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Author Topic: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share  (Read 108639 times)

Offline wings

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #75 on: November 28, 2013, 11:06:34 AM »
"A Novel Transformer with Compensating Coil"
 Xiaodong Liu 1*, Qichang Liang 2, Yu Liang 3
http://vixra.org/pdf/1204.0084v1.pdf

This is one by the same authors - it's a 'bucking coil' transformer - they say it'll power itself. It looks really simple, and totally illogical... The phrase 'retarded phase' seems to have been coined by the authors. I wonder if it's 'red herring' science for retarded people (like me)..?

The circuits in the other papers look simple to replicate, and one (1110.0004v1.pdf) looks a lot like what Luc is doing, but I'm concerned by the one I found above - it doesn't look right at all...

I'm also skeptical that simply moving a receiving antenna 1/4 wavelength from the source would result in OU (1104.0052v1.pdf). But again - it's an easy experiment...

JLN's LMD experiment is interesting, but if it's so obviously OU as claimed - why hasn't it been developed?

This whole reactive power discussion reminds me of rotoverters...

see hairpin circuit bulb in the water :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE5g6x6OOb0&feature=channel_page

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDWF50fUoYY


http://www.overunity.com/7978/karl-palsness-hairpin-circuit/msg198582/#msg198582





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline vince

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2013, 11:56:39 PM »
Now that Luc has left I was hoping someone else could help me.
I've have been trying out the reactive circuit that Luc suggested to start with, that is a MOT with capacitors in series to the primary and a resistor on the secondary.
My question is this.
Once I tune this to lowest input watts, hopefully 0, what does one do for the next step?
Say you want to place an induction motor or some other load in series with the input what does one do on the output.  I'm not sure if this has been pointed out or not but I don't recall seeing it.
Do you leave the resistor in on the secondary or do you substitute a high voltage capacitor? If so what value do you use as you just tuned the setup with a certain value resistor? Do you just short out the secondary?
Anybody have any insight on this?




Offline totoalas

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2013, 04:52:50 AM »
WITH O W INPUT  YOU CAN RUN THE INDUCTION MOTOR TO ROTATE THE GENERATOR AND SUPPLY THE INCOMING POWER LOOPED   :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2013, 04:52:50 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2013, 05:08:02 AM »
in the text :
The positive value of P1(t) represents energy flow
out of the source. The negative value denotes energy flow inward the source.

Yeah I understand what you are saying, and the intended meaning. But my understanding of the English language, the part in bold of the conclusion statement is an invalid statement.

Extracted means "taken out", so the energy is taken out of the source, ok so if energy is taken out of the source it cannot go out and in at the same time just because it's called negative.

It is unnecessarily obscure language, and I get suspicious when that happens. It may be negative in a momentary sense but when considered as net energy over a period of many cycles it must surely be positive.

If it was true then there would be a source of free energy, do it !

Quote
interesting:
Conclusion
In retarded resonance, the energy extracted from the source is determined by the retarded
phase on the route. When the distance between the source and the receiver is ¼ of
wavelength, the extracted energy from the source is negative.

Cheers


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #79 on: November 30, 2013, 10:31:56 AM »
I am refering to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJ0Qo10g3o

Hmm, when looking at Luc´s scope waveforms and his videos where he showed
the scope shots, it gets clear, that he just phase shifts the current with this MOT resonance circuit.
So he has voltage and current almost 90 degrees out of phase, so the power factor is almost zero,
but there is still flowing a big current !

This is the case what power companies don´t like,  because the power is flowing back and forth between you and the power station and it just heats the transmission wires....and you have to pay also for this reactive power
cause the house meters register them !

So this is why you pay less, if you can make all your loads in your house
have a power factor of 1= no phase shift between voltage and current and then the energy only flows from the power plant to your home , but not back again...
( So the power company can use smaller diameter lines for the transfer of the power)

So for this case I don´t see any energy gain here.
The question is, if Luc is also resonating the MOT transformer at his 60 Hz grid frequency via his LC
tuning ?

