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Author Topic: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share  (Read 108613 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2013, 05:46:19 AM »
Excellent Vince!... now you're thinking of what else can be done.

Keep up the ideas and experiments

Luc

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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2013, 07:02:27 PM »
Hi Luc,
what do you think about my analysis ?

WHat about this other Video that Thane posted in the Facebook discussion ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o

I will have a closer look at it this evening and post another analysis.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2013, 07:30:11 PM »
Reactive power is not paid for by residential customers. The losses involved in it are calculated in the price of power. Plug in watt meters can and most do calculate power factor and display real power as well as apparent power, one of mine does both the other only shows real power not the reactive portion, it only shows what is paid for and compared to another meter that displays real power in Watts and apparent power in volts and amps as well as power factor.

It is best to try tune for a power factor of 1 not 0.0 a power factor of 0.0 means zero net power is supplied to the load and all reactive power is returned to the supply, none left for the load, so somewhere there is a mistake.

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2013, 07:30:11 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #93 on: December 04, 2013, 08:06:32 PM »
Hi Luc,
what do you think about my analysis ?

WHat about this other Video that Thane posted in the Facebook discussion ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o

I will have a closer look at it this evening and post another analysis.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan,

I don't know what to think of your analysis!... so I'm not going to comment on it.

What I'm interested in is development and not what people think can be going on.

Build it and see for yourself then post what you think

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #94 on: December 04, 2013, 08:20:39 PM »
It is best to try tune for a power factor of 1 not 0.0 a power factor of 0.0 means zero net power is supplied to the load and all reactive power is returned to the supply, none left for the load, so somewhere there is a mistake.

Cheers

The only mistake here is failing to see the power factor is at 0.0 (see scope shot) and is still supplying 20 Watts to the load.

The generator test is also a way to confirm it. If a load is connected to a generator and does not reflect back to the prime mover then the power factor must be at 0.0

So why is there still 20 Watts going to the load?

If you don't believe me then do the test yourself.

I will no longer answer any other posts other then replicators who I feel need help.

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #94 on: December 04, 2013, 08:20:39 PM »
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Offline geenee

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #95 on: December 04, 2013, 09:27:11 PM »
Reactive power don't make alternator(generator) slow down or consume.but power company tell you if you make reactive power that make heat to the wire or more load to generator.why??power company liar for making more money.if all of us use Reactive power then power company lose more money(because low watts consumption).

Luc shown very clear,i don't understand why someone can't understand it??

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #96 on: December 04, 2013, 09:29:12 PM »
@Farmhand

Yes, that is what Luc tries to show using Power Factor of ZERO = 90 degrees phase shift to
generate REAL POWER of 20 Watts in his light bulbs as the second video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o
shows.

Well, here is my analysis of this second video:

1. First it would be nice, if Luc could provide his setting on his scope for the Math function,
so we can see, what excatly is multiplicated there and with what scale...

Also he made a small error when explaining the red Math function trace at :

min 2:32 where he said amps, but it must be Volts x Amps= Watts.


I have to go out now.

Will be back later...





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #96 on: December 04, 2013, 09:29:12 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #97 on: December 04, 2013, 10:23:08 PM »
Also he made a small error when explaining the red Math function trace at :

min 2:32 where he said amps, but it must be Volts x Amps= Watts.

Yes, it is Volts X Amps. But what is important here is a perfect 90 degrees phase shift which = Zero Watts in

Please note that this is not just a conventional transformer circuit.

It is a High Impedance Secondary (short circuited) with a tuned Series Cap (around 48uf for 120vac MOT or 24uf 220vac MOT) on one leg of the Low Impedance Primary with a Series Resistive Load (bulbs about 10 ohms lit) on the other leg of the primary.

Luc

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #98 on: December 04, 2013, 11:08:45 PM »
Hi Luc,
well, please provide data, what your scope is exactly doing at the Math trace and what kind
of factors you did put in there ...

Also this second video has the same analysis as your first video.

It could be just a Impedance matching in the Reactive power input where the
REAL power stays constant.

So you really need to have at the input of your drive motor a measurement unit that can display
both Reactive power input and Real Power input.

Maybe you can do this via your scope by using 2 Math functions ?

As your digital input Watt meter only shows Real Power input and not Reactive power
input you really need 2 power meters there or use your scope to show it via 2 Math functions.

Then you can see, if you draw these 20 Watts at the light bulbs, if your Grid input power into the
drive motor will also increase for 20 Watts in the Reactive power input or if the relationship
of Reactive to Real power input will change for 20 Watts...

So you really need to see both power inputs in realtime at the drive motor input to make a final decision...

