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Author Topic: Work from two magnets > 19 % output  (Read 11918 times)

Offline Floor

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Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« on: November 06, 2013, 06:27:41 PM »
OK
lets start the debate



                         Floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« on: November 06, 2013, 06:27:41 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 10:02:00 PM »
"with a spacing of 22.4282 mm between them."

That's where I stopped reading. Please demonstrate your ability to position magnets with a precision of 1/10000 mm.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 05:32:30 AM »
TK must have skipped his geritol today....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHERR-TUMICO-OD-1-2-Micrometer-1-10-000th-Inch-Accuracy-Free-Ship-0300-/221305099050

It's just a measurement reading.  No exact significance was placed on the figure by anyone but you, TK.

Push your glasses up off the end of your nose, take a deep breath and read on.....(moot inquiry alert).....You are still capable of being educated, are you not?


TS


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 05:32:30 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2013, 08:10:32 AM »
TK must have skipped his geritol today....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHERR-TUMICO-OD-1-2-Micrometer-1-10-000th-Inch-Accuracy-Free-Ship-0300-/221305099050

It's just a measurement reading.  No exact significance was placed on the figure by anyone but you, TK.

Push your glasses up off the end of your nose, take a deep breath and read on.....(moot inquiry alert).....You are still capable of being educated, are you not?


TS

Hey, TS... can't you tell the difference between an INCH and a MILLIMETER? I have micrometer calipers that measure to the tenthousandth of an INCH myself and I know how to use them. A ten-thousandth of a MILLIMETER is quite a bit smaller than that, since there are 25.4 millimeters to the inch.

"No exact significance was placed on the figure by anyone but you, TK."

Er... nope, someone put that exact figure into the PDF and, by implication, asked me to believe it. But I can't, without some evidence that the person citing the value can actually make measurements of magnet position to that precision and accuracy. Just a measurement thing... well, I can recall a  certain very expensive spacecraft that missed its target, Mars, completely because of a "measurement thing". Measurements and accuracy are important, and false precision is just that: false.

And I learn something every day. Don't you? Good grief, what if Overunity actually needs 22.4283 mm spacing instead of 22.4282 mm?

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 09:00:36 AM »
You've made my point!  Your anal retentiveness precludes learning opportunities because you are JADED.  So jaded in fact, that you really seem to believe that a measurement unit mistake of 1/10,000th of an inch vs. 1/10,000th of a millimeter on a wooden model could be an overunity deal breaker.  Of course you didn't even make it far enough to see the model, or investigate the concept as you abandoned the story with prejudice well beforehand.  Of course that's what you get for popping your head in to a topic merely to make sure it still rattles.

Tsk, tsk...

How unscientific.....or should I have said, how very establishment scientific of you...

The Hubble telescope supposedly went up with a costly unit measurement communication mistake.  With you pioneering the team, it wouldn't have gone up at all. 



 8)


TS


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 09:00:36 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 09:30:41 AM »
Well machineing shims to a tolerance of 1 micron is no great feat these day's. so if it came to the nitty gritty,it could be done-until you get a good temp change in the system-then all bets are off.

I dont think a magnetic field is going to change much over 1 microm though,so near enough would be good enough lol.
When it comes to perminant magnet's,nothing would supprise me.
I have just built a coil that outputs DC only,regardles of the input.
By useing PM's in the right configuration,we get only a DC output,without rectifiers.

Fancy that- PM's as rectifiers.
Now thats pretty useful.

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 05:30:47 PM »
So for the record.

TK

The distance measurements are calculated as 1/4 of the circumference of the pulleys.  The calculator I use puts out a lot higher precision than is in any way meaningful under the conditions of this experiment.    Use of the very long and/or repeating decimals,  I usually let these stay within the calculator.  If a calculation comes out to 4 or 5 decimal points I may use it intact.

Please find all of the errors in the procedures, math, graphs etc. you wish to.  That is why the experiment has been posted here.  But lets let a bean counter, work out the grammar and punctuation errors at a later time.

Thanks for the input.

                           floor


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 05:30:47 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Floor

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 11:25:47 PM »
              Fresh start

           Let the debates continue



                    cheers
                      floor

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 12:33:53 AM »
You've made my point!  Your anal retentiveness precludes learning opportunities because you are JADED.  So jaded in fact, that you really seem to believe that a measurement unit mistake of 1/10,000th of an inch vs. 1/10,000th of a millimeter on a wooden model could be an overunity deal breaker.  Of course you didn't even make it far enough to see the model, or investigate the concept as you abandoned the story with prejudice well beforehand.  Of course that's what you get for popping your head in to a topic merely to make sure it still rattles.

