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Author Topic: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)  (Read 7741 times)

Offline MenofFather

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Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« on: November 03, 2013, 04:40:06 PM »
devaic2.jpg is original his schematic.
devaic2redag.jpg edited by me, corected schematic mistakes.
devaic2redag2.jpg - edited by me, maybe that work.
Diodes only shotkeys (that write to me Pantiuchov). Only first diode can be not shotky, going from 12 volt plus, I think.
If need my advantages, opions, then write and I say that need capasitor and so on.



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Offline MenofFather

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 05:07:14 PM »
And here his divice other variant.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2013, 05:40:41 AM »
There's a resistor value, some diodes and capacitors in that last circuit that are not stated. Is that the "out?"

I could use one of several function generators to make the suggested short duty cycle at 20-50 kHz.

I'm really curious... what will happen if (when) people build it and it doesn't "self-run"? What exactly is the definition of "self-running" here? That big 4700 uF capacitor can "self run" an LED or two for a long time. Before I start working, I'd like to know what the "pass" and "fail" criteria are.

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2013, 05:40:41 AM »
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Offline MenofFather

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 09:24:22 AM »
There's a resistor value, some diodes and capacitors in that last circuit that are not stated. Is that the "out?"

I could use one of several function generators to make the suggested short duty cycle at 20-50 kHz.

I'm really curious... what will happen if (when) people build it and it doesn't "self-run"? What exactly is the definition of "self-running" here? That big 4700 uF capacitor can "self run" an LED or two for a long time. Before I start working, I'd like to know what the "pass" and "fail" criteria are.
I not wery understand you, can you ask simple?
In second post circuit LC circuit frenquency must be exatly same with generator frenquency, exactly-exatly. If LC frenquency 40 kiloherc, then and transistor must open in 40 kiloherc frenquency.
In first post circuit. Input frenquency is 100 kiloherc and LC frenquency 470 kiloherc, but may be and more frenquences that good. Only in first post in last circuit maybe frenquency of LC must be same like generator frenquency.
In first post circuits criteria that it self running is then miliampermeter show zero, then can disconect battery.
Now about that first circuit you speaking?
In both circuits I recomendate use all diodes shotkeys 60 about volts.
" I'm really curious... what will happen if (when) people build it and it doesn't "self-run"?"
Form people can  not work that, but can work, they have chance to make selrunner. If they not make that, then they lose that chance.
In first post circuits in left transformer is conected load (not big), but first, I think try without load make selfrunning.
" What exactly is the definition of "self-running" here?"
It run long time selfrun, maybe 100 year, but How say pantiuchov that frenquency must be wery exatly, so from diferent temperature frenquency generator or LC circuit can stop and LC this divice can stop selfrunning.
" Before I start working, I'd like to know what the "pass" and "fail" criteria are."
Pass is used curent is smaller, smaller, smaller, then you finding right frenquency. Fail criteria is long conected wires, not good conections, not falowing right schematic, big curent used by circuit.
That is small divices, output full power about 0.3 W maybe.

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Offline MenofFather

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 09:38:00 AM »
My suggestions.

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 09:38:00 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 02:46:23 PM »
I not wery understand you, can you ask simple?
I speak only of the circuit #3. Please see diagram below. NS means "not specified".
Quote
In second post circuit LC circuit frenquency must be exatly same with generator frenquency, exactly-exatly. If LC frenquency 40 kiloherc, then and transistor must open in 40 kiloherc frenquency.
In first post circuit. Input frenquency is 100 kiloherc and LC frenquency 470 kiloherc, but may be and more frenquences that good. Only in first post in last circuit maybe frenquency of LC must be same like generator frenquency.
In first post circuits criteria that it self running is then miliampermeter show zero, then can disconect battery.
Now about that first circuit you speaking?
In both circuits I recomendate use all diodes shotkeys 60 about volts.
" I'm really curious... what will happen if (when) people build it and it doesn't "self-run"?"
Form people can  not work that, but can work, they have chance to make selrunner. If they not make that, then they lose that chance.
If I build it exactly as diagrammed, and it does not "self run", what then? Where is the evidence that the circuit does "self-run"? None of the other diagrams you (or anyone else) has posted have been made to "self run" by anyone.
Quote
In first post circuits in left transformer is conected load (not big), but first, I think try without load make selfrunning.
I speak only of the circuit #3. Please see diagram below. NS means "not specified".
Quote
" What exactly is the definition of "self-running" here?"
It run long time selfrun, maybe 100 year, but How say pantiuchov that frenquency must be wery exatly, so from diferent temperature frenquency generator or LC circuit can stop and LC this divice can stop selfrunning.