Hope you can do this via your scope, that would be the easiest way and better try to use a 1 Ohm shunt resistor
otherwise you need to multiply all your current values by 10 as it was the case in the posted 2 videos.
(For easier reading purposes)

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #98 on: December 04, 2013, 11:08:45 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #99 on: December 04, 2013, 11:23:13 PM »
Stefan,

The electric motor turning the generator head is not working on reactive power. So why would you need to check its phase, power and so on. It is connected directly to the 120vac grid, so the plug in grid power meter is quite capable of displaying how many watts it uses since it takes "normal" power factor into consideration.

You are either misunderstanding the DUT in the video or I don't understand how my circuit (connected to gen head) can have an Impedance match to the motor (connected to grid).

Luc

Offline vince

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #100 on: December 04, 2013, 11:37:31 PM »
Hi Luc
I'm not qualified to weigh in on the discussion going on but I have been playing with your circuit and found something very interesting. I'm not sure if it is explainable in electrical terms but to me it was a head scratcher.
The effect only happens within a 3 to 4 microfarad difference in capacitance on the input to the MOT. That is somewhere near the sweet spot that gives highest output power at the resistor.
What I did was feed the output of the MOT to the output of another MOT . I then took the input (115 volt)of this second MOT and fed it to a small induction motor paralleled with a capacitor.
Here's the strange thing.  When you load the motor or even stall it the watt meter actually shows a large decrease in watts being consumed, even on a dead stall. This effect goes away and increases watts in if you use capacitance that is below or above  the tuned value.
Is this normal or something that reflects this reactive circuit?


Vince


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #100 on: December 04, 2013, 11:37:31 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #101 on: December 04, 2013, 11:55:16 PM »
Hi Luc
I'm not qualified to weigh in on the discussion going on but I have been playing with your circuit and found something very interesting. I'm not sure if it is explainable in electrical terms but to me it was a head scratcher.
The effect only happens within a 3 to 4 microfarad difference in capacitance on the input to the MOT. That is somewhere near the sweet spot that gives highest output power at the resistor.
What I did was feed the output of the MOT to the output of another MOT . I then took the input (115 volt)of this second MOT and fed it to a small induction motor paralleled with a capacitor.
Here's the strange thing.  When you load the motor or even stall it the watt meter actually shows a large decrease in watts being consumed, even on a dead stall. This effect goes away and increases watts in if you use capacitance that is below or above  the tuned value.
Is this normal or something that reflects this reactive circuit?


Vince

Hi Vince,

a motor is an Inductive load. I have written that once you connect Inductive loads (anything that has a coil in it) you will change the circuit.

When you connect a motor and hold the shaft the coil will remain at the same Impedance but let it go and now its Impedance will change and so will the circuit tuning. So that's why under most load it will use less watts.

It will take some time to understand Impedance changes.

There are ways to build a motor that will have next to no Impedance changes when the RPM increases. I have shared such a motor design some years back.

It will be adapted  to work on reactive power and will give out large toque as it only needs a small input power since most of the power comes form the permanent magnets. This Motor design has next to Zero change in Impedance, Zero cogging from magnets and all of magnet power is transferred to torque

Newest motor update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eTQ49RcFKM

All the best in your experiments

Luc

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #102 on: December 05, 2013, 12:29:42 AM »
Hi All,
maybe you want to try this selfmade wide range changeable electrolytic capacitor:

http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/els/varelec-el.htm

 I hope it can stand the used voltage...

Use 2 Aluminium foils or plates for the electrodes, so they can stand the AC .

Regards, Stefan.


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #103 on: December 05, 2013, 12:42:09 AM »
Stefan,

The electric motor turning the generator head is not working on reactive power. So why would you need to check its phase, power and so on. It is connected directly to the 120vac grid, so the plug in grid power meter is quite capable of displaying how many watts it uses since it takes "normal" power factor into consideration.

You are either misunderstanding the DUT in the video or I don't understand how my circuit (connected to gen head) can have an Impedance match to the motor (connected to grid).

Luc

Hi Luc, well,
as it is an AC motor surely it is inductive to the grid and has a power factor which is not 1.
So please also show exactly the change in power factor at this drive motor,
when you apply the load at the generator output.

Please also put a incandescent lamp in series with the drive motor, so we can see, if this bulb
changes its brightness, when you draw power from the generator.

You really have to exactly look at the input of the drive motor, what is going on...

Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #104 on: December 05, 2013, 12:54:53 AM »
Stefan,

The electric motor turning the generator head is not working on reactive power.


Well , I disagree, when I am interpreting the Scope shots right...
In your first video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guc8TADLteM
at the end  at min 25:43
the drive motor used 137 Watts of total input power
and only 49 Watts  of this were REAL input power and the rest = 88 Watts
was reactive input power.

Please check this again.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

 

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