Also the case when he powers the motor-generator with the additional MOT and cap bank at the motor input
could mean, that he is just using only a special impedance matching this way by "pre-equalizing" the motor
with reactive current and then also only drawing reactive power from output generator via the output MOT...

At least this motor generator combination needs around 184 Watts to run in idle mode, which is a lot of wasted energy
there, so combined with all the phaseshifts via the MOTs he might just use some kind of impedance matching, so that it looks like the Lenz law is violated.

The question for the case where the MOT and Caps are connected directly to the grid  and the output load is  connected
to the secondary, it would be interesting to see how many Watts exactly are extracted via the 2 bulbs and
what exactly the phase shift angle is between current and voltage and what the exact voltage and current values are in this case...so we could see and calculate the power factor and see, if there is indeed coming some free power out there due to some kind of resonance effect or so..

Regards, Stefan.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 07:28:25 PM by hartiberlin »

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #79 on: November 30, 2013, 10:31:56 AM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #80 on: November 30, 2013, 02:03:52 PM »
    http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/
extracting : http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/A%20Solution%20for%20the%20Future.htm           
                  From  Mr. Lucero, Mr.Mallison,Mr.Halbach to Mr.Ettridge to you

and                                    Power charge saving circuit
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=66&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19880712&CC=US&NR=4757419A&KC=A
                                     and for lamp or motor (priority ? ??? ;)   :) )
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=19860225&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=4572992A&KC=A&ND=4

 
Sincerely
              OCWL


p.s.: electricity and energy fields ( this only from 1 inventor and his search/finding solution ideas ) :
  http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?compact=false&ST=advanced&IN=kazumi+masaki&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&PA=ken+hayashibara

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2013, 08:34:50 PM »
Now that Luc has left I was hoping someone else could help me.
I've have been trying out the reactive circuit that Luc suggested to start with, that is a MOT with capacitors in series to the primary and a resistor on the secondary.
My question is this.
Once I tune this to lowest input watts, hopefully 0, what does one do for the next step?
Say you want to place an induction motor or some other load in series with the input what does one do on the output.  I'm not sure if this has been pointed out or not but I don't recall seeing it.
Do you leave the resistor in on the secondary or do you substitute a high voltage capacitor? If so what value do you use as you just tuned the setup with a certain value resistor? Do you just short out the secondary?
Anybody have any insight on this?

Hi Vince,

post your results of the test and I may help you

Luc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2013, 08:34:50 PM »
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Offline vince

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2013, 01:57:22 AM »
Hi Luc
Glad to see you back.
I have been trying your circuit but I don't think I'm doing this right because my values are no where near yours. I've posted a picture below to show you my setup.  I have a lot of capacitors but no 1 k resistors so I will have to get some.
With a 4 and a 5 uF capacitor I get 1.1 watts and .2 volts on a 10 k o  resistor
With a 4 and a 5 uF capacitor I get .9 watts and 9.14 volts on 423 o resistor
I know my resistors are not correct but I thought I'd give it a try anyway.


I tried several induction motors in series with the circuit but the small capacitors would not run any motor
When I put anywhere from 130 to 450 u f capacitors in the circuit I was able to run the motors but there was no watt input reduction.
I was able to reduce watts in when I placed 2 110 volt MOT 's in series. It was only 10 watts but it did come down.
What I did find is that if you put a capacitor start motor into the circuit it would pulse and barley run.
Also when I ran the induction motors and loaded the shaft the input watts shot up just like the motor was attached directly to the mains
I know I'm doing this wrong, hopefully you can correct me.


Have you tried a capacitor start induction motor on your setup.  That was a disappointing result because it will need to run that type of motor if it is ever to be used in a looped motor /gen setup.


Vince

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2013, 06:53:12 AM »
Hi Luc
Glad to see you back.
I have been trying your circuit but I don't think I'm doing this right because my values are no where near yours. I've posted a picture below to show you my setup.  I have a lot of capacitors but no 1 k resistors so I will have to get some.
With a 4 and a 5 uF capacitor I get 1.1 watts and .2 volts on a 10 k o  resistor
With a 4 and a 5 uF capacitor I get .9 watts and 9.14 volts on 423 o resistor
I know my resistors are not correct but I thought I'd give it a try anyway.