Tsk, tsk...

How unscientific.....or should I have said, how very establishment scientific of you...

The Hubble telescope supposedly went up with a costly unit measurement communication mistake.  With you pioneering the team, it wouldn't have gone up at all. 



 8)


TS

Wrong, my friend. Had there been someone "anal" like me checking the work, the mistake in focus would have been caught and corrected before launch, saving many millions of dollars and months of time.

Just so you  know, in two previous jobs I've had in the "free energy" field, my care and caution and skepticism has indeed saved nearly three million dollars that would have been spent on bogus "research" had I not caught errors and bitched about them.



The issue of what to do with all those extra digits that a calculator spits out is a known one with a clear and straight forward solution. It is simply this: Any answer that you get CANNOT be more precise than the LEAST precise figure that goes into the calculation. This is the issue of _significant digits_. When there is a physical measurement concerned, this is especially important.

When I see a result with more than the legitimate number of "sig digs" I know this right away: it is wrong.  It might be close to being correct... but as the Hubble experience shows, close is not good enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_figures

So you are asking me to accept some kind of advanced discussion when the person engaging in the discussion is ignoring a basic, widely accepted and taught, fundamental principle of arithmetic. What else is that person ignoring? Stuff that I can't catch because of my own ignorance, that will lead me astray and bite me later on, like the Hubble bit its designers?

Please, people, let us try to get the basic, undisputable stuff right, before we start dealing with the more speculative advanced concepts.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 12:33:53 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 12:38:04 AM »
So for the record.

TK

The distance measurements are calculated as 1/4 of the circumference of the pulleys.  The calculator I use puts out a lot higher precision than is in any way meaningful under the conditions of this experiment.    Use of the very long and/or repeating decimals,  I usually let these stay within the calculator.  If a calculation comes out to 4 or 5 decimal points I may use it intact.

Please find all of the errors in the procedures, math, graphs etc. you wish to.  That is why the experiment has been posted here.  But lets let a bean counter, work out the grammar and punctuation errors at a later time.

Thanks for the input.

                           floor

And thank you for your reasonable response. Please see my answer above; you can determine the correct number of decimal places to use very easily.

Some of us remember Mylow, showing videos where he is measuring magnet positions to the "hundredth of a millimeter" using a digital caliper, telling people they had to be that accurate ... then placing them on a disk and gluing them down by hand. LOL!

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 10:27:11 PM »
@ tinselkoala

I understand that it is a difficult, frustrating and time consuming affair, to deal with fraudulent / delusional people.  I have spent considerably more time studying topics / threads on the OU forum, than in posting upon it.  I appreciate the energy others have committed to keeping the forum a reasonably sane (hopefully not too sane) and honest place to explore and share ideas.

                 Thank you again for your time and input

                                   cheers
                                         floor

                   PS
                       I will do my best to respond to all inquiries, error discoveries, and suggestion as promptly as I am able.
                       also "thank you" to the others posting here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 10:27:11 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 03:00:42 PM »
@Floor,
 
I punched some numbers into my calculator and came up with a value of 95.12836% in favor of TK's explanations on Significant Digits.  So I have to admit that he is 100% correct.  Or 1 x 102% at least.  But all of this is just IMHO (in my humble oMinion).  But enough of my sycophantiphications...
 
So there is at least one thing "wrong" with your report.  However, I would challenge everyone to count the things that are "right" with your report.  I haven't even read it and see that it is an amazing example of what some would call a "magnetic wind tunnel."  That is to say it is an experimental test bed that was designed to examine a physical behavior with the hopes of finding some characteristic that can be exploited to the advantage of problem solving.  Well done!  I thank you and give a very big tip of my hat to you sir!  I remember when you first posted only the pictures of your test device and plans for the experiments you intended to perform with it.  And now you have returned as promised to present the protocol and results of your tests, open source no less.  For our critical review.  Again, well done!
 
Your efforts deserve our admiration to say the least.  I believe they also deserve the critical review that you invite!
 
Again, all this is just IMHO.
 
M.

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 03:41:12 PM »
We must be mindful of the observation of those two learned physists,
Reeves & Mortimer, that 82.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Offline gmeast

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2013, 04:13:56 PM »

Hello Floor,

This is an intriguing topic. Presenting it in open forum (especially here) deserves great praise and is courageous. And thank you TechStuf for facing down TK ... though recognizing NPD to be a tough disorder to control.


Keep going Floor. We're with you!


gme 

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from two magnets > 19 % output
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2013, 08:52:54 PM »
Request

 

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