So the claim appears to be this: if I control frequency very exactly, and don't allow temperature of frequency generator or LC circuit to vary, it will run "maybe 100 year". If frequency or temperature is allowed to vary, then the device can stop selfrunning. Is that what you are saying?

What if it doesn't self-run? Will you then say that I didn't control temperature or frequency well enough? I call this "hand-waving" and "special pleading". (see WIKI for definition of "special pleading").

Quote
" Before I start working, I'd like to know what the "pass" and "fail" criteria are."
Pass is used curent is smaller, smaller, smaller, then you finding right frenquency. Fail criteria is long conected wires, not good conections, not falowing right schematic, big curent used by circuit.
That is small divices, output full power about 0.3 W maybe.

What I mean by "pass" is this: what is meant by "self-running"? Are you claiming that this circuit can keep an LED lit for 100 years, after the battery is disconnected?
What I mean by "fail" is this: how can you tell if it works or not? "Fail" means it doesn't "self-run", that the output LED goes out when, or shortly after, I disconnect the battery. (The 4700 uF cap could run the LED for a short time through the JT-like circuit in the output stage.)

I've built many circuits that have been claimed to be "overunity" or self-runners. I don't use clipleads, I use soldered connections and good circuit construction, even making my own printed circuit boards for some of them. I use the right schematics _when they are presented with complete details specified_. But I usually want to see the claimant's "self-runner" running itself, before I get started.

I have stable oscillators that use crystal ovens to maintain temperature and thus frequency stability within a few parts per million. I can use PLL circuitry to maintain frequency to within 1 Hz in the 50 kHz band. I have a frequency counter that is accurate to 9 significant digits with NIST-traceable calibration. I have a large selection of transistors. I have 3 analog and 1 digital oscilloscopes.  I have the skills and abilities required to make and test circuits like this one.

But before I start, I want to have a clearly specified, potentially falsifiable hypothesis to test. No hand-waving or special pleading allowed! 

Is there a demonstration of this circuit, self running, available anywhere?

Offline FatBird

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 03:34:52 PM »
Real SIMPLE & CLEAR schematic.  I think I will build 2 or 3 of them.  LOL


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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 03:34:52 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 04:00:12 PM »
The Zener diode is upside down. Why use a 450 Volt electrolytic capacitor
when the diode drop is 0,6 Volt and the voltage over the capacitor will be
12, 6 Volt?

Offline MenofFather

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 09:41:51 PM »

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 09:41:51 PM »
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Offline MenofFather