I tried several induction motors in series with the circuit but the small capacitors would not run any motor
When I put anywhere from 130 to 450 u f capacitors in the circuit I was able to run the motors but there was no watt input reduction.
I was able to reduce watts in when I placed 2 110 volt MOT 's in series. It was only 10 watts but it did come down.
What I did find is that if you put a capacitor start motor into the circuit it would pulse and barley run.
Also when I ran the induction motors and loaded the shaft the input watts shot up just like the motor was attached directly to the mains
I know I'm doing this wrong, hopefully you can correct me.


Have you tried a capacitor start induction motor on your setup.  That was a disappointing result because it will need to run that type of motor if it is ever to be used in a looped motor /gen setup.


Vince

Hi Vince,

I've never left!... been checking the posts to see what's going on. You're the first one to post that you've tried my recommended test. So, like I said I'll help those who try.

A 120vac MOT will need double the series capacitance value. I was using a 220vac MOT on 120vac, so in my case mine is in the 20uf range.

You will need to be in the 40uf range with your series cap on the primary and your 423 Ohm Resistor on Secondary.
You should also pickup a 1k Ohm Resistor to further boost your watts out.

Once you have it setup in the 40uf range try adding or removing 1uf at a time and do your calculations.

Using 120vac MOT's and a plugin watts meter I found they may not display the correct watts used. They are not designed to handle returned power. So believe it or not the watts you see are probably returned power and not used power. You will see what I mean after many days of playing around with the values. When I plug my circuit in the generator and have too low of uf value on the primary the generator induction motor can drop 10 or more watts. So that's why I telling people to adjust uf value till you get around 1 watt since you won't know if in the minus range till you cross the balance point.

The best test to confirm you're not using real power is plugging it in a generator like I built and or using an Oscilloscope.

All the best in your experiments

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2013, 06:53:12 AM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2013, 08:32:04 PM »
Hi Vince, I've never left!...

Hi Luc,
  I've been doing a few tests (will do more tomorrow I hope) - using a universal motor from a vacuum cleaner. So far the results are horrific...  ???

In standard mode - the motor uses 15-17watts to do 80Hz. Using an MOT and capacitor switch box (made for rotoverting) - it's more like 300 watts. There is no 'tuning' as such - more capacitance = more speed = many more watts...

Can you please tell us more about the motor you're using?

Regards
Tim

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2013, 09:01:14 PM »
Hi Luc,
  I've been doing a few tests (will do more tomorrow I hope) - using a universal motor from a vacuum cleaner. So far the results are horrific...  ???

In standard mode - the motor uses 15-17watts to do 80Hz. Using an MOT and capacitor switch box (made for rotoverting) - it's more like 300 watts. There is no 'tuning' as such - more capacitance = more speed = many more watts...

Can you please tell us more about the motor you're using?

Regards
Tim

Hi Tim,

read what I have already written about attaching an Inductive load.

I will only help when you do the basic test. That's already difficult enough to master.

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2013, 09:01:14 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2013, 12:44:05 AM »
Dear Luc,
I had another closer look at your video and your scopeshots again.

Well, surely you have done a lot of work with it, but here are some
flaws that you might adress:

1. Your input Watt meter measures the power input INCLUDING calculating in the Power Factor
cos Phi.
Normal House Watt Meters unfortunately don´t do this , so you pay also the reactive current that you
pump back to the power station and that is just oscillating between your house and the power station.

That is , why there are some devices that shift the phase angle always to zero to reduce your power bill.
(but this is a different topic)

2. In the scope shots you have around 36 Volts to 48 Volts input and always around 1.6 Amps input current
(Absolute values without phase shift relation)
and in the last scopeshot ,which you posted , the input Voltage is 148 Volts, so it is much higher, what you also state
in the video at around min 26:53 , but as you have scaled your div/cm on your scope differently it looks the same...
so a bit confusing on the first view..

