I tested the 220v vs the 120v.
My best score so far on a reactive load on the output of the generator is around 20 Watts without the generator loosing RPM and raising the power requirement to the prime mover.
I chose not to demonstrate this in test 1 video as the you need 3600 RPM for the alternator to output 120vac and thought it was more important to demonstrate the effect of reactive power on the input prime mover (motor) then only a higher output power as I would needed much more voltage (as mentioned above) to get close to the RPM the alternator needs to output 120vac.
However,  if it would make you happy to see a reactive circuit connected to the output producing 20 watts at no cost to the grid input, then I can upload a video demo for your entertainment.

This is just the beginning as I'm sure with all of us working together we can develop this to a much greater potential. Also note that this could be used on so many applications like a car alternator producing power for HHO production at no cost (load) to engine.
I also think a solid state version (no moving parts) could be possible.
The application possibilities are endless.

To think that everyone trained in electrical or electronics for the past 100 years have been told that reactive power is not useful is hard to believe!... could this be so? am I dreaming?

For the next few weeks I may not be available to answer posts as I have to complete a job to make a little $ to keep living. So I encourage you not to post other than your experiment results in order to keep this topic clean and easy to understand for the new comers.

All the best with your experiments and please share as I have.
If you steal this thinking of self gain you will not gain anything and failed the test of what it is to be a true being of light.

Love all Serve all

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: penno64 on November 16, 2013, 03:14:52 AM
Many happy returns to you Luc,
 
Penno
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: romerouk on November 16, 2013, 01:48:24 PM
Happy birthday Luc!!!
I am going to try your discovery on my generator and let you know

Best regards,
Romero
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: ARMCORTEX on November 16, 2013, 03:59:58 PM
Thx alot man, quebec is proud of you.

I am trying to extract the essential here, So was there increased mechanical load or not and your input of motor felt nothing ?



Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Grumage on November 16, 2013, 07:37:38 PM
Dear gotoluc.

Very well done. Utilisation of reactive power.

One thing puzzles me however. I kept noticing the frequency was showing 60 Hz on your oscilloscope. Can you tell me where that was derived from?

As your drive motor never reached a speed of 3000 RPM (50 Hz single pair pole alternator) or 3600 RPM for 60Hz. I just wondered where this very steady 60 Hz signal was coming from?

Cheers Grum.

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: petersone on November 16, 2013, 08:17:29 PM
Hi Grum
The 60hz is coming from the mains via the variac, as far as I know.
peter
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Grumage on November 16, 2013, 08:47:08 PM
Hi Grum
The 60hz is coming from the mains via the variac, as far as I know.
peter

Dear Peter.

So there lies the real conundrum!! How come the signals were in phase?? I assumed that at least one of the scope leads was connected to the Alternator. Perhaps if a schematic is shown all will be revealed!!

Cheers Grum.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: e2matrix on November 16, 2013, 09:50:46 PM
Great work Luc and Happy Birthday!     I picked up a nice 1.5HP motor recently (3 phase) with the idea of doing some experiments along this line.   I think some of this is similar to what has been done with Rotoverters on the EVGray Yahoo group except I believe they are using capacitors to try to make use of reactive power BUT I don't believe I've ever seen anyone using a MOT along with Caps.    I think the combo of the Caps and transformer you have there is a very good way to get the balance needed to make use of reactive power.    While I think I understand your hookup could we get a basic schematic of input and output setups?   Values on parts are not needed as I know that will vary depending on motors and many things.   Just a basic schematic would be great.   
     
   One small item I think may help your results even more.   I suspect you are losing some power with the apparently small gauge clip leads you have feeding the Ryobi motor.   Maybe not much loss but I've made up some of my own clip leads using 12 gauge wire for such purposes.  Excellent video and even with the motor noise I could clearly understand everything you said.   I downloaded it for safe keeping too ;)   
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: romerouk on November 16, 2013, 11:54:05 PM
Here is a quick test i've done to confirm Luc discovery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUaNOf_IYBg
It also works with a normal transformer instead of the motor having a solid state version, similar with Stephanov transformer
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: FatBird on November 17, 2013, 12:05:02 AM
Can somebody Post a Schematic.


In some spots he has 2 Xfmrs & numerous caps & It's hard to see which wire goes where.


Thanks.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 12:18:06 AM
Thx alot man, quebec is proud of you.

I am trying to extract the essential here, So was there increased mechanical load or not and your input of motor felt nothing ?

Thanks,

Yes, that would be part of the essential. I was also able to drop the power on the input by about half and still output the same amount of power.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 12:20:27 AM
Dear gotoluc.

Very well done. Utilisation of reactive power.

One thing puzzles me however. I kept noticing the frequency was showing 60 Hz on your oscilloscope. Can you tell me where that was derived from?

As your drive motor never reached a speed of 3000 RPM (50 Hz single pair pole alternator) or 3600 RPM for 60Hz. I just wondered where this very steady 60 Hz signal was coming from?

Cheers Grum.

The Scope and power meter is only on grid side.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 12:25:13 AM
Great work Luc and Happy Birthday!     I picked up a nice 1.5HP motor recently (3 phase) with the idea of doing some experiments along this line.   I think some of this is similar to what has been done with Rotoverters on the EVGray Yahoo group except I believe they are using capacitors to try to make use of reactive power BUT I don't believe I've ever seen anyone using a MOT along with Caps.    I think the combo of the Caps and transformer you have there is a very good way to get the balance needed to make use of reactive power.    While I think I understand your hookup could we get a basic schematic of input and output setups?   Values on parts are not needed as I know that will vary depending on motors and many things.   Just a basic schematic would be great.   
     
   One small item I think may help your results even more.   I suspect you are losing some power with the apparently small gauge clip leads you have feeding the Ryobi motor.   Maybe not much loss but I've made up some of my own clip leads using 12 gauge wire for such purposes.  Excellent video and even with the motor noise I could clearly understand everything you said.   I downloaded it for safe keeping too ;)   

All the details you need are in my second post.

The induction motor circuit is very difficult to tune if you have no prior experience with reactive power tuning. I would recommend to start with the below test as you use the grid and a plug-in watts meter to first learn and you see results fast since I worked out most of this.

Start with a 25 watt 1k Ohm load on the secondary but no caps for now. Then start with about a 10uf Series cap on the primary and connect it to grid. Reduce or raise (if needed) the cap uf value until your power meter is at about 1 watt.  Then check your voltage on the 1K Ohm load and do the math. You should have more power out than in.

After that test, reduce your load resistor by 100 or 200 Ohms at a time and you will see you can add uf value to your primary and still stay at zero watts in. And If you raise the Ohms resistor your cap will need to be less to maintain zero watts.

You will find the ideal resistor and cap value which give you most watts out for zero watts in and you will find that each MOT is different.

After you get the hang of it, you can try working with the motor schematic (on next page) but it takes lots of time to tune to ideal levels.

All the best in your experiments

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 12:29:23 AM
Can somebody Post a Schematic.


In some spots he has 2 Xfmrs & numerous caps & It's hard to see which wire goes where.


Thanks.

All the details you need are in my second post. Also, read all my replies above.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: romerouk on November 17, 2013, 12:32:02 AM
This is how I did it and I believe it is what Luc did
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 01:12:21 AM
This is how I did it and I believe it is what Luc did

Yes Romero, that is the correct schematic for the input side to the Induction motor.

The induction motor circuit is very difficult to tune if you have no prior experience with reactive power tuning. I would recommend people to start with the below test as you use the grid and a plug-in watts meter to first learn and you see results fast since I worked out most of this.

Start with a 25 watt 1k Ohm load on the secondary but no caps for now. Then start with about a 10uf Series cap on the primary and connect it to grid. Reduce or raise (if needed) the cap uf value until your power meter is at about 1 watt.  Then check your voltage on the 1K Ohm load and do the math. You should have more power out than in.

After that test, reduce your load resistor by 100 or 200 Ohms at a time and you will see you can add uf value to your primary and still stay at zero watts in. And If you raise the Ohms resistor your cap will need to be less to maintain zero watts.

You will find the ideal resistor and cap value which give you most watts out for zero watts in and you will find that each MOT is different.

After you get the hang of it try working with the below schematic and know it takes lots of time to tune to ideal levels.

All the best with your experiments and please share your results

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2013, 01:14:19 AM
I think the attached drawing is closer to what Luc did.

In the video we can see that he is using one MOT for the motor
and one MOT for the generator output. At the mains he has
a "KillaWatt" meter and then a variable mains transformer.
I have omitted this in my drawing.

Luc, can you confirm that your setup is like in my drawing?

GL.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 01:22:13 AM
I think the attached drawing is closer to what Luc did.

In the video we can see that he is using one MOT for the motor
and one MOT for the generator output. At the mains he has
a "KillaWatt" meter and then a variable mains transformer.
I have omitted this in my drawing.

Luc, can you confirm that your setup is like in my drawing?

GL.

Yes, also correct and thank you GL for helping out.

Please note that you can combine caps in parallel to obtain a certain value but like I wrote in my second post, that cap bank is connected in series with the coils.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2013, 01:25:22 AM
Yes, also correct and thank you GL for helping out.

Please note that you can combine caps in parallel to obtain a certain value but like I wrote in my second post, that cap bank is connected in series with the coils.

Luc

Luc,

Thank you. Can you think of a circuit drawing for a solid state setup?

I was thinking of using a H-Bridge driven from 12VDC to a circuit that is tuned for reactive
power. Then to a output tuned for the same. Do you think something like this will work?

GL.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: e2matrix on November 17, 2013, 01:52:21 AM
Thanks RomeroUK and Groundloop for the schematics and info.   I had assumed that was how Luc is wiring things up but I really like schematics ;)   
gotoluc,  I'm sending you a PM with a document (or a link to it) that may be of interest to you in this study.   

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 02:36:00 AM
Luc,

Thank you. Can you think of a circuit drawing for a solid state setup?

I was thinking of using a H-Bridge driven from 12VDC to a circuit that is tuned for reactive
power. Then to a output tuned for the same. Do you think something like this will work?

GL.

Hi GL,

as you know I do have an H-bridge but unfortunately it doesn't work!... I think because the H-Bridge is not like an output of an Inductor, so it cannot deal with the return current (to cancel Lenz) of a reactive circuit. So inverter and electronic switching components won't work. The only thing I can think of is those old Inverters that used a output transformer... it may work?  but I don't have one to try. Don't you have one that you designed and built a while back?

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2013, 04:05:35 AM
Hi GL,

as you know I do have an H-bridge but unfortunately it doesn't work!... I think because the H-Bridge is not like an output of an Inductor, so it cannot deal with the return current (to cancel Lenz) of a reactive circuit. So inverter and electronic switching components won't work. The only thing I can think of is those old Inverters that used a output transformer... it may work?  but I don't have one to try. Don't you have one that you designed and built a while back?

Luc

Luc,

Yes, I still have the 40 Watt inverter that I did build. It uses a 1/2 H-Bridge (two mosfets) to switch
a toroidal transformer. I can get the same inductive output from a full H-Bridge by connecting a 1:1
transformer on the output. Will that work?

GL.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 04:23:27 AM
Luc,

Yes, I still have the 40 Watt inverter that I did build. It uses a 1/2 H-Bridge (two mosfets) to switch
a toroidal transformer. I can get the same inductive output from a full H-Bridge by connecting a 1:1
transformer on the output. Will that work?

GL.

You're up late!

I don't know if it would but I just realized that I could also add a 1:1 transformer to my H-Bridge and it should come the the same as what you have.

I'll try it and report back

Luc

EDITED

Okay, I can see people are getting confused and are trying to replicate my demo video. Don't start with that!  as it's very difficult and was to prove that the circuit is not fooling the power meter and also to demonstrate it has potential of looping a generator.

Start with the below circuit and instructions for your first test


The induction motor circuit is very difficult to tune if you have no prior experience with reactive power tuning. I would recommend people to start with the below test as you use the grid and a plug-in watts meter to first learn and you see results fast since I worked out most of this.

Start with a 25 watt 1k Ohm load on the secondary but no caps for now. Then start with about a 10uf Series cap on the primary and connect it to grid. Reduce or raise (if needed) the cap uf value until your power meter is at about 1 watt.  Then check your voltage on the 1K Ohm load and do the math. You should have more power out than in.

After that test, reduce your load resistor by 100 or 200 Ohms at a time and you will see you can add uf value to your primary and still stay at zero watts in. And If you raise the Ohms resistor your cap will need to be less to maintain zero watts.

You will find the ideal resistor and cap value which give you most watts out for zero watts in and you will find that each MOT is different.

After you get the hang of it try working with the below schematic and know it takes lots of time to tune to ideal levels.

All the best with your experiments and please share your results

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 06:24:13 AM
You're up late!

I don't know if it would but I just realized that I could also add a 1:1 transformer to my H-Bridge and it should come the the same as what you have.

I'll try it and report back

Luc

Okay, the H-Bridge and Isolation transformer does not work :P .... if it would there should be next to no change in DC current to the H-Bridge when I connect or disconnect the reactive circuit side of the Isolation transformer. But that was not the case. It went up when connected so I did the P/I & P/O power calculations of the increase and it was under unity.

I think I know what the problem is. Since the circuit is capacitive and current 90 degrees ahead of the voltage. I can see on the scope the current is crossing the zero line (going in the opposite direction of voltage) half way of through the voltage on time, so since the voltage is still on for the other half of the on time the current cannot go back to the source because the mosfet is maybe blocking itl. Do you understand?

