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Author Topic: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?  (Read 39876 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2013, 11:43:09 AM »
@MH-and all
I am going to start from the begining,so as all can see what it is im trying to show with the magneformer. As much as i have looked,i cant find the original device,so i have made a new one from scratch. Im guessing that the original is in one of my junk boxes out on the farm,as there just wasnt enough room in my new work shop to bring everything to our new home.

The core halves im useing are from an old flyback transformer,from either a TV or cpu monitor.
I now will make the pulse circuit for it,and it will be driven by my home made(kit)SG,and P/in will be in way of an SLA.This is so as the scope ground can be placed anywhere on the device for measurements.

Pictured below is the transformer part of the device ,that i made today. Pic 1 shows the transformer in its seperate pieces,and pic 2 shows how it all fits together. This way we can test it with and without the PMs in place,which are strong N48 neo's.

Once up and running,the first video will be about checking our DMM's for accuracy,and show how to smooth out the pulses across the DMMs-so as they read accurate.
In pic 1,the core looks like it is broken and is bent inward toward the open end's. But that is just because it is lying on an angle,and it is actualy straight. The cores are ofcourse ferrite ! grade unknown!.

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2013, 11:43:09 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2013, 03:20:09 PM »
Some results of the first run.
The neo's had to be swaped out for ferrite magnets,as they were far to strong.
Measurements are as follows after some fine tuning,and the resistor across the secondary coil is 81.7 ohms. Tank cap is not yet in place.

Without magnets
P/in=12 volts@ 7.79mA=.0934watts
P/out(flyback)=12.43 @ 4.45mA=.0553watts
P/out(secondary/resistor)=400mV/81.7 ohms=.00196watts
P/out total=.0553+.00196-.05726watts.
Efficiency is 61.3%

With magnets
P/in=10.4mA @12volts=.1248watts
P/out(flyback)=12.44 @6.8mA=.08459watts
P/out(secondary/resistor)=920mv/81.7ohms=.01036watts
P/out total=.08459=.01036=.09495watts
Efficiency is 76.08%

Both meters are of the same type,and were set at the mA scale,and large smoothing caps used on input and output.
Meters were then swaped over,and test ran again. The results are an average of the two test.
The two DMMs used have a .02mA difference.
The smoothing caps on the input were 1x 10 000uf high current cap,and two 4200uf caps.
Cap used on the flyback output was 1x 10 000uf high current cap.
No ripple detected across the two DMMs.

The first scope shot shows the device running without the magnets in place.
The second scope shot shows operation with magnets in place.
Scope shots taken befor fine tuned.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2013, 10:27:38 PM »
Hey Gyula

If the pulsed primary input field is opposing the permanent magnet, the core wont be saturated till the field of the magnet is flipped/reversed and then pushed further into saturation, if the input can deliver that much opposition to the cores permanent field. ;D A ferrite mag can be demagnetized, or even reversed eventually, that is again if the input is enough. Brad isnt putting that much power in so saturation shouldnt be an issue and the magnets should last for quite some time.

Mags

Hi Mags,

Yes it is all okay what you wrote, I was mistaken in that I had believed literally the permanent magnet was really inserted into the coil while in fact the magnets were only attached to the cores but not inserted into the coil  :)

Gyula

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2013, 10:27:38 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2013, 10:41:07 PM »
...
Gyula:

I didn't know that a magnet would have such a low relative permeability.  You still might be able to take advantage of the polarization though as has already been stated.  Note the excitation from the primary coil is unidirectional.  This assumes the relative permeability is radically different depending on the direction of the external field.  It would be an interesting and easy test.  You just have to look at the slope of the current rise in the coil for same-direction and opposite-direction magnetic field generation by the coil wrapped around the magnetic core.  You cross your fingers and hope that you don't ruin the magnet.

I also wonder if the L-meter will be thrown off by the introduction of a magnet into the coil.  I assume they sample or sweep low-level AC frequency excitation for the coil under test and check the response to measure the inductance.  So if the magnet does indeed radically change in relative permeability depending on direction it may have a small heart attack (throw off the measurement algorithm).  It probably will read out as a high inductance - my guess.

