Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 892811
  • *Total Topics: 15669
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 14
  • *Total: 15

Author Topic: Toroidal Coils  (Read 38718 times)

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Toroidal Coils
« on: October 23, 2013, 12:56:51 AM »

(sorry if this somehow ends up duplicated)

I have been playing with these toroidal coils; specifically in a ratio of 1:1 for turns around vs through the toroidal form.


I want to record some notes; and maybe get some input on how to further use these to manipulate the focused fields.... I need another signal generator at least... for each vortex that gets opened, I want to keep open instead of having it(them) close...


There isn't a specific term for these coils; ABHA (Abha?) maybe; they are not pancake, and they are not solenoid.  Although both of these other forms of coils perform a similar function and have similar results, they do not have the same results.


Each turn is exactly the same length as every other turn from the center to a certain diameter of the outer substance.... on every layer.  Every turn has it's focus point centered in the middle of the toroid. 


The center void is the most active area of induction; although detectable inductions can happen through each loop.  Each loop is also tightly closed with itself.  Every loop passes through every other loop, enforcing that in any direction the flux will definatly cross the other side.


They make an excellent 1:1 transformer even though it has an air core.


*Terms for the 2 diameters that can be refered to in common language need to exist*




the number of turns through the center determine the frequency; for similar geometrys, 12 turns has a resonant frequency of 10Mhz, 24 turns has a resonant frequency at 5Mhz (approximately, by a large percentage of probable error).  If the coil has turns the size of a nickel or is 2 dollar bills across, they experience a similar resonant frequency.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Toroidal Coils
« on: October 23, 2013, 12:56:51 AM »

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2013, 01:05:18 AM »
Some other winds I did.....


I have one other that's higher density; and much lower frequency...

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2013, 01:18:30 AM »
this generates solid 10:1 resonant output for a sine wave input at about 85Khz... it's about 40-50m of wire wound in 4 layers.


One descending CCW  5m
One descending CW    7.5m
One descending CCW  10m

One descending CW    15m


As the diameter of the outside substance increases, the amount of windings it can hold increases.  Winding it back and forth likes this makes a very stable structure.


This doesn't work like a joule thief winding; not in joule theif mode anyway, it can be wired in a similar condition, but using more of a blocking oscillator... you can make a transistor oscillate by just making a slow charge on the gate that is cleared when it conducts... without having the saturation take place.  A higher power joule theif will run current until saturation of the core and a spontaneous dump provides the most output force.


If this coil is wound on a feous toroid, it doesn't matter, and really seems irrelavent; so although there is a composite field which should be thorugh the toroid, the real composite is through the toroid.


I have a video that very badly (doesn't show at all) shows that the field from the toroid is directional;  The dectection coil has to be also resonant with the coil being detected; if it is not, even though the coil is active, the indicator shows no result.


I had my first contracted coil ( loose wound with a tie in the center....)...


I had this chained to a bunch of the others of similar turn count, and ended up with a higher resant output; but each toroid had its own field ... and it was focused so the detector center vertical axis had to aligh with the center of the other toroid vertical axis to be best effect.   The field on the loose toroid was detexted vertical to the center, a small diamter from the center.... so the real bubble was within the point of the toroid.... 


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2013, 01:18:30 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2013, 01:24:15 AM »
Okay, and one more thing, the SEG (searl effect gen) requires a spiral pattern be imprinted on the magnets; that's paritally the drive the winding of the large bore toroid.  Although a field is definatly in the center, if the red was grounded or isolated, (existing only for spacing) a high current could be fed through the green and imprint a progressive, diagonal n/s field.  ... so then is there 12:1 turns around the stator? or is it also 1:1, and therefore a different gradient.  BUt there could then appear individual poles going around the top. 


This is a test winding using red plastic weed cutter...


The tension on the line to be straight  (the line wants to be straight not curved) causes it to press against the inner side of the cardboard tube used as a former.

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2013, 01:53:11 AM »

Did I mention that the best effect is found when driving the coil in an open ended fashion?







Here's a list of videos...


by the way; this coil is very flexible in the direction to collapse the central point tighter.  the more pressure is applied in the center outward


Showing the construction of the large coil.

It started from a flat winding, and it's a single rotation to expand it.... although depending on the axis of the turn it does expand in different directions.... the resulting pumpkin, tight center shape is uhmm... like a 45 degree axis rotation... from ehere the eends come out 180 degrees from each other...

Video showing the large coil.... expanded some from contractionand it's a single rotation to expand it.... although depending on the axis of the turn it does expand in different directions.... the resulting pumpkin, tight center shape is uhmm... like a 45 degree axis rotation... from ehere the eends come out 180 degrees from each other...


attempting to use a toroid to induce into a solenoid...   Didnt' have much luck...  I dunno maybe I'll try it differently.  I have a suspicison that this will be a better than pancake to induce into a tesla coil.... but I've not gotten a successful tesla coil with output... (other than basic straight induction from the high voltage pulse); maybe it's because I beleive things like the prior statement...




