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Author Topic: Toroidal Coils  (Read 36462 times)

Dave45

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2013, 05:21:55 PM »
I like your coil designs Iv been playing with spoked coils or rodin type coils as well.
I wonder if we ran the current through the spoked coils first then into the driver circuit would the spoke coils oscillate on the backside of the driver.

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2013, 05:21:55 PM »

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2013, 03:12:09 AM »

I have 2 'inner' coils in this one. 
The red rope winding is 'the new winding'
The RedGreen is an inner of the new winding, it's a inner-core coil.
The white/blue/red coil in the center is just inner coil.


New winding, is 31 feet (plus a little for padding), 24 filaments of 28GA wire.
I connected 2 sets 12 filaments in series.
On the 6" diameter windings, one series filament measures  inductance of 8.(1?)mH and 30.(2?)mH together.


The inner-core coil is 70uH.


When open the new winding is stealing almost all of the signal from the inner red/green core! HELP!


The complexity of the coils is starting to require fore-knowledge of design.


Inner-core coil, driving; new winding picks up +/- 700V resonance at about 4Khz.


new winding driving had issues; had to increase the power supply inductance; used a ignition coil secondary for the inductance, and smoothed out the drive.  .. I dunno I oscillated, not at a super high voltage I guess...


so I reverted the power inductance since that was much too much for the other coils to be in the mazilli driver.


Maybe I should just jump to now.


I put the configuration back; I ended up having to use a ferrite core, because the resonant frequency difference is so very large.... when I drive the inner coil (white winding only, 24 turns total), I induce a high voltage in the new winding.  But it doesn't behave the same as before... I can't get a usable differential from it... that is I can't ground the clockwise side and the counter clockwise of the other and get a +/- delta on it... the ends are in-phase.   I still pickup some voltage on the inner-core coil, but not enuogh to drive the LED load.  Even leaving the new winding totally open, I cannot get enough drive on the inner-core coil;  what I do get is strong ozone from the ends of the open winding; so I'm getting a huge power loss there apparently.


So; the new winding has destroyed the ability to use the prior configuration.


There is quite a current of high voltage also, got some pretty good arcs through the tips of my fingers accidentally brushing a ground.


So... this doesn't really answer my questions


1) is it better to drive with an inner-core coil or an inner coil; really either is sufficient (?)


but, then I can't also use the inner coil to drive the new winding and the inner-core coil... So I think this is where the intersection should be I guess.


----------------------------------------
To go back to akula's device....
A, a driven coil at X frequency, inside a pickup coil... Since the inductance of the secondary becomes the significant resonant point with the mazilli, it's the frequency of the secondary, which is inside the load coil.
B, a driven coil at 3X frequency, at a higher voltage potential (tesla tower), is outside of the load coil.  These two intersect on the pickup coil.


-------------------
This would mean... a inner coil (maybe an outer coil; not outer-core; above/below?)  of 12 turns, which excites an outer-core winding of high inductance


around the inner coil put another coil that has the voltage pickup on the outside, and 1 or 2 inner-core coils...


But then frequency becomes the problem... seems like coils have a frequency with or without capacitance, that adding capacitance just reduces.






Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2013, 03:17:13 AM »

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2013, 03:17:13 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2013, 03:23:56 AM »
Two seperate coils are reversable without opening them.
Originally the thin rope winding was on the outside, but tinkering I ended up with it on the inside.. then reversed it back out, and spread out the inner... and the ends were soldered together... actually becuase of the knotting of the coil, it's impossible to slip one through the other even if the ends were open.


I'm pretty sure if 3 coils were all interwound, they would all be interchangeable in position.




Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2013, 02:12:36 AM »
Hmm... I guess I never included schematics here...


I have falstad sim...

falstad sim

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2013, 02:12:36 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2013, 06:28:49 PM »
Playing with vortex bottles... two 2 liter bottles with their caps joined.


1) the orifice of the interface should be smooth and curving
2) (probably) depending on the viscosity and specific gravity (density) of the substances the size of the orifice needs to be large enough to counteract the weight against the surface tension... (oh I guess it's just surface tension?)  Other than it also needs to flow one into the other.