Do you think it's possible to make an H-Bridge that could handle such a situation?

Thanks for your help Alex

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tinman on November 17, 2013, 08:18:56 AM
@Luc

So a couple of questions.

1-why the need for a generator for the AC input?
2-What would be the difference in just useing grid AC supply?-pictured below

If no reflection is shown on the generator/motor when a load is applied,then the same should apply when grid conected.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2013, 09:17:57 AM
Gave it my best try but no go :P .... if it would of work there should be next to no change in DC current to the H-Bridge when I connect or disconnect the reactive circuit side of the Isolation transformer. But that was not the case. It went up when connected so I did the P/I & P/O power calculations of the increase and it was under unity.

I think I know what the problem is. Since the circuit is capacitive and current 90 degrees ahead of the voltage. I can see on the scope the current is crossing the zero line (going in the opposite direction of voltage) half way of through the voltage on time, so since the voltage is still on for the other half of the on time the current cannot go back to the source because the mosfet is maybe blocking itl. Do you understand?

Do you think it's possible to make an H-Bridge that could handle such a situation?

Thanks for your help Alex

Luc

Luc,

Thanks for taking time to test out the H-Bridge setup.

>>Do you understand?
Yes.

>>Do you think it's possible to make an H-Bridge that could handle such a situation?
I do not know right now. Must think about this for a while.

GL.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tinman on November 17, 2013, 10:45:42 AM
So i tried the pictured below,and simply changed the generator fo a MOT running of the main's.
No matter what cap/cap combination i used(1.2uf through to 200uf)i could not get the current/voltage phase to change??? The voltage/current phase would always remain the same as without the caps.However,the power draw went up on the input,and P/out went down at the same time.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: forest on November 17, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
AT LEAST ! I tried to persuade people with bigger experience (and tools ) to confirm the very important factor. Actually it is all behind the whole thread about two transformers started by JackNoSkills some time ago.


Here is what I proposed to do : [size=78%]http://www.overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg372772/#msg372772 (http://www.overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg372772/#msg372772)[/size]


Actually gotoluc , you confirmed it in different way, but that also makes conclusions harder. I tend to disagree about the power returned back when current and voltage are 90 degrees out of phase, or rather - I agree that happen in primary but not in secondary.


My theory is quite crazy but I don't want to present it here as it naturally emerge from the results of proposed experiment with transformer and tank circuit. Please remember the book definition of transformer usage when evaluating results... ::) 


As I explained on energeticforum (my nickname on that forum is boguslaw) : reactive power is simply the resonance energy trying to escape and the only ways are via load and back to power source through the transmission lines.


Anyone willing to check ?
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: forest on November 17, 2013, 11:45:56 AM
Of course bulb could/should be replaced by stable (because it would heat up) resistance power resistor.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: lancaIV on November 17, 2013, 12:22:10 PM
Happy birthday (normally the birthkind(=child) receive the presents ! ::) ) and thanks for the gift 8) (hopi no toxy)!
Bye-bye
            Oliver C.L

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2013, 12:37:13 PM
Gave it my best try but no go :P .... if it would of work there should be next to no change in DC current to the H-Bridge when I connect or disconnect the reactive circuit side of the Isolation transformer. But that was not the case. It went up when connected so I did the P/I & P/O power calculations of the increase and it was under unity.

I think I know what the problem is. Since the circuit is capacitive and current 90 degrees ahead of the voltage. I can see on the scope the current is crossing the zero line (going in the opposite direction of voltage) half way of through the voltage on time, so since the voltage is still on for the other half of the on time the current cannot go back to the source because the mosfet is maybe blocking itl. Do you understand?

Do you think it's possible to make an H-Bridge that could handle such a situation?

Thanks for your help Alex

Luc

Luc,

The attached circuit will probably suit the need for a solid state test circuit, for testing reactive power coupling.

GL.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tinman on November 17, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
Luc,

The attached circuit will probably suit the need for a solid state test circuit, for testing reactive power coupling.

GL.
Hi GL
Is this the circuit you will be trying?
I do have a few of those ferrite toroids.
Any idea as to why i couldnt get a phase shift in my posted circuit above?.Im thinking frequency is to low.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 02:15:33 PM
So i tried the pictured below,and simply changed the generator fo a MOT running of the main's.
No matter what cap/cap combination i used(1.2uf through to 200uf)i could not get the current/voltage phase to change??? The voltage/current phase would always remain the same as without the caps.However,the power draw went up on the input,and P/out went down at the same time.

Hi TinMan.

why would you do that test? when the circuit below is what I was saying to do?

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: bbem on November 17, 2013, 02:28:11 PM
Congratulations with your birthday and with your present Gotoluc!  ;D
You are one of a kind, wow.


Regards, Bert

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 02:28:16 PM
@Luc

So a couple of questions.

1-why the need for a generator for the AC input?
2-What would be the difference in just useing grid AC supply?-pictured below

If no reflection is shown on the generator/motor when a load is applied,then the same should apply when grid conected.

Hi TinMan,

Good questions.

The reason I made a video demo using a Generator FIRST! ... is to eliminate the naysayers that this is just fooling the plug in Watt meter and basically steeling from the grid.
But if you hook it up to a Generator and it has no Lenz effect on it, then right away it eliminates that argument.
So feel free to use the grid and know that you are not stealing power from it.

After doing many tests you will come to realize that there is a benefit to raise the input voltage above 220vac and lowering the series input cap. This is why Valy's device has a 600vac Generator.

Cheers mate

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 02:39:15 PM
Happy birthday (normally the birthkind(=child) receive the presents ! ::) ) and thanks for the gift 8) (hopi no toxy)!
Bye-bye
            Oliver C.L

Hi Oliver,

there is a country in this world who's ancient spiritual teachings are based on the correct way of life. There on ones birthday they give instead of expect.

Just though I would share

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 03:17:49 PM
I tend to disagree about the power returned back when current and voltage are 90 degrees out of phase, or rather - I agree that happen in primary but not in secondary.

Hi forest,

I was talking of the Primary and not the secondary when explaining that.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tinman on November 17, 2013, 05:13:33 PM
Hi TinMan.

why would you do that test? when the circuit below is what I was saying to do?

Luc
For the very simple reason that my scope shares a common ground with the grid,and thus i cannot hook it to any part of the primary coil to measure current or voltage. So i went for an isolated setup.I simply replaced what would be your generator,with the MOT. So i dont see what the difference would be?.
The only way i could do it with a single transformer,is to use an inverter and 12 volt battery.This might actualy come in handy.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 05:41:15 PM
For the very simple reason that my scope shares a common ground with the grid,and thus i cannot hook it to any part of the primary coil to measure current or voltage. So i went for an isolated setup.I simply replaced what would be your generator,with the MOT. So i dont see what the difference would be?.
The only way i could do it with a single transformer,is to use an inverter and 12 volt battery.This might actualy come in handy.

Okay, I see now

However, I don't think it will work that way as you are changing everything by adding another transformer.

Forget about your scope for now and just use the plug-in power meter as per my instructions.

Also, you should be able to use you scope without isolation if you make sure both your probe grounds are on the Neutral side of the grid.

Let me know if you get it working

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2013, 07:56:31 PM
Hi GL
Is this the circuit you will be trying?
I do have a few of those ferrite toroids.
Any idea as to why i couldnt get a phase shift in my posted circuit above?.Im thinking frequency is to low.

Hi Tinman,

I did test my proposed circuit. Did use a 10uF capacitor for C1. The output
was disappointing low. I also saw that the input current usage did
go up when I connected a load. So back to the drawing board, LOL.

GL.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: lancaIV on November 17, 2013, 08:05:01 PM
Is there an other -simplier ? -solution to stop and moderating the inrush current if not with an capacitor/condensator ?
Sincerely
              OCL
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Kator01 on November 17, 2013, 08:19:00 PM
Hello,

@Luc, one question:

What is the power dissipated at your 1 Kohm resistor ? Your Power-meter will not give you the correct value, because it measures the power in the whole system. May be I just missed it while watching your vid, but you need to measure voltage and current directly at your resistor ( must be in-phase) or you
measure the temperature and use a dc-supply heating up the very same resistor to the same temperature and register voltage and current on your dc-supply.
What I understand : you have achieved a reduction in power-loss in all parts of the system together but this does not mean you have less rms-power than the one dissipating at the 1 Kohm-resistor which is about 3.5 Watt.
Rotoverter-technique published by Hector does the same thing according to my understanding

You are showing oscilloscope-curves just explaining : Here are voltage and current curves .. but I miss the one across the load-resistor.
What is the exact frequency and the signal-form across this 1 Kohm-resistor ? Are there build-in rectifier-diodes ? We then would have 120 Hz pulses filtered through the cap into primary of the mot.

And of course you are using 50 Watt rms AND X Watt ??? reactive power from the grid. Power companies also have calculated factors in their prices for reactive power because any driver-motors of houshold-devices ( fridge, washing-machine etc) have a certain amount of reactive power. This is the reason why very big
industrial customers need to take care of reactive-power-compensation in their machines since reactive power also needs energy to be supplied to pump the power into the net and back to the generator again

@tinman: Concerning the  pic "First Test Setup"

You have three lines at your wall-socket. A hot wire, a neutral wire and a ground-wire. If you connect the ground-wire to the neutral wire and your automatic fuse

does not react because of high loop-currents, you can then connect  the Ground-Clip of your scope to the neutral-ground-wire-connection. But first you need to

find out the hot-wire.
How to do this: Connect one probe of your multimeter to the ground-wire and find with the other probe the wire which gives you a 120 V ac reading. Measure then the other wire- it must give you a zero-reading = neutral wire.
Then change  the switch of your mulitmeter to ac-current-mode ( > 1 A ) and connect the meter between neutral- and ground- wire. This will show you the loop-current. Change to 200 mA if your first reading indicates that you are below 200 mA

dancombine shows here in his transverter-tests the problems of extracting real power from an resonating LC-Tank.
Up to now they have not solved the problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOEdFI1qXCU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOEdFI1qXCU)


Regards

Kator01

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 08:26:28 PM
Hi Tinman,

I did test my proposed circuit. Did use a 10uF capacitor for C1. The output
was disappointing low. I also saw that the input current usage did
go up when I connected a load. So back to the drawing board, LOL.

GL.

Hi GL

do you have a plug-in meter and a Mot?

If so, can you do the simple (attached to grid) test I propose and report your results.

From there you may have a better idea of what would need to be done for a solid state version.

That way you will find your MOT's ideal cap and load resistor (for 50Hz) which should be easier for testing an input of a 50Hz from a solid state switch

Does that make sense?

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2013, 08:35:44 PM
Hi GL

do you have a plug-in meter and a Mot?

If so, can you do the simple (attached to grid) test I propose and report your results.

From there you may have a better idea of what would need to be done for a solid state version.

That way you will find your MOT's ideal cap and load resistor (for 50Hz) which should be easier for testing an input of a 50Hz from a solid state switch

Does that make sense?

Thanks

Luc

Luc,

Yes it makes sense. But I will not mess around with the mains. We do not have the same mains
over here as you do. I also do not have any MOT or enough non-polarized capacitors to play with.
I'm hope it can be done with solid state because 12VDC is my preferred voltage to play with.

GL.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: forest on November 17, 2013, 09:05:24 PM
Use bulb instead of resistor and measure lumens. I'm sorry that my proposition is still not taken into consideration  :-X
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 09:20:54 PM
At everyone,

STOP POSTING I THINK THIS OR THAT. I have warned you in my first post not to do this.

I have been testing this for a long time and also (as written in my first posts) had Gyula who has much more knowledge then me try to find what I could be missing several weeks before I shared this information. Gyula could NOT find anything wrong in my tests. However, to be 100% sure I had to convert my gas engine generator to electric so I could be 100% sure before sharing this. The first test I did once converted was not the demo video!! ... it was the single MOT test I'm asking you all to do first. Forget about the video demo for now. Just follow my instructions using One MOT, One Cap, and One load Resistor and attached to the grid using a plug in power meter and tune till you get One watt in, that's all. There's a reason to keep it at One watt input and in time you will understand.

Only post when you have done this test and have come to fully understand how to reach Max Power output with 1 watt input. Then add a variac and see how higher or lower voltages affect the circuit and re-tune for max out.

I have already written that Reactive power is not easy to work with. Its affected by small changes in Frequency, voltage, capacitor and load resistor values and most of all by introducing  another Inductor in the circuit.

From now on I will only reply to posts that I can tell you have done the tests.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 17, 2013, 09:36:34 PM
Luc,

Yes it makes sense. But I will not mess around with the mains. We do not have the same mains
over here as you do. I also do not have any MOT or enough non-polarized capacitors to play with.
I'm hope it can be done with solid state because 12VDC is my preferred voltage to play with.

GL.

Well all I can say is how can you build something for something you have not seen working?... and mostly for reactive power!... it's not like working with regular electricity.

Don't you have 50hz 220vac grid?

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on November 17, 2013, 11:19:17 PM

Quote:

" I had to convert my gas engine generator to electric..."




I take that to mean that this could possibly be attached to a politician...if so, wood this completely eliminate the heavy methane in the output ?


Seriously tho, thank you for generously sharing your research selflessly Luc...and a belated 52nd.

Regards...


Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: e2matrix on November 18, 2013, 12:05:12 AM
Well I tried the basic circuit but lacking the exact high wattage resistor and much in the way of HV caps I was limited in my test to this:
One big A** MOT with two pair of heavy gauge inputs and one thin gauge pair (HV output)
a 53 Watt 5100 Ohm resistor in parallel with another high power resistor that gave me 3.37K Ohms.
a non electrolytic 5uf 400 volt cap.   
First test using heaviest pair of input wires

Watt meter showed 1.0 watts although it bounced down to 0.9 watt sometimes
Voltage across the resistor combo was 0.985 volts

I tried measuring the AC current directly with a fluke 77 inline but it seemed inconsistent reading 0.05 amps one time and 0.01 amps another. 

Second test across the other pair of heavy input wires:

Watt meter showed 0.0 watts with output across the 3.37K ohms resistance reading 37.2 Volts

Hmmm......


I'll try measuring AC current shortly.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: e2matrix on November 18, 2013, 12:14:57 AM
Also note resistance of both pairs on inputs on the MOT measured 0.5 Ohms.   
Now in measuring the AC current directly (not a clamp on meter) I put the Fluke 77 in between the output and the resistor.   That completely changed the reading on the Watt meter from 0.0 watts to 6.2 watts.   The AC current was bouncing around a lot between 0.764 Amps and 0.811 Amps.   I need to go back with another meter to see what voltage I have now but if it's still around 37 volts then it certainly appears to be getting more watts out than in.   
....   With a Fluke 87 III and Fluke 77 together one on voltage across the resistor and one in series with the output and resistor I can't seem to measure voltage or current.   Current was jumping all over the place and voltage was jumping around too but appeared to be in the millivolt range.   Not willing to put my scope across this yet but I do find the above numbers interesting.   Taking values in a worst case scenario it would seem I've got 6.2 watts in and about 28 watts out.   In another calculation I believe I've got 0.4 watts out with 0.0 watts input.   Both interesting....
Just want to add that all of the above are not taking into account some of the more complex measurements and calculations that may be needed in an AC circuit like this.   
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 18, 2013, 12:40:21 AM
Well I tried the basic circuit but lacking the exact high wattage resistor and much in the way of HV caps I was limited in my test to this:
One big A** MOT with two pair of heavy gauge inputs and one thin gauge pair (HV output)
a 53 Watt 5100 Ohm resistor in parallel with another high power resistor that gave me 3.37K Ohms.
a non electrolytic 5uf 400 volt cap.   
First test using heaviest pair of input wires

Watt meter showed 1.0 watts although it bounced down to 0.9 watt sometimes
Voltage across the resistor combo was 0.985 volts

I tried measuring the AC current directly with a fluke 77 inline but it seemed inconsistent reading 0.05 amps one time and 0.01 amps another. 

Second test across the other pair of heavy input wires:

Watt meter showed 0.0 watts
Output across the resisatance showed 37.2 Volts

Hmmm......


I'll try measuring AC current shortly.

Okay, sounds like you are working on it.

You need to tell me what voltage and frequency your grid is if you want me to help you.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: e2matrix on November 18, 2013, 12:48:27 AM
Hi Luc,   I'm on 120VAC 60 Hz.    Thanks for any help here although I probably need to be done for tonight but will look at this more in the coming week.   


Go easy on GL.  ;)   I still think of playing with MOT's as similar to playing with loaded hair trigger guns.  I understand his concern as I'm not fond of MOT's either but for some things I'll take the risk.   
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 18, 2013, 01:02:27 AM
Hi Luc,   I'm on 120VAC 60 Hz.    Thanks for any help here although I probably need to be done for tonight but will look at this more in the coming week.   


Go easy on GL.  ;)   I still think of playing with MOT's as similar to playing with loaded hair trigger guns.  I understand his concern as I'm not fond of MOT's either but for some things I'll take the risk.

Your cap is way too low!  you should be in the 30uf range

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: e2matrix on November 18, 2013, 01:18:21 AM
I'll dig around but I don't think I've got much in high voltage caps in that range made for AC.   I think I might be able to put some eletrolytics back to back though.   I think that is supposed to work for something like this?   Two electrolytics + to - and - to + in parallel? 
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: poynt99 on November 18, 2013, 01:28:42 AM
No.

Put them in series, back-to-back. i.e. -/+ -> +/-.

And remember they should be the same value, and the new value will be 1/2.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: e2matrix on November 18, 2013, 01:30:36 AM
Thanks poynt - never tried this but I recalled somewhere you could do something like that.   Back to back series it is ;)
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: e2matrix on November 18, 2013, 01:56:50 AM
So as not to be deterred by anything resembling logic I decided to try another little test :)   Luc's basic circuit - watt meter -> to Cap in series with input on MOT.   But instead of a resistor on the output I put a bare fluorescent across the output of the MOT.   It glows bright while watt meter reads 0.0 watts input.   Fluorescent was stripped of all electronics and I think was a 40 watt incandescent equivalent output.   
I forgot to check until now the Power factor reading on that meter.   With this fluorescent in place of the resistor it is reading 1.0 Power factor.
I then checked with the resistor and it's also 1.0 PF. 

I know we've had fluorescent's running off almost nothing sometimes -- like the joule ringer but it's another fun little test to see what happens with this basic cap and transformer setup. 
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: geenee on November 18, 2013, 05:49:51 AM
Gotoluc,i am your fan of gotoluc's youtube user.i like many your videos.

secret of Motor-Generator Self-Looped with Usable Energy Left Over;

demo clip of gotoluc that shown,you can lower the watts to drive motor but just added capacitor in series to make shifting phase 90 degree but motor can run same rpm(2700-2800rpm).then the Usable Energy Left Over is from Capacitor.you have this for free and can run the load without consume more watts.

if you make Usable Energy Left Over more and more then you can make Motor-Generator Self-Looped.

when Gotoluc show Self-looped that will clear all naysayer.

thanks for Great information.
geenee
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Groundloop on November 18, 2013, 07:48:27 AM
Well all I can say is how can you build something for something you have not seen working?... and mostly for reactive power!... it's not like working with regular electricity.

Don't you have 50hz 220vac grid?

Luc

Luc,

Yes we have a 240VAC 50Hz mains grid. But we have two live wires and local ground.
We do not have distributed ground. Also I live in a rented apartment and the apartment is
connected to the house grid. On the input of THIS house grid there are are lightning
protection circuit AND a ground breaker circuit AND a power factor circuit. If I by accident
short circuit one of the live wires to ground, with as little as a few mA, then I will trip
the ground protection  breaker, and my landlord will be very pissed, sitting in the dark. So basically,
I'm not allowed to play with the mains AT all. That is the reason. The other reason is,  I want to
find out if it is possible to make a solid state version of your reactive power coil system. I do
not have to do your test because I have studied your video and I understand what effect
to look for in a LC circuit to get that LC circuit into a condition where the voltage and current
is 90 degrees out of phase. Hope you understand.

GL.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: totoalas on November 18, 2013, 11:08:17 AM
 :) Luc
Belated Happy Bday mate
It may not be related to ur circuit but KVAR works for me
putting two ac caps in parallel with my air conditioner has saved me lower my bill  .....
Also once the caps are just plugged into a normal socket   it slows the mechanical utility meter   on a 240 v 60 hz   ac mains
My suggestion is to combine with r circuit input and output having caps
 
thanks
 
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Dog-One on November 18, 2013, 02:32:37 PM
This is great stuff Luc.

Something hit me during experimenting which may be a better way to progress with this testing:

Instead of mechanically connecting the test motor to the generator.  How about this:  Get some other drive motor pulley system that can turn the generator at the exact RPM and give us the exact frequency output we desire.  Leave the test motor unconnected mechanically.  We only connect the generator to the test motor electrically.  Now we can focus on the exact components in a stable test environment that will reduce the test motor power draw on the generator to zero, fully reactive, 90 degrees out of phase.  If we get this part right, the generator RPM should remain stable regardless of whether we switch on the test motor or not.  We can also observe what happens when the test motor is subjected to frictional loading; if tuned right, there still should be no load on the generator.

Get that much done, then we can slip a belt on or what have you to connect the test motor mechanically to the generator.  Probably still good to retain a means of using the drive motor to bring the system up to speed.

Anyway, my point is that having this second motor should make it much easier to tune and to attempt self looping.

HTH,

D1
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on November 18, 2013, 02:46:06 PM
Luc,

Yes we have a 240VAC 50Hz mains grid. But we have two live wires and local ground.
We do not have distributed ground. Also I live in a rented apartment and the apartment is
connected to the house grid. On the input of THIS house grid there are are lightning
protection circuit AND a ground breaker circuit AND a power factor circuit. If I by accident
short circuit one of the live wires to ground, with as little as a few mA, then I will trip
the ground protection  breaker, and my landlord will be very pissed, sitting in the dark. So basically,
I'm not allowed to play with the mains AT all. That is the reason. The other reason is,  I want to
find out if it is possible to make a solid state version of your reactive power coil system. I do
not have to do your test because I have studied your video and I understand what effect
to look for in a LC circuit to get that LC circuit into a condition where the voltage and current
is 90 degrees out of phase. Hope you understand.

GL.

Okay GL, I understand and wish you success with your experiments.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: ingyenenergiagep on November 18, 2013, 08:10:16 PM
Chernetsky circuit.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: JouleSeeker on November 20, 2013, 02:34:37 PM
 This morning I checked comments at Luc's video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM)
(which you may wish to download if you're interested in this topic).

Note what he said yesterday about not posting anymore (at least for a while)  :'( -- and why --

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: JouleSeeker on November 20, 2013, 02:48:43 PM
For the record:

Hi everyone,

today is my 52nd birthday and I've decided to share the most promising research I have found to date.

For quite some time I've been studying the effects of reactive power using all kinds of circuit configurations.
The circuit that seems to have the most promising results is a Transformer and capacitor combination.
At this time I'm using a Microwave Oven Transformer (aka MOT)
I'm sure there are even better suited transformers but of all the transformers I had on hand at this time a MOT is giving me the best results and I will share more on the details in the next post.

Don't assume this is common information, since it's not!... I have search the internet and youtube and no one has shared the results that I'm about to give. Also, I've been sharing my results with Gyula (in case I miss something) he is a well respected researcher.
He also could not find anything on the net of what I'm about to share. Gyula was also quite surprised of the results of the test as he thought the opposite would happen.
I'm sure this isn't a new discovery!... and most likely is the operating principle of many OU devices you have seen in videos or been hearing about.
However, those who have found this effect are not sharing and are probably of the same mindset as 99% of the world's population and think to make profit first rather than helping those how have much less than them
let alone thinking of helping our environment.

I have always promised myself to share all so here it is.
I only ask one thing from you and it's not difficult to do. If after viewing my video demonstration you see no value to what I share then please move on and don't bother wasting another minute of your time.
If you don't understand what is being shared! that's not a problem but I ask you stay in the background and keep looking at the updates and look at the posts of those who do understand and are willing to participate in developing this to its full potential.
In time it may come clear to you and possibly a list of the exact parts and where to buy them once a device is perfected.
If you can't build anything that's also not a problem as someone may offer a built device for you to buy. There's room for everyone but please lets keep this topic clean.

Also, please note,  I make no claims of OU... all I suggest is by using certain values of electrical components (which usually cause losses) adjusting and connecting them in a certain way, one could remove the Lenz effect on a load connected to a generator. Also, by using such a circuit on the input (prime mover) one could also reduce the input power by 50% (as demonstrated in my video) or up to 100% if you can develop a circuit that would make a better phase shift then my circuit used in test 1 video demo.
If this does not attract you please move on and don't waste your time watching this 30 minute video.
As far as I know this is the first ever video demonstration with an explanation of the benefits of a reactive power load on a generator.
Also, I'm not hiding anything in a box!  all is in the open and details given.

Link to video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM)

In the next post I'll include some more details on the effect of using a MOT and capacitors and include some scope shots of test 1 video.

Luc

Thanks, Luc, for sharing what you did! 
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tinman on November 20, 2013, 03:53:49 PM
Well i hope he finishes that house boat,as that was a realy interesting project to watch.