How do I incrase the power output to a dead open circuit?  Is this an antenna?  Should I connect it... I dunno ground it is bad, the opposite end of the coil from the signal generator experiences a high voltage output;  Near resonance, the voltage expressed at the input is decreased;  The phase at resonance also shifts... like the optimal power phase the input and output signals are not 180 or 90 degrees out of phase, but are much less; but increasing the frequency past resonance, then the input signal increases voltage.  Now There have been a few points and harmonics I have hit because of the capacitance of the scope, and consolidating and removing the probes changed the frequency. 


Earlier I was experimenting with these coils, but was driving them in a close loop fashion. .... And I did find certain effects, turns out the resnant frequency was feeding back to the transistor and unbalancing it so it would self oscillate, without grounding the gate (almost directly, using a test lead as a resistor)... it kept getting into a runaway condition; I ended up driving the coil as an inverter and getting from 27V and 2.2Amps to powering a flouresent light and 100V LED load quite brighly... but then that's like 35W.  But, the coil is 1:1 winding ratio.

   This is that...      using my TL494 Driver from Dally project...  This was optimally a short duty cycle, not the shortest, but not the longest either.... but there was a wide range... and it was best to find the best power point with a short duty cucle, and then incrase the duty cycle to have a larger current flow; But this didn't really have resonant points... this was just a particular frequency... but probably it's because ti's a square wave which is stimulating a lot of octives at once.





Like; if I have a transformer that's some 12:1 ratio, and connect the pulse generator to the 1 side, and this coil on the output, I won't get anything.  if I connect the other end of the transformer secondary to ground, and have these on the open output side, is that the same sort of pulse?  Is there a way I can make a more isolated pulse ? 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2013, 01:53:11 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2013, 08:20:04 AM »
- ammended notes -


I said the point of focus was the same in all coils, this is not true; it is the center of the torus, but is offset in progressively outer windings;  There may be a desire to keep the minor diameter at < 1/4(?) the major diameter; this will keep the focus of each loop within empty space.


Toroidal dimensions are referred to as major and minor also... so major is the radius that rotates around the vertical axis of the toroid.  The vertical axis is a pretty good reference?  then the minor radius is that  which is the area cross section; a picture worth a hundred words in this case :(


- Edit Added toroidal coil usage schematic; and vertical axis reference idea.



I have a single layer bifilar solenoid coil from my (pyramid generator; from that austrian(?) guy... the coils when used in a cpacitve/nidicutor mode end up being a AM frequency but anyway... ) it's 12 gauge wound on a single layer and another coil the same length of wire wound on top of that; using a square wave it stinulates voltage increase at 1Mhz like other similar toroidal coils, ( I guess; but in much more space).




I guess all of tesla's receiving coils were grounded; in my extended coil test, the last ones weren't actually connected to the signal sources either...


So... maybe dollard's LMD could be formed with these... hmm no it sort of lacks a capacitive element.




So, if there isn't a saturation point (which only ferro magnetic cores reach) there's just an ever expanding field... , how many pulses do I need to be able to hold the field open?  3 phases wouldn't seem to be enough ...


6 phases might be enough, one every 30 degrees...  wish I had a better sketch program... (or a graphing calculator; found one; Hmm ya 30 degree offset, for 6 is 180; and makes a good composite, but still collapses...


*sorry I'm just sort of thinking aloud*
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 08:21:52 PM by d3x0r »

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2013, 09:10:25 PM »
This is roughly what my setup looks like.  The signal generator is a TL494 or a RIGOL 20mhz pulse genrator (+/-3V max); if it is the signal generator, it replaces everything up to the connection to L3; the air core pair L3/L4 is the first 1-1 toroidal coil....


L1-L2 pair (looks like a mangled L2 on the image I think) is a step up transformer; in my case this has a resonant frequency at 455Khz something that is hard to escape, and the ferro-magnetic core... (this is a 0-n toroid coil, that is the loops are wound entirely around the minor diameter, so the angle of their vertical axis is 90 degrees from the vertical axis; you know all loops preferaby without actually completing 1 wind around the major diameter )


L3 in any case is connected to a pulsing signal on one side and open on the other.  LEDs may be connected in series to provide a high voltage breakdown ; Neons or something otherwise may be approprite at higher levels...