Another point is that this is a transformer setup, not an inductance.  So assuming the core (any core) is coupling the energy properly, you _don't_ see inductance on the primary, you see the load, which is an LCR circuit.  So you see a wobbling resistance!  lol  Note since you are approximately at resonance, you are pretty much seeing the resistive component of the LCR circuit as the load of the primary.  So that means that Brad should see the voltage and current going into the primary winding as mostly in phase, assuming that the core/coupling is doing it's job properly to transfer the power.

MileHigh

Hi MileHigh,

Yes permanent magnets are almost fully saturated magnetically, many FE tinkerers are not aware of that and when they use magnets in a "closed" magnetic circuit where permanent magnets are used to "close" the magnetic path, they actually build an "air gap" into the circuit at places they insert the permanent magnet(s).

Well, L meters mainly use oscillators inside which excite the coil to be measured with saw-tooth like waveform so there are no abrubt amplitude change across the coil. Indeed you have to be careful when testing coils with magnets when using an L meter and move the magnet slowly in or out of the coil to avoid harmful induced amplitudes, to save the inside oscillator circuit. I did check air core coils with inserting different magnets into them and never had any malfunction in my L meter. The permanent magnet in itself when plugged into an air core coil does not change any of its original properties its permeability also stays the same. The L meter normally use a low power oscillator to drive the coils to be measured.

If you use a coil with ferromagnetic core and attach a permanent magnet to the core or just approach it closely with a magnet, then the permeability of the core can change a lot (it normally goes down) so the L meter shows a decreasing inductance value too. Taking sudden movements with the magnet causes the L meter to go out of range for some moments, then normally it returns to the new L value.

It is okay what you wrote in your last paragraph above, I would add that the load resistance  (earlier the 18 Ohm, now the 81.7 Ohm) establishes the loaded Q of the output tank circuit, and if this load does not change there is no 'wobbling resistance'. If there is no load resistance then indeed the LC tank has its own parallel resonant impedance and it is a high value (several kOhm or even higher) wrt the 18 or 82 Ohm loads, and it is also a constant value (if the switching frequency is stabil).

Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2013, 10:53:19 PM »

Some results of the first run.
The neo's had to be swapped out for ferrite magnets,as they were far to strong.
....

Hi Brad,

My comment would be that the magnets still reduce the permeability of the C core on which the electromagnet coil is wound, this explains the higher input power taken when the magnets are in place. 
If you have an L meter, then you can check the inductance values first with the magnets in place (the setup is unpowered of course and leave the cores and the magnets possibly in the fine-tuned positions) and then removing the magnets you could adjust the core distances to arrive at the same L values for the coils like with the magnets and then test the input output.
Of course this may sound as an obsolote test now, the goal is to get more output with a reducing input, by using the magnets.

One more thing: if you happen to find with the L meter that the reducement of coils inductance (due to the magnets) is not the cause for the increased input power, then the explanation for the latter is what Magluvin also mentioned: more input is needed to flush out the PM flux from the core.  It is also possible that both the decrease in inductance and the extra flux from the magnets are indeed the cause for the extra input.  It would be good you would find your original setup of course and could check it again.

Gyula

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2013, 10:53:19 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2013, 08:49:49 AM »
Magnetics and transformers and materials, it's a pretty big subject if you are hard core.  I am too tired to comment on previous postings right now, but let me mention something interesting.  I saw this thread on a science forum but didn't try to read it, it looked like way like too much work and my interest level was not high enough.

The subject was what happens in the magnetic core of a transformer under normal operation.  It's not so obvious.  Think of a good quality fairly large 1:1 transformer.  You put a nice pure 60 Hz sine wave into it and there is a resistive load.  We don't really need to worry about values.

Here is the thing:  The primary current creates magnetic flux in the core.  But the secondary also reacts in perfect synchronicity and its current also creates an equal and opposite magnetic flux in the core.  Since we know that flux in one direction can be cancelled by equal flux in the opposite direction, then what is going on in the core?  If there is no net flux in it, what's happening?  What are the magnetic domains doing?  Are they flipping or not flipping?

We know that each coil in the transformer is creating a "blast of flux."  But between the two blasts there is a kind of mutually assured destruction going on and there is no flux.  It's almost like electrons and holes in a diode smashing into each other and self-annihilating (in a figurative sense).