Wish you well Luc in your journey.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: totoalas on November 20, 2013, 06:48:48 PM
Luc
thanks for opening the door ......   we can start from here .....  Romerouk has tested positively    .....
now back to work.....
 :)
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: nilrehob on November 21, 2013, 08:30:19 AM
Hi Luc,

I just saw Your new setup and I think its really cool!
Especially since I just got my hand on a MOT myself and have started scrambling for caps. Its in the air I think  ;)

Anyway, I just want to mention an interesting touch on this: imagine the voltage loss on a diode, no resistance but still voltage loss. To minimize the loss You work with higher voltage, right? The same goes with batteries when they charge, they are just like a diode with a voltage drop but no resistance! So creating any kind of HV LC-tank in resonance and a FWBR in series charging a battery seems to work great! Maybe the term would be reactive current?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3TsSD2l2ds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3TsSD2l2ds)

Next step for me personally is to duplicate/mimic Benitez patent nr 121561, please check it out http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB121561A.pdf (http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB121561A.pdf), its quite simple once You understand to skip the controller part at the top of the picture. It all boils down to the spark-gap creating HV HF which when in resonance and in series with a FWBR will charge a battery VERY efficiently. I think the spark-gap creating the HV HF resonance *ringing* may be where much of the magnification in Tesla's (and others) work resides. Please read the patent, I've never read a more explicit patent before. http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB121561A.pdf (http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB121561A.pdf)

In this video I do a test with a sparc-gap and light-bulb (instead of a FWBR and a battery):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-HGbAr398Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-HGbAr398Y)

/Hob

PS: BTW, the RotoVerter uses resonance as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM4zlLS_94A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM4zlLS_94A)
so resonance is a path well worth walking  :)

another PS: And Tesla was all about resonance too:
http://www.google.com/patents/US568178  :D
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: totoalas on November 21, 2013, 10:37:31 AM
Hi Luc,

I just saw Your new setup and I think its really cool!
Especially since I just got my hand on a MOT myself and have started scrambling for caps. Its in the air I think  ;)

Anyway, I just want to mention an interesting touch on this: imagine the voltage loss on a diode, no resistance but still voltage loss. To minimize the loss You work with higher voltage, right? The same goes with batteries when they charge, they are just like a diode with a voltage drop but no resistance! So creating any kind of HV LC-tank in resonance and a FWBR in series charging a battery seems to work great! Maybe the term would be reactive current?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3TsSD2l2ds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3TsSD2l2ds)

Next step for me personally is to duplicate/mimic Benitez patent nr 121561, please check it out http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB121561A.pdf (http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB121561A.pdf), its quite simple once You understand to skip the controller part at the top of the picture. It all boils down to the spark-gap creating HV HF which when in resonance and in series with a FWBR will charge a battery VERY efficiently. I think the spark-gap creating the HV HF resonance *ringing* may be where much of the magnification in Tesla's (and others) work resides. Please read the patent, I've never read a more explicit patent before. http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB121561A.pdf (http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB121561A.pdf)

In this video I do a test with a sparc-gap and light-bulb (instead of a FWBR and a battery):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-HGbAr398Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-HGbAr398Y)

/Hob

PS: BTW, the RotoVerter uses resonance as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM4zlLS_94A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM4zlLS_94A)
so resonance is a path well worth walking  :)

another PS: And Tesla was all about resonance too:


Hi
Thanks for sharing
Hv and pulse  combined in a magnet locked stator  coil  retained a charge  that eliminated the use of rotor     and lit 40 w of lighting   with water tap connection
This set up  also kept ringing even without power supply     
But most fascinating is from luc   that can make  multiple output

Cheers
Toto  alas
http://www.google.com/patents/US568178  :D
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: wings on November 27, 2013, 11:35:31 AM

interesting:
Conclusion
In retarded resonance, the energy extracted from the source is determined by the retarded
phase on the route. When the distance between the source and the receiver is ¼ of
wavelength, the extracted energy from the source is negative.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1104.0052v1.pdf



Conclusion
The current through a single wire phase retarded circuit is phase inverted. When such a
retardation circuit is combined with a power source, it can supply current to the load
resistor. The current supplied from the source is reduced so that the consumed power in
the load resistor is much larger than the supplied power from the source.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1110.0004v1.pdf


http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/lmdpio.gif
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/lmdtem.htm
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on November 27, 2013, 09:04:53 PM
http://vixra.org/pdf/1104.0052v1.pdf
http://vixra.org/pdf/1110.0004v1.pdf
http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/lmdpio.gif
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/lmdtem.htm

Mmm. This is getting interesting...

Nice one Luc. Not bad for an old man... ;)
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Farmhand on November 27, 2013, 10:12:10 PM
interesting:
Conclusion
In retarded resonance, the energy extracted from the source is determined by the retarded
phase on the route. When the distance between the source and the receiver is ¼ of
wavelength, the extracted energy from the source is negative.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1104.0052v1.pdf



Conclusion
The current through a single wire phase retarded circuit is phase inverted. When such a
retardation circuit is combined with a power source, it can supply current to the load
resistor. The current supplied from the source is reduced so that the consumed power in
the load resistor is much larger than the supplied power from the source.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1110.0004v1.pdf


http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/lmdpio.gif
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/lmdtem.htm

Negative energy equals negative work. Is there such a thing as negative work ? How is that described ? What does it mean ?

The extracted energy is negative. What a curious statement. So energy is taken out from the supply but it is negative ????

Conclusion equals one mans final opinion. Not fact.

..
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: wings on November 28, 2013, 09:12:50 AM
Negative energy equals negative work. Is there such a thing as negative work ? How is that described ? What does it mean ?

The extracted energy is negative. What a curious statement. So energy is taken out from the supply but it is negative ????

Conclusion equals one mans final opinion. Not fact.

..
in the text :
The positive value of P1(t) represents energy flow
out of the source. The negative value denotes energy flow inward the source.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on November 28, 2013, 10:21:19 AM
"A Novel Transformer with Compensating Coil"
 Xiaodong Liu 1*, Qichang Liang 2, Yu Liang 3
http://vixra.org/pdf/1204.0084v1.pdf

This is one by the same authors - it's a 'bucking coil' transformer - they say it'll power itself. It looks really simple, and totally illogical... The phrase 'retarded phase' seems to have been coined by the authors. I wonder if it's 'red herring' science for retarded people (like me)..?

The circuits in the other papers look simple to replicate, and one (1110.0004v1.pdf) looks a lot like what Luc is doing, but I'm concerned by the one I found above - it doesn't look right at all...

I'm also skeptical that simply moving a receiving antenna 1/4 wavelength from the source would result in OU (1104.0052v1.pdf). But again - it's an easy experiment...

JLN's LMD experiment is interesting, but if it's so obviously OU as claimed - why hasn't it been developed?

This whole reactive power discussion reminds me of rotoverters...
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: wings on November 28, 2013, 11:06:34 AM
"A Novel Transformer with Compensating Coil"
 Xiaodong Liu 1*, Qichang Liang 2, Yu Liang 3
http://vixra.org/pdf/1204.0084v1.pdf (http://vixra.org/pdf/1204.0084v1.pdf)

This is one by the same authors - it's a 'bucking coil' transformer - they say it'll power itself. It looks really simple, and totally illogical... The phrase 'retarded phase' seems to have been coined by the authors. I wonder if it's 'red herring' science for retarded people (like me)..?

The circuits in the other papers look simple to replicate, and one (1110.0004v1.pdf) looks a lot like what Luc is doing, but I'm concerned by the one I found above - it doesn't look right at all...

I'm also skeptical that simply moving a receiving antenna 1/4 wavelength from the source would result in OU (1104.0052v1.pdf). But again - it's an easy experiment...

JLN's LMD experiment is interesting, but if it's so obviously OU as claimed - why hasn't it been developed?

This whole reactive power discussion reminds me of rotoverters...

see hairpin circuit bulb in the water :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE5g6x6OOb0&feature=channel_page (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE5g6x6OOb0&feature=channel_page)

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDWF50fUoYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDWF50fUoYY)


http://www.overunity.com/7978/karl-palsness-hairpin-circuit/msg198582/#msg198582




Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: vince on November 29, 2013, 11:56:39 PM
Now that Luc has left I was hoping someone else could help me.
I've have been trying out the reactive circuit that Luc suggested to start with, that is a MOT with capacitors in series to the primary and a resistor on the secondary.
My question is this.
Once I tune this to lowest input watts, hopefully 0, what does one do for the next step?
Say you want to place an induction motor or some other load in series with the input what does one do on the output.  I'm not sure if this has been pointed out or not but I don't recall seeing it.
Do you leave the resistor in on the secondary or do you substitute a high voltage capacitor? If so what value do you use as you just tuned the setup with a certain value resistor? Do you just short out the secondary?
Anybody have any insight on this?



Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: totoalas on November 30, 2013, 04:52:50 AM
WITH O W INPUT  YOU CAN RUN THE INDUCTION MOTOR TO ROTATE THE GENERATOR AND SUPPLY THE INCOMING POWER LOOPED   :)
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Farmhand on November 30, 2013, 05:08:02 AM
in the text :
The positive value of P1(t) represents energy flow
out of the source. The negative value denotes energy flow inward the source.

Yeah I understand what you are saying, and the intended meaning. But my understanding of the English language, the part in bold of the conclusion statement is an invalid statement.

Extracted means "taken out", so the energy is taken out of the source, ok so if energy is taken out of the source it cannot go out and in at the same time just because it's called negative.

It is unnecessarily obscure language, and I get suspicious when that happens. It may be negative in a momentary sense but when considered as net energy over a period of many cycles it must surely be positive.

If it was true then there would be a source of free energy, do it !

Quote
interesting:
Conclusion
In retarded resonance, the energy extracted from the source is determined by the retarded
phase on the route. When the distance between the source and the receiver is ¼ of
wavelength, the extracted energy from the source is negative.

Cheers

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on November 30, 2013, 10:31:56 AM
I am refering to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o)

Hmm, when looking at Luc´s scope waveforms and his videos where he showed
the scope shots, it gets clear, that he just phase shifts the current with this MOT resonance circuit.
So he has voltage and current almost 90 degrees out of phase, so the power factor is almost zero,
but there is still flowing a big current !

This is the case what power companies don´t like,  because the power is flowing back and forth between you and the power station and it just heats the transmission wires....and you have to pay also for this reactive power
cause the house meters register them !

So this is why you pay less, if you can make all your loads in your house
have a power factor of 1= no phase shift between voltage and current and then the energy only flows from the power plant to your home , but not back again...
( So the power company can use smaller diameter lines for the transfer of the power)

So for this case I don´t see any energy gain here.
The question is, if Luc is also resonating the MOT transformer at his 60 Hz grid frequency via his LC
tuning ?

Also the case when he powers the motor-generator with the additional MOT and cap bank at the motor input
could mean, that he is just using only a special impedance matching this way by "pre-equalizing" the motor
with reactive current and then also only drawing reactive power from output generator via the output MOT...

At least this motor generator combination needs around 184 Watts to run in idle mode, which is a lot of wasted energy
there, so combined with all the phaseshifts via the MOTs he might just use some kind of impedance matching, so that it looks like the Lenz law is violated.

The question for the case where the MOT and Caps are connected directly to the grid  and the output load is  connected
to the secondary, it would be interesting to see how many Watts exactly are extracted via the 2 bulbs and
what exactly the phase shift angle is between current and voltage and what the exact voltage and current values are in this case...so we could see and calculate the power factor and see, if there is indeed coming some free power out there due to some kind of resonance effect or so..

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: lancaIV on November 30, 2013, 02:03:52 PM
    http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/ (http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/)
extracting : http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/A%20Solution%20for%20the%20Future.htm (http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/A%20Solution%20for%20the%20Future.htm)           
                  From  Mr. Lucero, Mr.Mallison,Mr.Halbach to Mr.Ettridge to you

and                                    Power charge saving circuit
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=66&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19880712&CC=US&NR=4757419A&KC=A (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=66&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19880712&CC=US&NR=4757419A&KC=A)
                                     and for lamp or motor (priority ? ??? ;)   :) )
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=19860225&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=4572992A&KC=A&ND=4 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=19860225&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=4572992A&KC=A&ND=4)

 
Sincerely
              OCWL


p.s.: electricity and energy fields ( this only from 1 inventor and his search/finding solution ideas ) :
  http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?compact=false&ST=advanced&IN=kazumi+masaki&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&PA=ken+hayashibara
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 01, 2013, 08:34:50 PM
Now that Luc has left I was hoping someone else could help me.
I've have been trying out the reactive circuit that Luc suggested to start with, that is a MOT with capacitors in series to the primary and a resistor on the secondary.
My question is this.
Once I tune this to lowest input watts, hopefully 0, what does one do for the next step?
Say you want to place an induction motor or some other load in series with the input what does one do on the output.  I'm not sure if this has been pointed out or not but I don't recall seeing it.
Do you leave the resistor in on the secondary or do you substitute a high voltage capacitor? If so what value do you use as you just tuned the setup with a certain value resistor? Do you just short out the secondary?
Anybody have any insight on this?

Hi Vince,

post your results of the test and I may help you

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: vince on December 02, 2013, 01:57:22 AM
Hi Luc
Glad to see you back.
I have been trying your circuit but I don't think I'm doing this right because my values are no where near yours. I've posted a picture below to show you my setup.  I have a lot of capacitors but no 1 k resistors so I will have to get some.
With a 4 and a 5 uF capacitor I get 1.1 watts and .2 volts on a 10 k o  resistor
With a 4 and a 5 uF capacitor I get .9 watts and 9.14 volts on 423 o resistor
I know my resistors are not correct but I thought I'd give it a try anyway.


I tried several induction motors in series with the circuit but the small capacitors would not run any motor
When I put anywhere from 130 to 450 u f capacitors in the circuit I was able to run the motors but there was no watt input reduction.
I was able to reduce watts in when I placed 2 110 volt MOT 's in series. It was only 10 watts but it did come down.
What I did find is that if you put a capacitor start motor into the circuit it would pulse and barley run.
Also when I ran the induction motors and loaded the shaft the input watts shot up just like the motor was attached directly to the mains
I know I'm doing this wrong, hopefully you can correct me.


Have you tried a capacitor start induction motor on your setup.  That was a disappointing result because it will need to run that type of motor if it is ever to be used in a looped motor /gen setup.


Vince
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 02, 2013, 06:53:12 AM
Hi Luc
Glad to see you back.
I have been trying your circuit but I don't think I'm doing this right because my values are no where near yours. I've posted a picture below to show you my setup.  I have a lot of capacitors but no 1 k resistors so I will have to get some.
With a 4 and a 5 uF capacitor I get 1.1 watts and .2 volts on a 10 k o  resistor
With a 4 and a 5 uF capacitor I get .9 watts and 9.14 volts on 423 o resistor
I know my resistors are not correct but I thought I'd give it a try anyway.