The bridge rectifier to capacitive storage is only connected on one side; so could be simplified to 2 diodes I think.


the S1 and S2 are remanents of when I was testing without L1-L2 stepup; and was driving a voltage through L3 with the other end attached to power (in the place of L1); I would get back pulses that I think trigger a (collector resonant oscillator) behavior, and the NPN driving the NPN leaves the base of Q2 slightly high; so it ends up retriggering; in efforts to squelch that (the output from the TL494 is really a NPN transistor that is Q1 broken out from the signal generator itself) it has a 5V voltage regulator supply to trigger the gate of Q2 which is a parallel array of transistors/mosfets to drive heavy currents.  In http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xMQADpPE2U]some video closing S1 (aka attaching with a clip lead) (attaching an inductor to the gate of Q2, after already having some oscillation, non self starting) then I could get similar power with significant reduction in amp draw.


the resistor on S2 is near 0 value; as a ground sink for any stray signal from Q1;



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2013, 09:10:25 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline xee2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2013, 01:48:42 AM »
The RMS voltage across an inductor is RMS amps times reactance in ohms. Thus 2 amps RMS AC will generate 2000 volts RMS across a 1000 ohm reactance. However, this voltage is pure reactive and can not do work. The power factor for an inductor and capacitor is zero. Your toroid driver circuit looks like it works by capturing the voltage spike produced when transistor turns off, much like a Joule thief. In this case the voltage across the coil depends on how fast the current turns off and the power is function of energy stored in magnetic field of coil. I would recommend using the full wave rectifier to charge the capacitors and then powering the LEDs from the capacitors. This prevents large voltage spikes from damaging the LEDs.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 03:49:11 AM by xee2 »

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2013, 05:43:21 AM »
The RMS voltage across an inductor is RMS amps times reactance in ohms. Thus 2 amps RMS AC will generate 2000 volts RMS across a 1000 ohm reactance. However, this voltage is pure reactive and can not do work. The power factor for an inductor and capacitor is zero. Your toroid driver circuit looks like it works by capturing the voltage spike produced when transistor turns off, much like a Joule thief. In this case the voltage across the coil depends on how fast the current turns off and the power is function of energy stored in magnetic field of coil. I would recommend using the full wave rectifier to charge the capacitors and then powering the LEDs from the capacitors. This prevents large voltage spikes from damaging the LEDs.

Okay; I made a spreadsheet with the reactance calculations.  And I understand that reactance is equal for then capacitance and inductance at a resonant frequency.   Erms=Irms*R...

yes, sometimes I have the LEDs across the capacitors; because that is a 500mf 1000v capacitor, sometimes it's much easier to find resonance with just the LEDs, and later attatch the capacitor.

Another experiment today; I put a new tri-filar (2 of the phone punchdown wire, 1 20g magnet wire ) to see if there was a detectable difference between receiving gauges of wire.  I put this coil inside the 14g red-green coil mostly flattened out (the outer diameter of the smaller coil is approx the same as the inner diameter of the red/green coil expanded as much as possible.  I found a resonance at 1.25Mhz, and later at 2.5Mhz, but; In this configuration, Introducing ferrite into the center played little effect; but laying it on the junction between the inner and outer coils affected the frequency significantly.  Alignment of the driving coil and receiving coil are very significant.  Improved stability of resonance by shorting the remaining 2 windings, or combining and grounding one end.  (To reiterate a little, the signal is on one filament of the inner toroidal coil, ground is only attached on the outer toroidal coil).  I replaced the new trifilar with an older, smaller bifilar, and it experienced the same resonant frequency (which again is hints that the frequency is more a factor of the receiving coil than the exciter/primary), but it has at least a half inch of distance between the larger and smaller coils, and it also works with ground only attached on the receiving outer coil; and works better if the second winding is shorted (self induced current?).


... the magnetic field is measured in like Amp-Meters, so increasing the current increases potential voltage.


this is a combined capacitor/inductor, with larger notable effect from its inductance.  why is the connection of ground on a specific side so cricital?  maybe because it ensures more length used as a capacitance, which allows a current flow, which is what gives the magnetic field... but if that is the case, then the reduced capacitance of the 14 guauge red/green coil would have a significant drop of power...; but if that was all really true, attaching the ground to an entirely different coil should also reduce the capacitance to a point that there is no current, and no voltage result? but it does not.

I'll record this later maybe. (a few todos; use micro toroid to drive large; retest large coil alone in a contracted state; coil calculator says 24 turns at 8inches with a length of 1inch is 200uH; and 24 turns at 8 inches with a length of 8 inches is  79.4 microhenries.  which is approximately what I measure with my meter between flatened/expanded and contracted (tight center, tall loops).  (hmm at 200uH, 1Mhz, is   126.65  Picofarad, but I am attached to a scope to see this, although detaching probes does not disturb the frequencies enough to affect the output much )

But; early coils that were only 24 feet of wire (12' cw descending and 12' ccw, and shorted so the general direction around the toroid is the same direction (cw or ccw from one end to the other) transferred lots of power. 