I honestly have never read up on this subject at all.  I just saw the subject line and it got me thinking.

MileHigh

Offline tinman

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2013, 03:48:35 PM »
Magnetics and transformers and materials, it's a pretty big subject if you are hard core.  I am too tired to comment on previous postings right now, but let me mention something interesting.  I saw this thread on a science forum but didn't try to read it, it looked like way like too much work and my interest level was not high enough.

The subject was what happens in the magnetic core of a transformer under normal operation.  It's not so obvious.  Think of a good quality fairly large 1:1 transformer.  You put a nice pure 60 Hz sine wave into it and there is a resistive load.  We don't really need to worry about values.

Here is the thing:  The primary current creates magnetic flux in the core.  But the secondary also reacts in perfect synchronicity and its current also creates an equal and opposite magnetic flux in the core.  Since we know that flux in one direction can be cancelled by equal flux in the opposite direction, then what is going on in the core?  If there is no net flux in it, what's happening?  What are the magnetic domains doing?  Are they flipping or not flipping?

We know that each coil in the transformer is creating a "blast of flux."  But between the two blasts there is a kind of mutually assured destruction going on and there is no flux.  It's almost like electrons and holes in a diode smashing into each other and self-annihilating (in a figurative sense).

I honestly have never read up on this subject at all.  I just saw the subject line and it got me thinking.

MileHigh

MH
The flux in the secondary wouldnt be equal or opposite. Not equal due to ohmic losses,nor opposite. It would be a weaker field,and of the same field-apposing yes-opposite no. This is where transformer loss comes from.If one end of the transformers primary builds a north field,then the secondary field would be a north field aswell at that end-this is an apposing field,as opposite would be south. There is no equal in the magnetic fields either,as there is heat produced.If it was a 1 to 1 transformer,and was equal,then we would get out what we put in. But as we know we dont get out from the secondary what we put into the primary,we know the magnetic field isnt equal in both winding's.The output is less,and if we add the heat energy created by ohmic resistance to the output,we then have an equal amount of energy to that of what we put in.

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2013, 03:48:35 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2013, 06:36:28 PM »
I think this paper is fairly close to the mark for the layman's needs.

Although it's not second nature to most of us it's not rocket surgery either, if we look in the right places the info is around.

I recommend that anyone interested in transformers and not already trained to read the entire paper from start to finish a few times and use it for reference.
Of course transformers that vary from the efficient power transformer he talks about will behave differently it's a good starting point especially if we want to design our own transformers to use.

Transformers - The Basics (Section 1)
http://sound.westhost.com/xfmr.htm

Quote
Preface
One thing that obviously confuses many people is the idea of flux density within the transformer core. While this is covered in more detail in Section 2, it is important that this section's information is remembered at every stage of your reading through this article. For any power transformer, the maximum flux density in the core is obtained when the transformer is idle. I will reiterate this, as it is very important ...

For any power transformer, the maximum flux density is obtained when the transformer is idle.

The idea is counter-intuitive, it even verges on not making sense. Be that as it may, it's a fact, and missing it will ruin your understanding of transformers. At idle, the transformer back-EMF almost exactly cancels out the applied voltage. The small current that flows maintains the flux density at the maximum allowed value, and represents iron loss (see Section 2). As current is drawn from the secondary, the flux falls slightly, and allows more primary current to flow to provide the output current.

It is not important that you understand the reasons for this right from the beginning, but it is important that you remember that for any power transformer, the maximum flux density is obtained when the transformer is idle. Please don't forget this .

Quote
3.   How a Transformer Works

At no load, an ideal transformer draws virtually no current from the mains, since it is simply a large inductance. The whole principle of operation is based on induced magnetic flux, which not only creates a voltage (and current) in the secondary, but the primary as well!  It is this characteristic that allows any inductor to function as expected, and the voltage generated in the primary is called a 'back EMF' (electromotive force). The magnitude of this voltage is such that it almost equals (and is effectively in the same phase as) the applied EMF.