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 10:03:31 PM »
"If I build it exactly as diagrammed, and it does not "self run", what then? Where is the evidence that the circuit does "self-run"? None of the other diagrams you (or anyone else) has posted have been made to "self run" by anyone. "
If for you not run self, then you get experience and good [/size]experience not lose chance to make selfrunnig divice.[/size]
"[size=78%]So the claim appears to be this: if I control frequency very exactly, and don't allow temperature of frequency [/size][size=78%]generator[/size][size=78%] or LC [/size][size=78%]circuit[/size][size=78%] to vary, it will run "maybe 100 year". If frequency or temperature is allowed to vary, then the device can stop selfrunning. Is that what you are saying?"[/size]
[size=78%]Yes. First need make self running, then can modernizate, made more controlable and more power, I think.[/size]
"[size=78%]What if it doesn't self-run? Will you then say that I didn't control temperature or frequency well enough?[/size][size=78%] "[/size]
[size=78%]I ansver, you get [/size]experience not lose chance to make selfrunnig divice. Or can trying made to selfrun, changing generator, changing wire diameter, changing capastor, changing duty cycle. Pantiuchov say, that very dificult find frenquency who must be exatly LC frenquency, only 5 herc can be diference. So you first must meashure LC frenquency, when can more easily find exat frenquency, who like LC circuit frenquency.[/size]
"[size=78%]What I mean by "pass" is this: what is meant by "self-running"? Are you claiming that this [/size][size=78%]circuit[/size][size=78%] can keep an LED lit for 100 years, after the battery is disconnected?"[/size]
[size=78%]Yes, and more can work. All depends on details and if not braks resonance due diferent temperatures like maybe 0 and 20 degree C.[/size]
"[size=78%] [/size][size=78%]how can you tell if it works or not?"[/size]
[size=78%]I not tell that for you it works or no. It can work, can not work for you, not lose chance making free energy divice, Pantiuchov make, that it working.[/size]
[size=78%]"... [/size][size=78%]I disconnect the battery. (The 4700 uF cap could run the LED for a short time through the JT-like [/size][size=78%]circuit[/size][size=78%] in the output stage.)"[/size]
[size=78%]There no from cap energy. Pantiuchov run it on about 4-6 hours without loosing brightnes of LED.[/size]
"[size=78%]But I usually [/size][size=78%][color=rgb(27, 142, 222) !important]want to see[/size][/color][size=78%] the claimant's "self-runner" running itself, before I get started"[/size]
[size=78%]Here only video of his selfrunner. [/size]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IO02JYSZXE
"Is there a demonstration of this circuit, self running, available anywhere?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxCCGNfD2cg Only this two videos.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2013, 01:50:15 AM »
Thank you. That's ten minutes I'll never get back.

Why is it that people who make these amazing devices cannot ever seem to make decent videos of them?

And on the other hand, people who make good video demonstrations, cannot ever seem to make self-running devices?

"Pantiuchov run it on about 4-6 hours without loosing brightnes of LED."

Ah... not quite 100 years, then.

And yet, in those videos, especially the first one, the LED light is poor and flickering, nowhere near full or even half brightness, and goes out several times. Also, when he first picks it up, there is a wire or wires dangling off to the left, and during the video this wire is "accidentally" kept out of the picture frame the whole time.

The problem with videos and circuits like this is that nobody ever seems to be able to get the circuits to work "legitimately" except the maker of the videos, and there are all kinds of ways that the videos can be faked. The videos are not convincing, in other words.

Thank you for posting them, anyway. Next question is this: Has anyone tried to duplicate this circuit? If so, what were their results?




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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2013, 01:50:15 AM »
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Offline MenofFather

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2013, 11:01:04 AM »
And yet, in those videos, especially the first one, the LED light is poor and flickering
It flickering, because he say ware some times not good contact have to lamp.
Has anyone tried to duplicate this circuit? If so, what were their results?[/size]
I tryed, but I use not shotkyes, not 20-50 kiloherc, but 500 herc (because use osciliograf computer  mikrofone socket... who can show only to 10 kiloherc about normal, I want see clear sine wave so use that small frenquency) and little other it modification and not get selfrunning or that curent drops to zero mialmeres, only with small duty cycle can get 12 about miliameprs not including generator NE555 curent.[/size]

Offline MenofFather

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Re: Pantiuchov selfrunning divice (shematic)
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2013, 05:45:59 PM »
Try this schematic. On one frenquency, about 50-200 kiloherc, I think, curent drobs, but not drops to zero. With other rezonant capasitor, not 0.033 uF in that place curent not drops (but maybe I not corect check).
I chek some my diodes and seems some not shotkeys.

 

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