To go back to Erms=Irms*R; I would expect Rind = Rcap, and Rind primary = Rind secondary; so what is the voltage increase?  Resonant stacking; is there a cap to resonant voltage?  I guess Emax=Imax*Rind; so what is Imax theoertical?  AWG guages of wire have a measured current they carry; but I've seen high frequency induction carry lots of power on a very thin wire....

Oh
-----------------------------------
Edit; gotit.


So increased inductance increases Rind and decreased capacitance increases Rcap; so in the case of a tesla coil the Rind primary vs Rind seconary results in a translation in the Erms=Irms*Rsec vs Rpri


Rcap= Reactance capacitance
Rpri = Reactance Inductance Primary (exciter)

Rsec = Reactance Inductance Secondary (receiver)


--------------


If I just attach the coil end at the collector and attach the 12V to the collector of a NPN; so the interuption is the pulse into the coil from the current stopping... would that be a good driver system?  is that closer resemblance to a spark gap a pulse driver into the coil?  Wastes a lot of current that way though...

« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 08:21:42 AM by d3x0r »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2013, 05:43:21 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline xee2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2013, 09:38:19 AM »

So increased inductance increases Rind and decreased capacitance increases Rcap; so in the case of a tesla coil the Rind primary vs Rind seconary results in a translation in the Erms=Irms*Rsec vs Rpri


Rcap= Reactance capacitance
Rpri = Reactance Inductance Primary (exciter)




Yes. But reactance is usually written as XC annd XL. Rind is usually the DC resistance of the wire.
"RMS voltage = RMS AC current times reactance"
is usually used with sine waves.
You are also experiencing coil loading. This is where the inductance of one coil is effected by coupling to another coil. Capacitive loading is also possible.


I think you have made the circuit so complicated that it is hard to understand. Perhaps experimenting with a simple series LC circuit made by putting a simple coil in series with a capacitor on the sig gen output would make things clearer.




Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2013, 11:14:51 AM »

is usually used with sine waves.
You are also experiencing coil loading. This is where the inductance of one coil is effected by coupling to another coil. Capacitive loading is also possible.


I think you have made the circuit so complicated that it is hard to understand. Perhaps experimenting with a simple series LC circuit made by putting a simple coil in series with a capacitor on the sig gen output would make things clearer.


Actually I'm mostly just using a signal generator a coil (or pair) and the LED load.... just considering ways to use more power... the signal generator is just an output from some semiconductor chip of unknown capacitance and unknown current. 


But earlier I was the pulse generator and a couple higher power transistors; and that was a square wave on the input and the output (well a sharp pulse anyway); and was non resonant; but had the equivalent increase in voltage that I get with a lower power resonant frequency.....




I guess the ground side doesn't matter on the recieving coil; if it's a seperate coil that has the ground...


The second image; test schematic represents the 2-coupled trifilar-bifilar coil test that the ferrite in the center of the toroid doesn't help...


the third image test schematic 2 is what my bench currently has, I get some 15V out, 3V in, 3Mhz, ground only on the second (outer); shorted winding important, but I can also just extend the primary winding to be both in a continouous path and that also helps...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2013, 11:14:51 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline xee2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2013, 03:22:58 PM »
This is a simple 2 transistor driver for square waves that worked for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KOTqPIqe1o


Be sure to use the output capacitor if you build it.

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2013, 06:04:32 AM »
This is a simple 2 transistor driver for square waves that worked for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KOTqPIqe1o


Be sure to use the output capacitor if you build it.
Okay; that is a simple mod to my existing driver module; but I could only get 5V between Q1 and Q2....


running simulation, it's limited to the gate voltage of the NPN; unless the collector voltage is lower than that.  As the capacitor charges, the emitter voltage becomes higher; which makes its ground reference 5v=0... (something like that)




Offline xee2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2013, 02:16:54 PM »
Okay; that is a simple mod to my existing driver module; but I could only get 5V between Q1 and Q2....


running simulation, it's limited to the gate voltage of the NPN; unless the collector voltage is lower than that.  As the capacitor charges, the emitter voltage becomes higher; which makes its ground reference 5v=0... (something like that)


I like the circuit because it only draws current from +V when charging the capacitor. As the capacitor is charged and discharged the current flows back and forth through the transformer primary thus providing an AC input to the transformer.

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
Re: Toroidal Coils
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2013, 12:09:48 AM »
4th time's the charm; doesn't like attaching lots of files today.


Animated view of coil....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpC5Z6zMlD4

Contracting the coil reduces inductance some, but increases the output voltage.

 

OneLink