I tried several induction motors in series with the circuit but the small capacitors would not run any motor
When I put anywhere from 130 to 450 u f capacitors in the circuit I was able to run the motors but there was no watt input reduction.
I was able to reduce watts in when I placed 2 110 volt MOT 's in series. It was only 10 watts but it did come down.
What I did find is that if you put a capacitor start motor into the circuit it would pulse and barley run.
Also when I ran the induction motors and loaded the shaft the input watts shot up just like the motor was attached directly to the mains
I know I'm doing this wrong, hopefully you can correct me.


Have you tried a capacitor start induction motor on your setup.  That was a disappointing result because it will need to run that type of motor if it is ever to be used in a looped motor /gen setup.


Vince

Hi Vince,

I've never left!... been checking the posts to see what's going on. You're the first one to post that you've tried my recommended test. So, like I said I'll help those who try.

A 120vac MOT will need double the series capacitance value. I was using a 220vac MOT on 120vac, so in my case mine is in the 20uf range.

You will need to be in the 40uf range with your series cap on the primary and your 423 Ohm Resistor on Secondary.
You should also pickup a 1k Ohm Resistor to further boost your watts out.

Once you have it setup in the 40uf range try adding or removing 1uf at a time and do your calculations.

Using 120vac MOT's and a plugin watts meter I found they may not display the correct watts used. They are not designed to handle returned power. So believe it or not the watts you see are probably returned power and not used power. You will see what I mean after many days of playing around with the values. When I plug my circuit in the generator and have too low of uf value on the primary the generator induction motor can drop 10 or more watts. So that's why I telling people to adjust uf value till you get around 1 watt since you won't know if in the minus range till you cross the balance point.

The best test to confirm you're not using real power is plugging it in a generator like I built and or using an Oscilloscope.

All the best in your experiments

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 02, 2013, 08:32:04 PM
Hi Vince, I've never left!...

Hi Luc,
  I've been doing a few tests (will do more tomorrow I hope) - using a universal motor from a vacuum cleaner. So far the results are horrific...  ???

In standard mode - the motor uses 15-17watts to do 80Hz. Using an MOT and capacitor switch box (made for rotoverting) - it's more like 300 watts. There is no 'tuning' as such - more capacitance = more speed = many more watts...

Can you please tell us more about the motor you're using?

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 02, 2013, 09:01:14 PM
Hi Luc,
  I've been doing a few tests (will do more tomorrow I hope) - using a universal motor from a vacuum cleaner. So far the results are horrific...  ???

In standard mode - the motor uses 15-17watts to do 80Hz. Using an MOT and capacitor switch box (made for rotoverting) - it's more like 300 watts. There is no 'tuning' as such - more capacitance = more speed = many more watts...

Can you please tell us more about the motor you're using?

Regards
Tim

Hi Tim,

read what I have already written about attaching an Inductive load.

I will only help when you do the basic test. That's already difficult enough to master.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 03, 2013, 12:44:05 AM
Dear Luc,
I had another closer look at your video and your scopeshots again.

Well, surely you have done a lot of work with it, but here are some
flaws that you might adress:

1. Your input Watt meter measures the power input INCLUDING calculating in the Power Factor
cos Phi.
Normal House Watt Meters unfortunately don´t do this , so you pay also the reactive current that you
pump back to the power station and that is just oscillating between your house and the power station.

That is , why there are some devices that shift the phase angle always to zero to reduce your power bill.
(but this is a different topic)

2. In the scope shots you have around 36 Volts to 48 Volts input and always around 1.6 Amps input current
(Absolute values without phase shift relation)
and in the last scopeshot ,which you posted , the input Voltage is 148 Volts, so it is much higher, what you also state
in the video at around min 26:53 , but as you have scaled your div/cm on your scope differently it looks the same...
so a bit confusing on the first view..

But as I said, House Wattmeters only register the absolute values of the current and voltage, so your housewattmeter
will see in this last test an input of your red math curve at around 137.7 Watts.
(Multiply the red Math Voltage RMS with the red Current RMS values)
So you have to pay also the reactive power that you oscillate between your house and the power station.
Your digital wattmeter just only shows 49 Watts, but you have to pay 137.7 Watts...
so you are just oscillating the difference of around 89 Watts back and forth between your power station and your
drive motor there !


Okay, until now I only looked at what you have to pay for the power billed by your power station.
But this is a different question what is really happening in the circuit and if it will be possible to use this oscillating 89 Watts of reactive power
which oscillates back and forth between the power station and your drive motor without much loss and if we can tap
this power and convert it without creating too many losses into real power, that can heat your ohmic resistor as you have shown.

Okay, you oscillate 89 Watts reactive power and can generate from it around 3 Watts REAL POWER on a ohmic load.
So if you can scale this up and just only maybe oscillate 100 Watts of reative power between the power station and your circuits
and generate from it more than 100 Watts, you will have convinced me.

Surely it looks great, that the input power will not change at all, when at around min 27:30  when you switch on and off the load
and the voltage and current waveforms stay very stable !
But remember you oscillating 89 Watts back and forth and only get 3 Watts out from it, so maybe this is still in the measurement error
range...and it could also be some kind of Impedance matching, so that when you draw this 3 Watts of REAL POWER at the ohmic resistance,
the oscillating reactive power
could maybe be  reduced to 86 Watts, but the REAL POWER at the ditigal input power meter still stays at 49 Watts !
So you just oscillate less reactive power back and forth between you and the power station, but the REAL Power input stays the same at 49 Watts...
So this would be some kind of "reactive oscillation power impedance matching"....
I hope you can understand , what I mean...

It took me at least now 2 hours to ponder about it and write this now...but it is now very clear to me...!

Anyway, well done Luc, looking forward to see a scaled up version to see, if it is just impedance matching or if we can
really convert this way just "oscillating reactive power" to real ohmic heating power.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: vince on December 03, 2013, 04:10:50 AM
Hi Luc
I'm not sure how you're going to reply to Stephan's post but I did some more tuning as per your suggestions. I was hoping you could help me interpret them.
Is there a next step?
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 03, 2013, 05:42:10 AM
Hi Luc
I'm not sure how you're going to reply to Stephan's post but I did some more tuning as per your suggestions. I was hoping you could help me interpret them.
Is there a next step?

Excellent experiment work and documentation Vince.

What we can see form you data is your plug-in watt meter is not capable of giving you a linear reading!... we can see it makes sudden jumps in watts with a small change in capacitance. I get the same thing when I use a 120vac Mot but when I use the 220vac Mot it's much more stable since the primary inductance is double of the 120vac version. That inductance change makes a big difference on the shape of the current sine wave. It's very clean and easier for the plug in watt meter to read.

As you can see something is happening. I would encourage you to now start at 40uf and add 1uf at a time and see what happens. This is your ideal range. If your watt meter starts bouncing around display 0, 4, 8, 2 and so on you may be at the ideal balance point. You should be able to get 15 to 18 watts on your 1k Ohm Load Resistor.
If you had a generator like I have and plug in your Mot circuit you would see it causes no load to the generator.

There are other things that can be done with the circuit. Keep experimenting and sleeping on it and new ideas will come to you to try and see what happens.

Try to find yourself an old generator on craigs list or kijiji that the gas engine is not working or very old. Connect the gen head directly to a shaft of a 3600 rpm electric motor.  Just make sure the gen head has 220vac output as voltage will be what you want.

Wish you all the best in your experiments

Luc


Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: vince on December 03, 2013, 06:00:30 PM
Thanks Luc

Just for your info I can use half the capacitance values and achieve similar power out calculations by using 2 115 volt MOTs together.
I just wired the primaries in series and the output in series with resistor across the series output.

Vince
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 04, 2013, 05:46:19 AM
Excellent Vince!... now you're thinking of what else can be done.

Keep up the ideas and experiments

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 04, 2013, 07:02:27 PM
Hi Luc,
what do you think about my analysis ?

WHat about this other Video that Thane posted in the Facebook discussion ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o

I will have a closer look at it this evening and post another analysis.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Farmhand on December 04, 2013, 07:30:11 PM
Reactive power is not paid for by residential customers. The losses involved in it are calculated in the price of power. Plug in watt meters can and most do calculate power factor and display real power as well as apparent power, one of mine does both the other only shows real power not the reactive portion, it only shows what is paid for and compared to another meter that displays real power in Watts and apparent power in volts and amps as well as power factor.

It is best to try tune for a power factor of 1 not 0.0 a power factor of 0.0 means zero net power is supplied to the load and all reactive power is returned to the supply, none left for the load, so somewhere there is a mistake.

Cheers
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 04, 2013, 08:06:32 PM
Hi Luc,
what do you think about my analysis ?

WHat about this other Video that Thane posted in the Facebook discussion ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o)

I will have a closer look at it this evening and post another analysis.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan,

I don't know what to think of your analysis!... so I'm not going to comment on it.

What I'm interested in is development and not what people think can be going on.

Build it and see for yourself then post what you think

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 04, 2013, 08:20:39 PM
It is best to try tune for a power factor of 1 not 0.0 a power factor of 0.0 means zero net power is supplied to the load and all reactive power is returned to the supply, none left for the load, so somewhere there is a mistake.

Cheers

The only mistake here is failing to see the power factor is at 0.0 (see scope shot) and is still supplying 20 Watts to the load.

The generator test is also a way to confirm it. If a load is connected to a generator and does not reflect back to the prime mover then the power factor must be at 0.0

So why is there still 20 Watts going to the load?

If you don't believe me then do the test yourself.

I will no longer answer any other posts other then replicators who I feel need help.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: geenee on December 04, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
Reactive power don't make alternator(generator) slow down or consume.but power company tell you if you make reactive power that make heat to the wire or more load to generator.why??power company liar for making more money.if all of us use Reactive power then power company lose more money(because low watts consumption).

Luc shown very clear,i don't understand why someone can't understand it??
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 04, 2013, 09:29:12 PM
@Farmhand

Yes, that is what Luc tries to show using Power Factor of ZERO = 90 degrees phase shift to
generate REAL POWER of 20 Watts in his light bulbs as the second video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o
shows.

Well, here is my analysis of this second video:

1. First it would be nice, if Luc could provide his setting on his scope for the Math function,
so we can see, what excatly is multiplicated there and with what scale...

Also he made a small error when explaining the red Math function trace at :

min 2:32 where he said amps, but it must be Volts x Amps= Watts.


I have to go out now.

Will be back later...




Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 04, 2013, 10:23:08 PM
Also he made a small error when explaining the red Math function trace at :

min 2:32 where he said amps, but it must be Volts x Amps= Watts.

Yes, it is Volts X Amps. But what is important here is a perfect 90 degrees phase shift which = Zero Watts in

Please note that this is not just a conventional transformer circuit.

It is a High Impedance Secondary (short circuited) with a tuned Series Cap (around 48uf for 120vac MOT or 24uf 220vac MOT) on one leg of the Low Impedance Primary with a Series Resistive Load (bulbs about 10 ohms lit) on the other leg of the primary.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 04, 2013, 11:08:45 PM
Hi Luc,
well, please provide data, what your scope is exactly doing at the Math trace and what kind
of factors you did put in there ...

Also this second video has the same analysis as your first video.

It could be just a Impedance matching in the Reactive power input where the
REAL power stays constant.

So you really need to have at the input of your drive motor a measurement unit that can display
both Reactive power input and Real Power input.

Maybe you can do this via your scope by using 2 Math functions ?

As your digital input Watt meter only shows Real Power input and not Reactive power
input you really need 2 power meters there or use your scope to show it via 2 Math functions.

Then you can see, if you draw these 20 Watts at the light bulbs, if your Grid input power into the
drive motor will also increase for 20 Watts in the Reactive power input or if the relationship
of Reactive to Real power input will change for 20 Watts...

So you really need to see both power inputs in realtime at the drive motor input to make a final decision...

Hope you can do this via your scope, that would be the easiest way and better try to use a 1 Ohm shunt resistor
otherwise you need to multiply all your current values by 10 as it was the case in the posted 2 videos.
(For easier reading purposes)

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 04, 2013, 11:23:13 PM
Stefan,

The electric motor turning the generator head is not working on reactive power. So why would you need to check its phase, power and so on. It is connected directly to the 120vac grid, so the plug in grid power meter is quite capable of displaying how many watts it uses since it takes "normal" power factor into consideration.

You are either misunderstanding the DUT in the video or I don't understand how my circuit (connected to gen head) can have an Impedance match to the motor (connected to grid).

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: vince on December 04, 2013, 11:37:31 PM
Hi Luc
I'm not qualified to weigh in on the discussion going on but I have been playing with your circuit and found something very interesting. I'm not sure if it is explainable in electrical terms but to me it was a head scratcher.
The effect only happens within a 3 to 4 microfarad difference in capacitance on the input to the MOT. That is somewhere near the sweet spot that gives highest output power at the resistor.
What I did was feed the output of the MOT to the output of another MOT . I then took the input (115 volt)of this second MOT and fed it to a small induction motor paralleled with a capacitor.
Here's the strange thing.  When you load the motor or even stall it the watt meter actually shows a large decrease in watts being consumed, even on a dead stall. This effect goes away and increases watts in if you use capacitance that is below or above  the tuned value.
Is this normal or something that reflects this reactive circuit?


Vince

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 04, 2013, 11:55:16 PM
Hi Luc
I'm not qualified to weigh in on the discussion going on but I have been playing with your circuit and found something very interesting. I'm not sure if it is explainable in electrical terms but to me it was a head scratcher.
The effect only happens within a 3 to 4 microfarad difference in capacitance on the input to the MOT. That is somewhere near the sweet spot that gives highest output power at the resistor.
What I did was feed the output of the MOT to the output of another MOT . I then took the input (115 volt)of this second MOT and fed it to a small induction motor paralleled with a capacitor.
Here's the strange thing.  When you load the motor or even stall it the watt meter actually shows a large decrease in watts being consumed, even on a dead stall. This effect goes away and increases watts in if you use capacitance that is below or above  the tuned value.
Is this normal or something that reflects this reactive circuit?