It's an interchange of two different mediums.  Probably with a similar rotational structure...


With a small orifice.  You must impart a circular motion to the water.  This causes a higher pressure on the outside and a lower pressure on the inside, allowing the low density fluid to go up ... If the pressure exchange can become constant, there will be a surface tension wall on the water around the inner conduit of air.  As long as the circular motion in the top bottle can be maintained, the exchange of water on top and air on bottom will continue.  At a point, the votex collapses internally, and bubbles (enclosed pockets of air with a water suface on all side) begin to form and get pushed up the tube (pulled? by the vacuum no the top?) So it starts frothing.


Back to electronics...

The spinning motion of the water reminds me of a magnetic field, evacuating a space to allow electrostatic transfer the other direction.


1) To have a motion, the vortex must open first?
2) Because of a motion a vortex forms.


1) inertia says a particle in motion remains in motion.. so its vortex must also remain until stopped.  its vortex will interact with other vortexes that also exist, unless the mass of induction is equal. 


The inner vortex must open.  It can be non continuous... that is in a bubble/ pinches off from others... so the smallest possible vortex form is...?  Cavitation, low pressure toroidal rings that self propel?  (nano manufacturing, Mark LeClaire ? close)


the higher the inducted field, the less resistance to current flow; higher current flow causes higher heat...


Still doesn't lend to a good idea of how induction forms....


Other than the first induction is in the same direction in near windings...


Let's suppose that magnetic fields flow from the positive, and static fields from the negative....


THe closing induction... where flow is reducing, causes an inversed flow in the other?  Does it matter?  Can the secondary be conditioned so it will result in an induction the other way; as long as it is allowed to flow?  Other than attraction/repulsion of near windings...














Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2020, 01:14:19 AM »

So... along the way of this thread, I went back and read some comments... 'what am I tryig to do? poking and proding?'  well.. LOOK... this coil is like your grandfathers solenoid or pancake coils.... unless you consider a single loop a coil.

So this is what I'm trying to do now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBjBuP0oPbc&list=PLYup1NqKR5BOCojQjg21gIOEiOUxDlM5A&index=1


I recorded this video to wind toroflux  toys using like plastic yard trimmer line... something you can fiddle with while there's nothing else to do.
It makes for a very interesting toy that you can put over things and it form fits...
it's like a chinese finger cuff - only totaly the opposite because it never binds.  Hooray for rotation and curvature.


I put that at the top of the playlist of this path I went on about these coils....


I'm really sad I couldn't just get anyone else to jump on the train with me... these are incredibly simple coils that are entirely functional in their simplest forms. 


It's a dozen turns a few meters of wire... you can wind a several in 15 minutes - since I did that, while talking about it a lot... that I could have done a lot more.


What I was doing?


Taking the principles of the abha/rodin coils and finding common factors and reducing the equations to simplest terms.


I did do it... the end was actually quite pleasant


--- What am I doing? WHat are we all doing here?  Might I refer you to the website address?


What can I do in redoing what EVERYONE else did...


what can they get by doing what one else did?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2020, 01:14:19 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2020, 01:17:19 AM »
Please fill up this page to overflow the overly large images.


Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2020, 01:30:31 AM »
Though what really brings all this back is this thing I starting playing with


https://d3x0r.github.io/MarchingTetrahedra/


which became


https://d3x0r.github.io/IsoSurface-MultiTexture/


Which are both ways of determining what 'things' look like...


After I had just a cloud of points that defined things, I sort of wanted to make them interact... but they're at their core just points, so I should be able to easily use those instead of the faces and geometry get are produced by those points...


Like the forms that get generated are merely the shadows on the wall....