Although a simple calculation can be made to determine the internally generated voltage, doing so is pointless since it can't be changed.
As described in Part 1 of this series, for a sinusoidal waveform, the current through an inductor lags the voltage by 90 degrees. Since the induced current is lagging by 90 degrees, the internally generated voltage is shifted back again by 90° so is in phase with the input voltage. For the sake of simplicity, imagine an inductor or transformer (no load) with an applied voltage of 230V. For the effective back EMF to resist the full applied AC voltage (as it must), the actual magnitude of the induced voltage (back EMF) is just under 230V. The output voltage of a transformer is always in phase with the applied voltage (within a few thousandths of a degree).

For example ... a transformer primary operating at 230V input draws 150mA from the mains at idle and has a DC resistance of 2 ohms. The back EMF must be sufficient to limit the current through the 2 ohm resistance to 150mA, so will be close enough to 229.7V (0.3V at 2 ohms is 150mA). In real transformers there are additional complications (iron loss in particular), but the principle isn't changed much.

If this is all to confusing, don't worry about it. Unless you intend to devote your career to transformer design, the information is actually of little use to you, since you are restrained by the 'real world' characteristics of the components you buy - the internals are of little consequence. Even if you do devote your life to the design of transformers, this info is still merely a curiosity for the most part, since there is little you can do about it.

Quote
4.   Interesting Things About Transformers
As discussed above, the impedance ratio is the square of the turns ratio, but this is only one of many interesting things about transformers ... (well, I happen to think they are interesting, anyway  ).

For example, one would think that increasing the number of turns would increase the flux density, since there are more turns contributing to the magnetic field. In fact, the opposite is true, and for the same input voltage, an increase in the number of turns will decrease the flux density and vice versa. This is counter-intuitive until you realise that an increase in the number of turns increases the inductance, and therefore reduces the current through each coil.

I have already mentioned that the power factor (and phase shift) varies according to load, and this (although mildly interesting) is not of any real consequence to most of us.

A very interesting phenomenon exists when we draw current from the secondary. Since the primary current increases to supply the load, we would expect that the magnetic flux in the core would also increase (more amps, same number of turns, more flux). In fact, the flux density decreases! In a perfect transformer with no copper loss, the flux would remain the same - the extra current supplies the secondary only. In a real transformer, as the current is increased, the losses increase proportionally, and there is slightly less flux at full power than at no load.

MIT Lecture - Inductance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpO6t00bPb8

A transformer designed to be efficient can be made to behave like a Thane Crimes transformer just by increasing the applied frequency.  :) And it will behave woefully. See link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxde9qga79c  Please bear in mind I am no expert and I get things wrong and say the wrong thing at times, but the video shows some stuff in my opinion. I made it quite some time ago. I know a little bit more now. It still makes me laugh, I think I am a funny guy, no ?

..

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2013, 10:04:43 AM »
About the issue of the relative permeability of a magnet, it may be possible to have a magnet that still retains a high relative permeability if it is only partially magnetized.

Quote
Yes permanent magnets are almost fully saturated magnetically, many FE tinkerers are not aware of that and when they use magnets in a "closed" magnetic circuit where permanent magnets are used to "close" the magnetic path, they actually build an "air gap" into the circuit at places they insert the permanent magnet(s).

Note the attached graphic showing how you can control how strong the nominal flux in the magnet is if you travel up and then down the BH curve and choose your path carefully.  You can back off on the externally applied field strength and then slide down to a flux density level that is about 50% strength.  The trick is to know what your maximum externally applied field strength is to then back off and settle around the 50% flux density level.  Where I am uncertain is about the choices and associated properties for the core material.  How well will the material retain its partial magnetization if you wrap a coil around it and pulse it?   But at least in theory there is a recipe for doing it.

When it comes to the various types of commercial magnets you play with, I would assume that when they "bang" them to magnetize them, the flux density in the magnet is nearly or is 100% strength - they are fully saturated.  So does that imply that the relative permeability is very low in both directions because the magnetic domains are 100% "occupied?"

With a lot of care I would assume that you could demagnetize a commercial magnet and then give it a flux density level of 50% by yourself.  You would have to carefully tip toe up and then down the BH curve.

If anyone wants to do some reading "BH curve" and "tape head demagnetiser" would be a good launching pad.

MileHigh

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2013, 10:04:43 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2013, 12:18:39 PM »
Quote
....
When it comes to the various types of commercial magnets you play with, I would assume that when they "bang" them to magnetize them, the flux density in the magnet is nearly or is 100% strength - they are fully saturated.  So does that imply that the relative permeability is very low in both directions because the magnetic domains are 100% "occupied?"