Vince

Hi Vince,

a motor is an Inductive load. I have written that once you connect Inductive loads (anything that has a coil in it) you will change the circuit.

When you connect a motor and hold the shaft the coil will remain at the same Impedance but let it go and now its Impedance will change and so will the circuit tuning. So that's why under most load it will use less watts.

It will take some time to understand Impedance changes.

There are ways to build a motor that will have next to no Impedance changes when the RPM increases. I have shared such a motor design some years back.

It will be adapted  to work on reactive power and will give out large toque as it only needs a small input power since most of the power comes form the permanent magnets. This Motor design has next to Zero change in Impedance, Zero cogging from magnets and all of magnet power is transferred to torque

Newest motor update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eTQ49RcFKM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eTQ49RcFKM)

All the best in your experiments

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 05, 2013, 12:29:42 AM
Hi All,
maybe you want to try this selfmade wide range changeable electrolytic capacitor:

http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/els/varelec-el.htm (http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/els/varelec-el.htm)

 I hope it can stand the used voltage...

Use 2 Aluminium foils or plates for the electrodes, so they can stand the AC .

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 05, 2013, 12:42:09 AM
Stefan,

The electric motor turning the generator head is not working on reactive power. So why would you need to check its phase, power and so on. It is connected directly to the 120vac grid, so the plug in grid power meter is quite capable of displaying how many watts it uses since it takes "normal" power factor into consideration.

You are either misunderstanding the DUT in the video or I don't understand how my circuit (connected to gen head) can have an Impedance match to the motor (connected to grid).

Luc

Hi Luc, well,
as it is an AC motor surely it is inductive to the grid and has a power factor which is not 1.
So please also show exactly the change in power factor at this drive motor,
when you apply the load at the generator output.

Please also put a incandescent lamp in series with the drive motor, so we can see, if this bulb
changes its brightness, when you draw power from the generator.

You really have to exactly look at the input of the drive motor, what is going on...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 05, 2013, 12:54:53 AM
Stefan,

The electric motor turning the generator head is not working on reactive power.


Well , I disagree, when I am interpreting the Scope shots right...
In your first video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM)
at the end  at min 25:43
the drive motor used 137 Watts of total input power
and only 49 Watts  of this were REAL input power and the rest = 88 Watts
was reactive input power.

Please check this again.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 05, 2013, 02:13:13 AM
I think the 137 Watts input I was calculating was wrong, cause I just multiplied
both the Red MATH Voltage and red MATH Current Values in this scope shot;

http://www.overunity.com/14013/reactive-generator-research-for-everyone-to-share/dlattach/attach/129865/ (http://www.overunity.com/14013/reactive-generator-research-for-everyone-to-share/dlattach/attach/129865/)

But you can see here in this scopeshot, when you loook at the red Math sine curve, that its highest peak value
is about 306 Watts of positive input power and Minus 187 Watts of returned input power at its lowest value.

Not knowing, what the scope values in there in this Math function for factors,
I can not really say, if the Root Mean Square difference of these 2 values
is really 49 Watts, what the digital Kill-a-Watt type Meter had displayed, or if it is more...
Maybe if we calculate:

306 Watts peak input power / 1.41 = 217 Watts RMS input power

-187 Watt Peak Power returned / 1.41 = - 132 Watts RMS Returned power

(1.41 is the "squareroot of 2" factor for the RMS value)

So the difference is 85 Watts of total RMS input power.

But your Kill-a-Watt type digital Watt Meter just showed 49 Watts of REAL input power, so the Reactive Input power
must be the difference, so 36 Watts of Reactive Input power.

I hope this helps , or maybe I am totally confused and wrong ??

Regards, Stefan.


Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 05, 2013, 03:43:56 AM
Hi Luc, well,
as it is an AC motor surely it is inductive to the grid and has a power factor which is not 1.
So please also show exactly the change in power factor at this drive motor,
when you apply the load at the generator output.

Please also put a incandescent lamp in series with the drive motor, so we can see, if this bulb
changes its brightness, when you draw power from the generator.

You really have to exactly look at the input of the drive motor, what is going on...

Regards, Stefan.

All this was checked before.

When generator prime mover is connected to grid with scope probes attached to it with CSR to measure current, voltage and phase,  there is zero change to all when circuit is connected or disconnected to generator.

You may of missed the part where I wrote I was working with Gyula on this for about a month before releasing the information to see if I could be missing something. Gyula could not find anything and was very surprised to see it had no effect on the generator prime mover.

I am now done with the questions and won't be wasting my time to prove this or that. It is so simple to build since I gave all that is needed, so build it for yourself to prove or disprove what ever you want.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 05, 2013, 05:17:28 AM
Hi Luc,
thanks for the additional info.

I am stuck in some software work and private preparations etc...
but I have got a new digital scope and will next year try to replicate it when I find the
time.
Looks like a simple experiment with just the MOT transformers first...

Would be interesting to see, if with bigger transformers you could extract more and more power
by using less input power this way...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 05, 2013, 05:52:17 AM
Great Stefan,

I'm glad you see that a simple replication is the best way to understand the effect.

All the best to you in this Holiday Season and may you have success with this circuit in the New Year

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 05, 2013, 01:44:04 PM
Okay, Luc,
but if you or anybody else is doing this test again,
please also show us the power feactor on your grid Kill-a-Watt Wattmeter during all
measurement steps, so that we can see, if the power factor does change at the input.

Many thanks in advance and also have a nice Christmas season !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 05, 2013, 07:33:48 PM
Hi Luc,
  I've done some tests, but I'm not sure my results match yours... Please see attached schematic...

 - Can you tell me if the layout I'm using is right? Do I have the scope probes in the same places?
 - I'm using A-B for the math function...

Basic Findings:

 - At low capacitance, the 2 channels are out of phase
 - With enough capacitance, the 2 channels go into phase
 - Then adding extra caps - makes no difference.

 - Power factor, and wattage goes up as phases converge
 - Power thru the load (bulb) goes up as phases converge

It all looks pretty linear to me: When out of phase, less power usage is shown, but the bulb is less bright too (or off)... As the capacitance increases, the phases converge, power factor goes up, bulb gets brighter.

Some Details:

 - My variac uses about 10w on minimum.
 - In tests below, my standard for a 'lit' bulb - is where just one particular part of the filament turns red.
 - I used a separate DMM to measure AC voltage across the bulb.
 - Power factor shown by the meter varied between 0.5 and 0.9
 - Power factor generally increases as the voltage goes up.

Without Reactive Circuit:
 - Bulb connected directly to variac - lights with 19.5v AC
 - Wattmeter says 12.9W

With Reactive Circuit:
 - Bulb lights with 20v
 - Wattmeter says 12.6W
 - Note - I can increase the voltage from the variac to any amount, reduce the capacitance accordingly, and end up with the same voltage across the bulb, and (more or less) the same wattage shown on the meter. It varies between 12.3 and 13 W.

Do you have any comments or advice?

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 05, 2013, 09:12:57 PM
Hi Tim,

so it looks like you are on 220vac grid?

What are you doing with the MOT Secondary?

Luc


EDITED

I modified your diagram and added instructions
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 05, 2013, 10:46:05 PM
Hi Luc,
  the secondary was already shorted (said so in diagram).

I don't understand what the difference would be to use another resistor in series with the bulb...? It's a resistor itself... (In which case the probes you drew are in the same place as mine - so I did get that right then...)

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 05, 2013, 11:24:18 PM
Hi Luc,
  the secondary was already shorted (said so in diagram).

I don't understand what the difference would be to use another resistor in series with the bulb...? It's a resistor itself... (In which case the probes you drew are in the same place as mine - so I did get that right then...)

Regards
Tim

Hi Tim,

yes, I now see the Secondary says shorted!

A current measuring Resistor needs to be separate from the load and placed after it on the return Neutral side. It can be of a small value like 0.1 Ohm or even smaller when large loads are used, but the smaller the value the more precise its value needs to be to get good power calculations. You cannot use a light bulb as a Resistor to do any power calculation since its Resistance changes as it is being lit.

Make sure your probe Grounds are always together and on the Neutral side of the grid or you can fry your scope as they are usually common ground and grounded though the Grid ground. So you can imagine what would happen if you introduce them on the hot side... POOF!

Have fun

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 06, 2013, 11:45:16 AM
I've attached an image of my test bench - just for info...

Luc, I'm not sure what I should be looking for...

The capacitors don't seem to 'tune' anything - as I said - you just need 'enough' (for me, about 30uF) to correct the power factor, and any extra makes no difference.

Using less than enough (less than 30uF) - and the phases diverge. With about 5uF or less they're 90 degrees out. At this point there's very little power being delivered to the load, but my variac still draws some power (10-12w).

For my 13w in (to 'light' the bulb - one part of filament goes dull red), I get about 20v across the 50ohm bulb. (I know a bulb's resistance changes when it gets hot - but I'm not letting it get very hot.) I'm not sure if my DMM reads peak, or RMS, but either way the output power is 9watts or less. (8.8 if RMS, 6.3 if peak, I think)

So, with any amount of caps, it looks clear that I'm getting less out than I'm putting in.

So, questions:

 1) Do you have a cap switch box - so you can change values while the circuit is running? If not - how do you do it?

 2) Have you found that the phase is 90 deg out with very low capacitance, and converges as capacitance increases, to a plateau?
  i.e. Do your results concur with mine?

 3) It seems to me that a resistive load *requires* the phases to be together... I think the very definition of resistance means that the power has to be 'used up' (converted to heat). It's possible that an inductive load would be different. What do you think?

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 06, 2013, 11:52:59 AM
Close up pics of the cap switchbox, FYI...
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Farmhand on December 06, 2013, 04:01:51 PM
Hi Tim, Maybe I can help.  :) I use Two MOT's in parallel in the power supply of my Tesla coil, They measure about 236 mH each, but when in series they are of course double that. I'm on 240 volt grid as well. During the day with the solar array feeding the grid the voltage rises to over 260 volts. :)

A 240 volt MOT as compared to a 115 volt MOT would have a fair bit more inductance and so requires less capacitance to get resonance i think. But the lower frequency of 50 Hz means we need a bit more C than those on 60 Hz kind of thing.

For mine I require almost 38 to 40 uF across the MOT's in parallel but I forget how much when in series. 

The reason I put the capacitors across the MOT's and tune them to near resonance is that it makes the voltage drop less and the output more, it also improves the power factor (PFC).
I get up to 0.97 power factor on the supply to my spark gap Tesla coil, it varies with the energy used.

I'm not sure what exactly Luc tunes for, but my guess is the MOT's the caps and the motor make the circuit L/C way past resonance.

L/C resonance calculator.
http://www3.telus.net/chemelec/Calculators/LC-Calculator.htm

We must not forget that with 240 volts and so much capacitance these setups are extremely dangerous and definitely can be lethal. I employ line filters on the supply to the MOT's, they have a parallel resistor in them that bleeds the charge off the caps. 240 volts should pump twice the current through a body as would 120 volts. Risk is increased.

Cheers
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 06, 2013, 06:37:33 PM
Hi Farmhand,
  your Tesla coil sounds like a beast. I'd like to see it running. :)

I'm finding this all very interesting and informative. I've learned a lot already, and I'm grateful to Luc for bringing this up. I never really 'got' power factor, and now I can see it on the scope - and on my wattmeter...

I think this LC resonance calculator is better:
http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm

My MOT primary is 292mH, so a capacitance of about 35uF should give a resonant frequency of 50Hz. However, I had the secondary shorted - which made it exactly 50mH, (so a capacitance of about 202uF should give a resonant frequency of 50Hz.). Luc, can you measure yours?

I will have a play again later/tomorrow and see if I can observe the resonance... I think I need to try capacitance / load on the 2ndary too - and see what that does.

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 06, 2013, 07:58:22 PM
Update: I put a 1uF cap across the MOT secondary, and the bulb lit at 12.3w - i.e. better than without the reactive circuit. I tried a range of caps up to 100uF, but it didn't seem to make any difference after the initial 1uF.

I tried another 100w bulb on the secondary as a load. It didn't light, but the main bulb lit again at 12.3w - so it does help.

Both together in series or parallel - still 12.3w.

It looks like the circuit is doing a fairly good job of correcting the power factor from the variac...
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 07, 2013, 12:43:49 AM
Hi Tim,
well done.
Maybe oyu can also try to measure voltage and current BEFORE the Variac with your scope.

Be sure to not short out the grid´s hot pole, so put the current shunt into the ground pole
and not in the hot pole side !

Please post scopeshots or a Youtube video where you show this if you can.

Many thanks in advance.

Can you already verify that the power factor does not change at the input when you load the output ?

What pahse angles do you get between current and voltage ?
Are you on a 230 Volts 50 Hz system or 60 Hz 120 Volts system ?


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 07, 2013, 03:26:54 AM
I've attached an image of my test bench - just for info...

Luc, I'm not sure what I should be looking for...

The capacitors don't seem to 'tune' anything - as I said - you just need 'enough' (for me, about 30uF) to correct the power factor, and any extra makes no difference.

Using less than enough (less than 30uF) - and the phases diverge. With about 5uF or less they're 90 degrees out. At this point there's very little power being delivered to the load, but my variac still draws some power (10-12w).