So I started implementing quaternions


https://d3x0r.github.io/STFRPhysics/3d/index.html


But was disatsified with their limitations, and took the full dive into angle-angle-angle ( [size=78%]https://github.com/d3x0r/STFRPhysics/blob/master/Curvature.md[/size] )
really arc-arc-arc, and extended the imaginary plane to it's actual source.
Turns out it works really nicely; but I ran into some shapes that fell out when dealing with quaternions in their natural frame that were inobvious...Show Basis Map: [/size]


option shows the grid x/y/z for the curvatures around the x/y and z axels... and there's a scaling factor that takes the linear rotations and results with the proper distance in rectangular space for that coordinate...


Working in this sort of skewed space, the translations look linear/circular/rectangular ... and actually mostly linear in the linear space ... especially at very high curvatures (or delta angles... like this system can account for a thing that spin 15.3 times per tick... )




Most of the math systems out there seem to be lacking this conversion/scalar... but then again, when it IS applied, then the natural geometry that falls out would represent a magnet (2 magnets) with field that want to align their relative curvature to each other... minimizing the difference...


and the angles needed at various positions vary...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2020, 01:30:31 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2020, 01:57:54 AM »
And anyone PLEASE explain to me


https://youtu.be/04-kWptAiV8?t=438


This is AIR COREs...
I know... I have a bunch of stuff scattered all around, it REALLY isn't that much, which is why I'm confused by the confusino of the mess... can you not just follow 2 wires?


How does the pulse NEVER go negative?  Where does it go?  it's really just an oscillation above 0 DC....


look




    LoadA  - toroid coil - load B
              (air gap)
                 toroid coil
                  |
               oscillator


the bi-filar coils are connected in series, with that middle tap being ground, and you get positive and negative potential on the other side. ...
after you get the system started you can remove the ground, but initially you need some free source of electrons to have some motion in the system.


Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2020, 06:22:46 AM »
And anyone PLEASE explain to me
https://youtu.be/04-kWptAiV8?t=438
This is AIR COREs...
I know... I have a bunch of stuff scattered all around, it REALLY isn't that much, which is why I'm confused by the confusino of the mess... can you not just follow 2 wires?
How does the pulse NEVER go negative?  Where does it go?  it's really just an oscillation above 0 DC....
look
    LoadA  - toroid coil - load B
              (air gap)
                 toroid coil
                  |
               oscillator

the bi-filar coils are connected in series, with that middle tap being ground, and you get positive and negative potential on the other side. ...
after you get the system started you can remove the ground, but initially you need some free source of electrons to have some motion in the system.
Are you using an AV plug? I believe that will keep things unidirectional.
Didn't watch the whole thing, but a schematic would be helpful.
Bob

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2020, 06:22:46 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2020, 10:13:51 AM »
Yes, there is an AV plug on the one side... the other side was a capacitor which the other side is to ground, so there's no direct conduction path to ground...
the AV plug is across a sizable cap... it sort of determines the amount of power availalble

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2020, 10:19:38 AM »
Sorry I'm confusing setups I did try a variety of setups..




cap                            - avplug - coil - LED load - ground
(in parallel with cap) incandescnet bulb




nope other setup was basically the same thing, but A and B on the sides of the coil are swapped...  (there is a grounding point in the middle, if there's not enough free electrons flowing, loads will be dimmer than they should be  (once the system starts, there's capacity in the magnetic field and capacitors that need to be filled... once there is that, I don't think the ground is required; the electrons shouldn't be consumed in their reactions to generate like light ... or even drive a motor...








Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2020, 10:26:21 AM »
And I didn't get a chance to record it - I don't know how to 'let the air out of the tires' so to speak....


I was having problems getting the ends to be +/- so I grounded the other end, and they started oscillating right, reconnected the load,
got much more output, disconnected the ground and everything was still the same
turned off all the power and started again and ... the good state; so I don't know
how to provide 'if you see this, maybe you want to try this...'

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2020, 11:02:05 PM »

For the electrical engineers... If I count the turns, and count the radius, and get an LC, and measure that LC for a coil to be the same, the coil IS the same as any other coil of similar LC?


Then how would anyone ever know the difference.  This is NOT tough; and there is no trickery in the jump cuts.  No video I make and post or promote has ads or is expecting some personal gain from you watching it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuIiA7TWzmY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUZyoQwoG9c


J

 

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