Yes it does imply. Ferromagnetic materials intended for permanent magnets are magnetically "hard" materials with very high coercivity value, this means that once magnetized to a certain strength they tend to stay at that magnetized level, you cannot control its magnetization as readily and easily as in case of a soft ferromagnetic material. For such hard materials, when the H field is reduced back to zero (or even to an opposite value), the B field in the material does not get reduced but it remains 'remanent' at a certain level.

Here is a link to show the BH curve for a strong and a not so strong permanent magnet,  I refer to Figure 3:  http://www.electronenergy.com/magnetic-design/magnetic-design.htm   

By the way the formula for a BH curve is B=u*H and u (u=permeability) has to be close to unity in case of a material with very wide hysteresis curve.

Quote
With a lot of care I would assume that you could demagnetize a commercial magnet and then give it a flux density level of 50% by yourself.  You would have to carefully tip toe up and then down the BH curve.

Yes that would be a hard and arduous task for sure. I would suggest a much easier solution using the so called electro-permanent magnet which includes a soft and a hard magnetic core combination, the soft core serves for a normal electromagnet and the hard core is in fact a normal permanent magnet. By changing the current in the electromagnet the resultant combination of the PM and that of the electromagnet gives a variable and strong magnetic field: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-permanent_magnet 
You surely remember the Hildenbrand or the Flynn setups etc: all such magnetic circuits add magnetic flux from permanent magnets to that of electromagnets, albeit not always in a linearly controllable way but by switching. See these products:
http://www.magnets2buy.com/acatalog/Electro-magnets.html

Gyula

Offline Newton II

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2013, 01:27:39 PM »
@MH-and all

I am going to start from the begining.....


I you wind the wire in a zig - zag manner as seen in your picture, you won't get good results.  The flux produced in individual turns may not add up properly.  Better if you remove a coil from old small generator or a 6 Watts / 12 watts eleminator (rectifier) which will have a small step down transformer in it.    You can see how neatly the individual turns sit one above the other in correct alignment.

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2013, 01:27:39 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2013, 02:02:42 PM »
I you wind the wire in a zig - zag manner as seen in your picture, you won't get good results.  The flux produced in individual turns may not add up properly.  Better if you remove a coil from old small generator or a 6 Watts / 12 watts eleminator (rectifier) which will have a small step down transformer in it.    You can see how neatly the individual turns sit one above the other in correct alignment.
Hi Newton
For the purpose of the demondstration,the coils dont have to be neat,as the same loss(if any) will be encountered with and without the magnets in place.
Some time ago,a member here that knows his stuff,said you would only get back 50% at best !on the kickback! to what you put in. As you can see from the result's(which are very accurate),we are getting back 76.08% from the device-even with the messy hand wound coils. But even so,i would have to disagree that neat windings make for a better performance-in regards to these type of systems.I have unwound many inductors,and wound the wire back on neat,and never have i seen a performance increase. Infact i believe messy wound coils are better in this type of system,due to the increased capacitance of the coil.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2013, 11:11:33 PM »
Hi Newton
For the purpose of the demondstration,the coils dont have to be neat,as the same loss(if any) will be encountered with and without the magnets in place.
Some time ago,a member here that knows his stuff,said you would only get back 50% at best !on the kickback! to what you put in. As you can see from the result's(which are very accurate),we are getting back 76.08% from the device-even with the messy hand wound coils. But even so,i would have to disagree that neat windings make for a better performance-in regards to these type of systems.I have unwound many inductors,and wound the wire back on neat,and never have i seen a performance increase. Infact i believe messy wound coils are better in this type of system,due to the increased capacitance of the coil.

Hi Tinman. Boost converters use the flyback or inductive discharge and can be over 90% efficient, so I don't get how a knowledgeable person could say we would get 50% back at most, I have a boost converter which can be over 90% efficient. In my opinion neat wound coils are better because they are more uniform and repeatable to closer values.