For my 13w in (to 'light' the bulb - one part of filament goes dull red), I get about 20v across the 50ohm bulb. (I know a bulb's resistance changes when it gets hot - but I'm not letting it get very hot.) I'm not sure if my DMM reads peak, or RMS, but either way the output power is 9watts or less. (8.8 if RMS, 6.3 if peak, I think)

So, with any amount of caps, it looks clear that I'm getting less out than I'm putting in.

So, questions:

 1) Do you have a cap switch box - so you can change values while the circuit is running? If not - how do you do it?

 2) Have you found that the phase is 90 deg out with very low capacitance, and converges as capacitance increases, to a plateau?
  i.e. Do your results concur with mine?

 3) It seems to me that a resistive load *requires* the phases to be together... I think the very definition of resistance means that the power has to be 'used up' (converted to heat). It's possible that an inductive load would be different. What do you think?

Regards
Tim

Hi Tim

I'm quite sure your 50 Ohm load on the Primary is too high of Resistance. If you use the Primary side for load (like you are) then try a 10 Ohm Resistor.  If you chose a load on the Secondary side, then try a 1k Ohm.

If you chose to experiment with a cap on the Secondary it would need to be a small value, like 0.66uf or less. A small cap value on the Secondary is enough to maintain a phase shift on the Primary without adding a cap to it.

All kinds of interesting things to play with

All the best

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 07, 2013, 05:03:24 PM
Here are some images showing the scope, meter & bulb, at various capacitance settings.
 - The voltage from the variac is constant thoughout (40V).
 - Yellow is Channel A - which is before the MOT
 - Blue is Channel B    - which is before the Bulb

You can see the phases converge, and the voltage at the bulb increases, as does it's brightness.

You can see a maximum phase shift is obtained, and the adding more caps makes little difference.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 07, 2013, 05:33:24 PM
Hi Tim,
well done.
Maybe you can also try to measure voltage and current BEFORE the Variac with your scope...

Hi Stefan, thanks :)
  I'm new to measuring current & phase etc. and I must admit I don't really understand a lot of this... Would you be able to do a diagram showing where and how you would make the measurements? How many probes would it require ideally?

I know how I'd do it - but then I usually trip out the house RCDs... It doesn't improve my son's xbox experience :D

I don't think I have any low-value high-curent resistors for a shunt. I may have to buy a couple.

Quote
Can you already verify that the power factor does not change at the input when you load the output ?

Sorry, no. Could you please explain how you would test this? Do you mean perhaps a variable resistor as a load?

Quote
What pahse angles do you get between current and voltage ?

Hopefully the previous pics demonstrate this...

I'm still a bit confused by the idea of using a shunt to measure the current vicariously...

I know that in a tank-circuit, the current is at a maximum when the voltage is at zero, and vice-versa...

So would you use a shunt in parallel with the tank to measure voltage, and one in series to measure current?


Quote
Are you on a 230 Volts 50 Hz system or 60 Hz 120 Volts system ?

230V - 50Hz.

:)
Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 07, 2013, 08:41:19 PM
Short Update: Using a Universal Motor as a Load...

Now I have tuning... I replaced the resistive load with the motor from a vacuum cleaner, and now it has a sharp tuning point at about 40uF.

It seems to be most efficient when the voltage at the motor is maybe 25 degrees behind the source (phase difference). The voltage is higher than the source at this phase / capacitance.

I also tried removing the MOT, so the circuit is just the capacitor bank, and the motor, and it seems to behave almost identically. More tests needed though.

It doesn't seem to be improving the efficiency though... The motor runs much better on DC...
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 07, 2013, 10:34:25 PM
Hi Tim,
well done and thanks for the pics.
Did you use the circuit diagram that Luc redraw from yours one ?
So was this with the secondary of the MOT shortcircuited ?

Does your digital Watt meter have the possibility to show
power factor together with the input Watts ?

What kind of light bulb did you use ?
a 60 or 100 Watts type ?
This is probably to low in resistance to really see the differences, so it would probably be
better to start with a 25 or 40 Watts incandescent bulb.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 07, 2013, 11:22:43 PM
Hi Tim,
here is the modified circuit diagram
you can try.

Be sure to see exactly where your Neutral line is from your Mains Grid
and use there the 1 Ohm or 10 Ohm Shunt to measure the current.
If you mix this up you will blow your scope heads and maybe your Scope !!

So better do it with also another isolating transformer to begin with
as it will isolate the ground versus your circuit and then some errors
will not cause a short circuit to grid ground.

if you can, please also show the power factor together with the input Watts on your
digital Wattmeter.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 08, 2013, 12:28:36 PM
Hi Stefan :)
  Thanks for the diagram. So you just want to see the effect the circuit has on the incoming supply... I get it. I'll have to order a shunt today...

Unfortunately, my wattmeter will not show PF & Watts simultaneously...

I have some 60w, and maybe a 40w bulb too... Will play around with them later...

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 08, 2013, 04:59:05 PM
Hi Tim,
you can also use several higher resistances, e.g. 10 x 100 Ohm resistors in parallel to get a 10 Ohm shunt.
Just be creative.
If the shunt resistor is 0.1 or 1 Ohm or 10 Ohm does not play such an importan role,
you only need to change the multilplication factor in your calculation then to see the right input amps.

1 Ohm is surely the easiest, as you have a multiplication forcator of 1 so the value does not change in
the calculation and is easiest to see the right current without needing to calculate in a multiplication factor...

Surely the shunt resistor should be at least 10 to 20 times smaller than the coil impedance of your variac then
to not introduce too much error...

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 08, 2013, 05:47:13 PM
Hi Stefan, I've ordered a proper 5A, and a 10A shunt. They weren't expensive. It's always worth getting decent equipment...

Luc, perhaps you could tell us the specs of your motor? Is it fixed speed / brushed or induction / split phase or caps...? What's it's power rating?

It would be interesting to know the specs for the generator too...

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 08, 2013, 06:32:49 PM
Hi Guys, I'd like to just talk about what 'reactive' power is exactly...

Attached is a diagram of a parallel tank-circuit. This, I think, is the clearest example of what reactive power is, but I'd be grateful if more knowledgable members would comment / correct.

On the left we have the AC input - which is real, in-phase power, but of a small amount.

On the right, after the tank, we have AC 'output' which is fully out-of phase 'imaginary' power, where the voltage and current are both amplified by the 'Q Factor' of the coil.

So if the 'Q' is 100 - there's 100 x more 'reactive power' circulating in the tank, than there is going into it.

But, you can't use that power - because it's out of phase etc...

Does that just about sum it up?

Regards, Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: forest on December 08, 2013, 07:01:46 PM
Of course you can use it but that is different story.... I posted some time ago very revealing documents. Reactive power is crucial to maintain LINE VOLTAGE which is all needed to create current in load. So the assumption you cannot use reactive power is very wrong. Actually power station use the balanced reactive power to create situation when current in your house is generated for loads! That's how I understood that somehow covered knowledge limited to people operating power station.


Why my God oh why ,books do not let us know answers !? Ask simple , explain simple ! Transmission lines, why they had to have groundings in many places ? That's one question...
Where is coming the current , after doing work in my house ? According to Ohm law it cannot just dissapear , right ? Second question...
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: forest on December 08, 2013, 07:04:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP3T8w0gBm4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP3T8w0gBm4)
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 09, 2013, 12:25:01 AM
Well, if this works at 50 or 60 Hz with heavy MOT transformers , this can also work at 20 Khz for instance
with small ferrite transformers !

Then you could probably also use a small 9 Volts powered sine wave oscillator only using MilliWatts
and extract Watts of power via a ferrite joke transformer the same way...

Probably much easier to setup and play with as you don´t need the big transformers and also much smaller
caps only...

Has anybody tried this yet ?

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: forest on December 09, 2013, 08:19:46 AM
Well, if this works at 50 or 60 Hz with heavy MOT transformers , this can also work at 20 Khz for instance
with small ferrite transformers !

Then you could probably also use a small 9 Volts powered sine wave oscillator only using MilliWatts
and extract Watts of power via a ferrite joke transformer the same way...

Probably much easier to setup and play with as you don´t need the big transformers and also much smaller
caps only...

Has anybody tried this yet ?

Regards, Stefan.


I believe so. Keep in mind it would require very very precise electronics to do this. I expect no results or the blow of components are two opposite effect visible.  :P  Recall Steven Mark notes.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 10, 2013, 08:00:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP3T8w0gBm4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP3T8w0gBm4)

Hi Forest :)
  thanks for that link. Bad audio, but good content.

It 100% explains what I was observing with the Universal Motor - using just the caps switchbox to correct the power factor...

With the circuit 'tuned', the voltage at the motor *leads* the voltage at the source, and is a higher voltage. So the caps are providing the 'vars'... The waveform I see is what he shows in the vid. The vid also explained that a resistive load only consumes real power...


Luc, I've not observed any effect which suggests OU. The circuit seems quite conventional.

It does improve the efficiency of my motor by about 3% (1 watt), according to the wattmeter, but that's far from the 50%+ improvement you showed in your vid. But you were still putting 50 watts into your motor - which is a fair bit of power...

At the moment, there's nothing to suggest to me that anything other than power-factor correction is occurring.

It would be nice if you would share the details of your motor etc.  You did promise to share in the title, but haven't been very forthcoming with details, and I did notice that you'd ignored most of my questions.

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 11, 2013, 01:21:15 AM
Hi Tim,
yes, Luc´s circuits are still a bit different with the drive motor and
generator.
Have again a look at Page 2 and 3 of this thread for all the circuit diagrams.

Well would be cool,
if Luc can still adress the last questions and give us more infos.

A still refreshing lecture about AC and Power factor is this, also in a nice Indian accent
(especially if you watch this in the HTML 5 player in
youtube with 1.5 or 2 times faster playback):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S22cJ_aF9M

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 11, 2013, 02:16:04 AM
Luc, I've not observed any effect which suggests OU. The circuit seems quite conventional.

It would be nice if you would share the details of your motor etc.  You did promise to share in the title, but haven't been very forthcoming with details, and I did notice that you'd ignored most of my questions.

Regards
Tim

Hi Tim,

I have shared what is needed to get the effect. I have also recommended a basic experiment to start with and wrote not to try to hook up an Induction motor like I did in my video.
I have also recommended a better load Resistor value many times and said a bulb is not good.
If you chose to change things and say it does not work, that's not my lack of sharing!

I will help (if needed) after I see you are following the recommendations.

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: Goat on December 11, 2013, 04:50:01 AM
Hi Everyone;

I tried the basic test but not off the grid, I hooked up a MOT off of a battery operated inverter and found that the MOT was carrying an RF voltage, it tickles but don't bite,
any advice on how to get rid of the RF voltage off the MOT?  I didn't have the ground of the inverter hooked up to the MOT chassis, should I be using a 3 prong plug with the
ground plug hooked up to the MOT chasisis?  Would that make a difference since that inverter is only grounded to the battery and not to an actual ground?

Thanks for your advice.
Paul
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 11, 2013, 04:57:53 AM
Hi Paul, what kind of inverter did you use ?

Is it  a switching PWM sine wave converter ?

If yes, you might still use a low pass filter before going into
LUC´s circuit.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 11, 2013, 05:14:35 AM
Hi Everyone;

I tried the basic test but not off the grid, I hooked up a MOT off of a battery operated inverter and found that the MOT was carrying an RF voltage, it tickles but don't bite,
any advice on how to get rid of the RF voltage off the MOT?  I didn't have the ground of the inverter hooked up to the MOT chassis, should I be using a 3 prong plug with the
ground plug hooked up to the MOT chasisis?  Would that make a difference since that inverter is only grounded to the battery and not to an actual ground?

Thanks for your advice.
Paul

Hi Paul,

I have already posted the circuit won't work with an Inverter.

At this time you need to test with a generator or grid

All the best

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 11, 2013, 06:27:19 AM
Hi everyone,

I know that some of you are trying to replicate the circuit and effect. I also know it's not easy. I've been playing with this circuit for 2 years, so it took me a while to come to understand it.

Better to read all I wrote and take notes of what values I suggest, as the window for the ideal tuning spot is small.

To encourage you I made a video to demonstrate what the circuit can do on 240vac.

It also looks like (at this voltage) the transformer core could also be used to heat water.

Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNUGGBI55Hc&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNUGGBI55Hc&feature=youtu.be)

Below is the scope shot

All the best in your replication

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: tim123 on December 11, 2013, 08:04:01 PM
Hi Luc,
  I have a couple of questions about your latest vid...

1) Would you please explain in detail how your 'current probe' works.
 - I.e. is it (A) an actual current probe - with a sensing coil, or is it (B) measuring the voltage on the shunt resistor?
 - How does your 'scope show MilliAmps? (Most only show voltage.) How does that work?
 - How is it calibrated?

2) You seem to be multiplying probe readings from 2 different parts of the circuit(?) - as power used. Shouldn't the volts and amps be read at the same point in the circuit?

Regards
Tim
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: poynt99 on December 12, 2013, 04:05:41 AM
Hi Luc.

This is what I see:

Going by the scope shot above, the scope is telling us that the positive portion of the MATH trace is 78W, and the negative portion is 82W. In this case the difference is 4W, which would be the total average power being dissipated by the transformer primary, the bulbs, and the CSR resistor.

So to summarize, 82W is going into the circuit, and 78W is returning, yielding a net 4W (or thereby) dissipated in the circuit components.