But as I said, House Wattmeters only register the absolute values of the current and voltage, so your housewattmeter
will see in this last test an input of your red math curve at around 137.7 Watts.
(Multiply the red Math Voltage RMS with the red Current RMS values)
So you have to pay also the reactive power that you oscillate between your house and the power station.
Your digital wattmeter just only shows 49 Watts, but you have to pay 137.7 Watts...
so you are just oscillating the difference of around 89 Watts back and forth between your power station and your
drive motor there !


Okay, until now I only looked at what you have to pay for the power billed by your power station.
But this is a different question what is really happening in the circuit and if it will be possible to use this oscillating 89 Watts of reactive power
which oscillates back and forth between the power station and your drive motor without much loss and if we can tap
this power and convert it without creating too many losses into real power, that can heat your ohmic resistor as you have shown.

Okay, you oscillate 89 Watts reactive power and can generate from it around 3 Watts REAL POWER on a ohmic load.
So if you can scale this up and just only maybe oscillate 100 Watts of reative power between the power station and your circuits
and generate from it more than 100 Watts, you will have convinced me.

Surely it looks great, that the input power will not change at all, when at around min 27:30  when you switch on and off the load
and the voltage and current waveforms stay very stable !
But remember you oscillating 89 Watts back and forth and only get 3 Watts out from it, so maybe this is still in the measurement error
range...and it could also be some kind of Impedance matching, so that when you draw this 3 Watts of REAL POWER at the ohmic resistance,
the oscillating reactive power
could maybe be  reduced to 86 Watts, but the REAL POWER at the ditigal input power meter still stays at 49 Watts !
So you just oscillate less reactive power back and forth between you and the power station, but the REAL Power input stays the same at 49 Watts...
So this would be some kind of "reactive oscillation power impedance matching"....
I hope you can understand , what I mean...

It took me at least now 2 hours to ponder about it and write this now...but it is now very clear to me...!

Anyway, well done Luc, looking forward to see a scaled up version to see, if it is just impedance matching or if we can
really convert this way just "oscillating reactive power" to real ohmic heating power.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline vince

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2013, 04:10:50 AM »
Hi Luc
I'm not sure how you're going to reply to Stephan's post but I did some more tuning as per your suggestions. I was hoping you could help me interpret them.
Is there a next step?

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #88 on: December 03, 2013, 05:42:10 AM »
Hi Luc
I'm not sure how you're going to reply to Stephan's post but I did some more tuning as per your suggestions. I was hoping you could help me interpret them.
Is there a next step?

Excellent experiment work and documentation Vince.

What we can see form you data is your plug-in watt meter is not capable of giving you a linear reading!... we can see it makes sudden jumps in watts with a small change in capacitance. I get the same thing when I use a 120vac Mot but when I use the 220vac Mot it's much more stable since the primary inductance is double of the 120vac version. That inductance change makes a big difference on the shape of the current sine wave. It's very clean and easier for the plug in watt meter to read.

As you can see something is happening. I would encourage you to now start at 40uf and add 1uf at a time and see what happens. This is your ideal range. If your watt meter starts bouncing around display 0, 4, 8, 2 and so on you may be at the ideal balance point. You should be able to get 15 to 18 watts on your 1k Ohm Load Resistor.
If you had a generator like I have and plug in your Mot circuit you would see it causes no load to the generator.

There are other things that can be done with the circuit. Keep experimenting and sleeping on it and new ideas will come to you to try and see what happens.

Try to find yourself an old generator on craigs list or kijiji that the gas engine is not working or very old. Connect the gen head directly to a shaft of a 3600 rpm electric motor.  Just make sure the gen head has 220vac output as voltage will be what you want.

Wish you all the best in your experiments

Luc



Offline vince

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Re: Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share
« Reply #89 on: December 03, 2013, 06:00:30 PM »
Thanks Luc

Just for your info I can use half the capacitance values and achieve similar power out calculations by using 2 115 volt MOTs together.
I just wired the primaries in series and the output in series with resistor across the series output.

Vince

 

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