The trick is to reduce losses by keeping DC resistance to a minimum Thick wire and as least as is needed, also using good core material and diodes with proper clean switching.
Generally I use 1 mm magnet wire on iron powder cores for high frequency inductors, I parallel it for transformer primaries side by side to make flat conductors. For a primary coil or an RF inductor I never use less than 1 mm of wire, sometimes I use multiple strands of 0.5 twisted.

As the paper I linked shows, more turns does not mean more magnetic flux intensity so I don't buy into the more turns are always better for magnets argument, I would argue less losses are the key, as little loss as is possible. When building a transformer the primary coil needs to have a certain amount of turns for the core size for it to work so that it can idle with small input. Cancelling he self induction and so forth is good but it cannot nullify DC resistance losses.

Quote
A very interesting phenomenon exists when we draw current from the secondary. Since the primary current increases to supply the load, we would expect that the magnetic flux in the core would also increase (more amps, same number of turns, more flux). In fact, the flux density decreases!

I do agree if the one coil is used it can be wound however, it stays the same so it does not matter. If I was winding coils for a multi coil boost converter I would wind them as neat as is possible for me for practical purposes, so they can be made the same.

An electro-magnet could be excited by an all positive or all negative "Sine" type or sine looking wave couldn't it ?

My toroid with four transformers on it has thousands of tuns side by side neatly wound by hand, I put a layer of wax paper between each layer of turns.

Cheers

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2013, 10:48:48 PM »
Brad:

Looking at your scope shots in reply #61 it looks like your current waveform is upside down.  Not a big deal, sometimes inverting a signal on your scope compensates for the "backwards" voltage you might see because of the where the scope ground reference is relative to the probe.

From the top level view you can see that the impedance of the circuit drops and the power consumption goes up when you add the magnet.  So there is more power to go around.

Also, the coupling to your secondary may explain the relatively low efficiency of the circuit.  Ideally you would mate end-on to the laminations for the secondary for both the primary and the magnet.  Instead, you are connecting to the flat tops of the laminations and there are small insulating gaps between each layer.  So the magnetic circuit to the secondary could be relatively poorly coupled.

If you are curious enough, and perhaps for your own satisfaction, with the aid of your digital scope you could make a full timing diagram for the two cases, without the magnet and with the magnet.  If you are good with an image editing program it would be fairly easy to do.  You could take screen captures of all of the signals and then paste them into a large composite image, one on top of the other, everything lined up in time.  You do it for the voltages and the currents on the primary and the secondary, and for the flyback energy collection, with and without the magnet.

You are only looking at less than one-half of the picture right now.  If you were to consider doing it, do it for the resistor only as the load on the secondary.  Forget about the capacitor and keep it simple.

Once you have a complete set of timing diagrams for the two cases, then look at the waveforms and explain and understand what they mean.  It may sound tedious and like it's a lot of work and it is.

MileHigh

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Re: The Magneformer-lenzless transformer ?
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2013, 12:23:08 AM »
Just a few more comments about the setup.  Again let's start with a resistor as the secondary load to keep things simple.

Everything I discuss below can be considered to be duplicated so you test for the two cases, without the magnet and with the magnet.

For starters, you could put a 100 Hz, and a 1 KHz sine wave into the primary and scope the unloaded secondary to measure your turns ratio.

Note when you energize the primary with the square wave driving the transistor input this is what is considered to be a pulse circuit.  You pulse the primary on and then disconnect from it and then collect the remaining back-EMF energy in the primary coil.

So if you first try with no load on the secondary, the overall circuit load relative to the power supply looks like an inductance.  You should see a relatively slowly rising current waveform.  That's the rising part of the triangle wave.  The slope of that waveform tells you the inductance of the circuit.

Interestingly, when you add a load resistor to the secondary.  That also causes a linearly rising current waveform on the primary.  So that would  tend to imply that your actual observed slope is some combination of the slop due to the inductance plus the slope due to the load resistance.  That suggests that the lower the load resistance on the secondary, the steeper the slope of the current waveform on the primary.

Naturally your transformer will have a coefficient of coupling associated with it, but I don't know a quick and easy way to test for that.

If you look at the circuit and make tests and measurements with some kind of strategy like I state above, it can all be figured out and understood.  To understand what is really going on, you need a suite of test vectors, and not just one isolated measurement.  As suite of measurements allow you to see trends as variables change and stuff like that.

MileHigh

 

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