Question: Did you invert either of the channel traces on the scope?
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 12, 2013, 04:58:54 AM
Hi Luc, well done,
but when I remember correctly I have learned at the university, that reactive current is also charged by the power company via the house grid wattmeter, as these meters are just mechanical meters measuring the absolute value of the current with its rotating Wattmeter disc. So lowering the current will get you more to a powerfactor of 1 ( where it is IN PHASE) and then you will pay less, cause then the current is also less and the Wattmeter disc is rotating slower....
Otherwise it does not make sense, that there are companies who sell these
voltage-current-phase-angle-corrector-devices  to lower your energy bills.

So please show the reading on your mechanical house wattmeter, when you have this circuit running.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 12, 2013, 05:27:22 AM
Hi Luc,
did you put into the scope already the factor 10 factor for the shunt current ?
As your shunt was 0.1 Ohm and your scope displayed 328 mA is this
already the real value or must it still multiplied with factor 10 ?
How does your scope display mA and not Volts ? Can you set it this way ?

Okay, when you alreafy have the factor 10 put in there into the scope then you have
a pulsating power of around 80 Watts going in from the Grid and being fed back to the grid.

If your 10 Watts bulbs normally would use around 0.84 Amps at 12 Volts = 10 Watts
they would have about 14.3 Ohms resistance. but as they only are fed here with 5.11 Volts
they only deliver about 1.8 Watts each, if the bulb wire resistor is still 14.3 Ohms at the
lower
voltage, which is probably not correct, as the wire resistance change with heat... so
lets assume each bulb is consuming about 5 Watt, so you have around 25 Watts running there.

Unfortunately you did not show the case when you disconnected the light bulbs, but then you must run the
caps and transformer without the bulbs, as the bulbs resistance must be shorted to compare then the phase angles...

This probably would melt the transformer probably pretty fast, so don´t do it too long...
Anyway, your mechanical power meter at your house would probably still register around 80 Watts, so
you would still for it...

Now it is time to find a solution without the grid and with higher frequencies to make this effect usable...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 12, 2013, 05:37:04 AM


Going by the scope shot above, the scope is telling us that the positive portion of the MATH trace is 78W, and the negative portion is 82W. In this case the difference is 4W, which would be the total average power being dissipated by the transformer primary, the bulbs, and the CSR resistor.

So to summarize, 82W is going into the circuit, and 78W is returning, yielding a net 4W (or thereby) dissipated in the circuit components.


poynt99,
you mixed it up !

The upper red math trace above the zero line is the consumption from the grid  , so 78 Watts is consumed and 82 Watts is returned to the Grid, so the circuit seems to produce still 4 Watts of overunity power from the viewpoint of the grid and pumps these 4 Watts  into the grid.

Therewhile the bulbs still produce around 10 to 25 Watts of real active ohmic heating light power and the transformer heats up from hysteresis losses , so the real heating  iron losses !

But still the power company charges you for using around 80 Watts via the mechanical grid power meter measuring the total abolsute current
value and not the complex mathematical value !
They measure, as if the same values of current and voltage would be in phase...
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: poynt99 on December 12, 2013, 06:27:07 AM
Let's wait and see if Luc answers my question about inverting one of the scope channels before you jump to conclusions that I mixed it up.
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 12, 2013, 07:08:46 AM
poynt99,
you mixed it up !

The upper red math trace above the zero line is the consumption from the grid  , so 78 Watts is consumed and 82 Watts is returned to the Grid, so the circuit seems to produce still 4 Watts of overunity power from the viewpoint of the grid and pumps these 4 Watts  into the grid.

Therewhile the bulbs still produce around 10 to 25 Watts of real active ohmic heating light power and the transformer heats up from hysteresis losses , so the real heating  iron losses !

But still the power company charges you for using around 80 Watts via the mechanical grid power meter measuring the total abolsute current
value and not the complex mathematical value !
They measure, as if the same values of current and voltage would be in phase...

Stefan,

I also agree with you, the upper part of the math is what is used and the lower part is what is returned.
The scope has the ability to set a probe for use as current or voltage. Multiply the current by 10 as CSR is 0.1 Ohm.

I don't agree with you on power factor!
A power factor of Zero cannot be charged and mostly by those old mechanical meters. I have one and the wheel stops turning even before I get to a 90 degrees phase shift.  Even smart meters cannot charge you for a power factor of zero. Anything above they can charge and the mechanical meters start turning when above a PF of 0.13 since they are set for an average PF of 0.87
Smart meters can measure PF form 1 to .01
A PF of 0.5 is the same charge as a PF of 1. A PF of 0.75 is more costly then a PF of 1, so this is where you want to make PF corrections.
A PF of 0.25 will be half the charge of PF of 0.5 and a PF of 0.00 is free of charge as it is considered wattless power and electrical engineers have been educated that you cannot get real power out of anything operating at a power factor of zero. Just ask Farmhand, he even posted that some pages back.

Here is what the expert Farmhand has posted on page 7 of this topic
It is best to try tune for a power factor of 1 not 0.0 a power factor of 0.0 means zero net power is supplied to the load and all reactive power is returned to the supply, none left for the load, so somewhere there is a mistake.

Cheers

From what I now know and have proven to myself and shared with you all is: the only mistake is to believe what they have been teaching in Universities around the world.

The very reason I built a generator turned by an electric motor is to test if a circuit operating on a PF of Zero will have an effect on the Generator prime mover (mini Grid equivalent).
My generator load test is the only one available on the internet which proves you can have a power factor of Zero, output over 20 Watts of Real Power and have Zero effect reflected back to the prime mover. Just that in itself is amazing since engineers like Farmhand an so on say it's impossible to do.

TO EVERYONE
Please note, I feel I have given much and all you need has been written, so I don't care if you don't believe this has value or not. I will stop wasting my time on forums and use it to develop the effect.

All the best in your research

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 12, 2013, 07:11:09 AM
Let's wait and see if Luc answers my question about inverting one of the scope channels before you jump to conclusions that I mixed it up.

Hi poynt,

no channel inverting was done

Luc
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gmeast on December 12, 2013, 07:33:46 AM
Hi Luc.

This is what I see:

Going by the scope shot above, the scope is telling us that the positive portion of the MATH trace is 78W, and the negative portion is 82W. In this case the difference is 4W, which would be the total average power being dissipated by the transformer primary, the bulbs, and the CSR resistor.

So to summarize, 82W is going into the circuit, and 78W is returning, yielding a net 4W (or thereby) dissipated in the circuit components.

Question: Did you invert either of the channel traces on the scope?


Hi Luc,


This is very interesting. Of course, here goes poynt99 (aka pointy-a_ _) with his irrelevant input. He always ONLY refers to scope shots because he's too narcissistic  to realize that there is OU present in the parts of the circuits that he refuses to examine, or can't examine because they haven't developed instruments (yet) that can measure OU, or he can't put a scope on it.  He's a staunch opponent of ALL over unity systems. 


So, poynt99, what you see is what you want to see ... and it is your wholly unqualified opinion ... that's all. Sorry Luc, but it's the poynt99's and TK's that hold back OU progress. They like to say that it is THEY that protect investors from getting scammed ... how noble of you two!
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: forest on December 12, 2013, 08:53:46 AM
Consider this : instead of energy transfer from primary to secondary of transformer  there is exact copy of energy created in secondary. I have advanced this theory some years ago after looking at Melnichenko video, but it require very precise mesurements to prove. Melnichenko was close obtaining almost 200% efficiency by powering one bulb on secondary and one on primary from the same source current. JackNoSkills thread is also about that. ;)
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 12, 2013, 12:55:53 PM
poynt99,
you mixed it up !

The upper red math trace above the zero line is the consumption from the grid  , so 78 Watts is consumed and 82 Watts is returned to the Grid, so the circuit seems to produce still 4 Watts of overunity power from the viewpoint of the grid and pumps these 4 Watts  into the grid.

Therewhile the bulbs still produce around 10 to 25 Watts of real active ohmic heating light power and the transformer heats up from hysteresis losses , so the real heating  iron losses !

But still the power company charges you for using around 80 Watts via the mechanical grid power meter measuring the total abolsute current
value and not the complex mathematical value !
They measure, as if the same values of current and voltage would be in phase...

Stefan,

I agree with you ON THE SCOPE, the upper part of the math is what is used and the lower part is what is returned to the Grid.
The scope has the ability to set a probe for use as current or voltage. Multiply the current by 10 as CSR is 0.1 Ohm.

I don't agree with you on power factor!
A power factor of Zero cannot be charged and mostly by those old mechanical meters. I have one and the wheel stops turning even before I get to a 90 degrees phase shift.  Even smart meters cannot charge you for a power factor of zero. Anything above they can charge and the mechanical meters start turning when above a PF of 0.13 since they are set for an average PF of 0.87
Smart meters can measure PF form 1 to .01
A PF of 0.5 is the same charge as a PF of 1. A PF of 0.75 is more costly then a PF of 1, so this is where you want to make PF corrections.
A PF of 0.25 will be half the charge of PF of 0.5 and a PF of 0.00 is free of charge as it is considered wattless power and electrical engineers have been educated that you cannot get real power out of anything operating at a power factor of zero. Just ask Farmhand, he even posted that some pages back.

Here is what the expert Farmhand has posted on page 7 of this topic
It is best to try tune for a power factor of 1 not 0.0 a power factor of 0.0 means zero net power is supplied to the load and all reactive power is returned to the supply, none left for the load, so somewhere there is a mistake.

Cheers

From what I now know and have proven to myself and shared with you all is: the only mistake is to believe what they have been teaching in Universities around the world.

The very reason I built a generator turned by an electric motor is to test if a circuit operating on a PF of Zero will have an effect on the Generator prime mover (mini Grid equivalent).
My generator load test is the only one available on the internet which proves you can have a power factor of Zero, output over 20 Watts of Real Power and have Zero effect reflected back to the prime mover. Just that in itself is amazing since engineers like Farmhand an so on say it's impossible to do.

TO EVERYONE
Please note, I feel I have given much and all you need has been written, so I don't care if you don't believe this has value or not. I will stop wasting my time on forums and use it to develop the effect.

All the best in your research

Luc

NEW  THIS TOPIC IS NOW LOCKED TO KEEP THE TOPIC CLEAN AND SIMPLE FOR REPLICATORS   NEW
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 12, 2013, 10:07:12 PM
Hi Luc,
1.  who did lock the thread ?
Was it you ?

2. Anyway, so please let us know, did the scope now show the real current on the shunt
or is its real value now 10 times higher ?
So what is the exact real absolute value of the current ? 320 mA or 3.2  Amps  in your last test ?

3. Maybe the power factor and not charging for reactive current is different in the US and Canada to Europe ?
I did not reaearch this yet , but I always thought and could remember that I was always told
that the meters over here also charge for reactive current...

As I just saw in this article:

http://www.nlcpr.com/Deceptions1.php (http://www.nlcpr.com/Deceptions1.php)

it seems to be not the case in the USA, but power companies
don´t like it, cause they have to finance the bigger transformers and bigger diameter lines (so more used expensive copper)
cause more current flow with lots of reactive power.

So maybe I just fell for the advertisement of the Power Factor Correction boxes ?
(Although I still think that they make much sense and the power companies surely love them)


4. Luc, Why do you think that you will be charged the most at Power Factor= 0.75 ?
Is this really the case ? Does it have to do with MDI (or Maximum Demand Indicator) Penalty ?

Or are these disc based mechanical power meters set to count the most and run the fastest at this phase angle ?

 Hmm, maybe it is different in Europe, so I have to research this and please don´t close the thread again
cause we also want to hear from others who are replicating your work.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on December 12, 2013, 10:14:44 PM
Yes Stefan, I locked the topic!... do you not read what I write? I wrote it in big letters also

Please keep this topic locked so not to clutter it with infinite discussions

If you want to keep discussions going please start another topic and place the link to it and re-lock the topic.

Regards
Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: hartiberlin on December 12, 2013, 10:35:28 PM
Okay, Luc,

so here is the discussion thread now:

http://www.overunity.com/14106/reactive-generator-power-usage-from-gotoluc-discussion-thread

Title: Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
Post by: gotoluc on January 18, 2014, 08:17:04 PM
To all who have not been following the 2nd forum topic which Stefan has posted the link to in the above post.

Here is the last update:

User id poynt99 has identified an error in my scope settings. I was using AC coupling in my scope probe settings when it should be set to DC coupling for correct power calculations. I'm not the only one that was doing this. Two other experimenters have said they were doing the same thing.
I've since re-tested everything with the scope on DC coupling and now see no real power gain or advantages in the circuit compared to when the scope was set to AC coupling. There is a big difference in results from AC to DC coupling as far as scope math is concerned.
It's also clear that a plug in watt meter cannot calculate a 90 degrees phase shift power correctly. So results using just that need to be questioned.
 
As for my generator tests, even though when my circuit was connected to the generator output and had no effect on the gen prime mover the energy source has been identified by user id TinMan. The power to my circuit was a transfer of power from the gens exciter field which coincided no effect back to the prime mover.
 
So two different things happening which made the results look good but now looks like there's no real power gain after all.
Maybe reactive power can be used to an advantage if you had a circuit that could use the return cap discharges (at 45 degree) and convert it to mechanical power (like I thought my generator was doing) or shore it in a battery. But none of this is happening if using single phase grid or gen. A 90 degrees phase shift for the single phase grid is like a short circuit and the wires just heat up.
 
That's where things are at this time and wishing you all the best in your experiments
 
Luc