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Author Topic: Building a self looping "SMOT"  (Read 296288 times)

elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #555 on: November 07, 2013, 01:19:24 AM »
Hi Elecar,
Could I come to see your working SMOT in place of TK, I would be quite happy to do that as I live in the UK?
I can get mine to loop twice, but that's as good as it gets so far.


Meggerman

Hi meggerman, I know the thread has gone off track but please read posts 542 & 529.

maw2432

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #556 on: November 07, 2013, 01:29:27 AM »

Hi Bill

Test video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSXhQOrE6dc&feature=youtu.be

Normans track video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHXTFfnon6g&feature=youtu.be


I do not understand the question ? I put a video up and was asked to redo it, that's what I did. The ball travels down the ramp round the bend and into the center of the magnet array even though my previous videos have shown I did not "FLICK" the ball that is the new accusation. I could care less whether I am believed or not but I did not flick the ball the ball was pulled to the side of the ramp where the magnets are.
Hi Elecar,
Thank you for the video.    Sorry,  I am just confused as to where you should start the ball rolling to make sure it is working as you would expect. 
Bill
 
 

elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #557 on: November 07, 2013, 01:36:04 AM »
Hi Elecar,
Thank you for the video.    Sorry,  I am just confused as to where you should start the ball rolling to make sure it is working as you would expect. 
Bill

Bill it has got confusing because the thread is bogged down with nonsense, thats not your fault. In the video of Normans track the ball is released at the top of the ramp on the magnet side, that is because the way Norman designed his track.
 On my prototype the ball is released on the down ramp, it does not matter where it is released on the down ramp as it always rolls into the magnet array as demonstrated in the video  here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSXhQOrE6dc&feature=youtu.be

TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #558 on: November 07, 2013, 02:17:59 AM »
And that's exactly where it stops... except of course those times when, in spite of your post, it doesn't even make it that far.

Keep posting more of these videos... each one just shows you can't produce proof of your claims.


Anyone can clearly see from my still frame captures and from the video itself that they are taken from that you have 1) moved the ball to the LEFT from where you first put it down, storing energy just as if you pulled back on a spring, and 2) that the release position is HIGHER than the ball ever gets again, and 3) that your fingers flick the ball to the RIGHT as you "release" it. Yet the ball only goes one time around the loop. IOW, the video is proof of the fact that you are willing to cheat to get your point across, and/or you don't understand the energy storage in MPE, and/or you don't have motor control of your fingers any more.

Your whining claim that you didn't flick the ball is contradicted by the video itself.

LibreEnergia

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #559 on: November 07, 2013, 02:26:01 AM »

PM me your email address and I will send you the video that will not load on this forum as it is to large. All I want you to do in return is come back and say you have received the video you have watched it and that you apologize for the statement above. Deal ?

I have examined the video carefully and I cannot discount fraud on your part. There are certain video compression artefacts that re-occur in exactly the same way as the ball loops. This makes me suspect it is a shot of a single loop repeatedly spliced.

I could be wrong, perhaps the repeated motion is creating exactly the same effect at the same time, but I am unconvinced as yet.

If you could provide a video that has an unambiguous forward timeline included then I would perhaps be convinced and prepared to congratulate you on your achievement.

If it is genuine I still don't think it shows over-unity (it stops), However, the apparent losses in the system are much smaller than I would have expected. Although you do not appear to push the ball at the starting point it does have an excess of GPE (due to the release point being higher than the gate.)  That could cause it to complete at least one rotation if friction was low.









elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #560 on: November 07, 2013, 03:14:31 AM »
I have examined the video carefully and I cannot discount fraud on your part. There are certain video compression artefacts that re-occur in exactly the same way as the ball loops. This makes me suspect it is a shot of a single loop repeatedly spliced.

I could be wrong, perhaps the repeated motion is creating exactly the same effect at the same time, but I am unconvinced as yet.

If you could provide a video that has an unambiguous forward timeline included then I would perhaps be convinced and prepared to congratulate you on your achievement.

If it is genuine I still don't think it shows over-unity (it stops), However, the apparent losses in the system are much smaller than I would have expected. Although you do not appear to push the ball at the starting point it does have an excess of GPE (due to the release point being higher than the gate.)  That could cause it to complete at least one rotation if friction was low.

So now the video is a fraud also ? 
What are video compression artifacts ? What is an unambiguous forward time line ?
Yes it stops the track is very poor the ball sometimes contacts the pins, it is uneven and the friction does not help. You have the video you can check it frame by frame, there is no trick no splice no fraud.
I have a cheap Sanyo VPC3600 snap shot camera that has a video feature, no matter what I do, what evidence I supply there is always gonna be someone who will try to discredit it. I will set up the track again and take another video for you, although I think I am wasting my time banging my head against a wall.



MileHigh

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #561 on: November 07, 2013, 03:25:03 AM »
How about uploading the video to a freebie file sharing website?  Slice it into .rar's if you have to.

Hopefully the good thing about the thread is that people understand the dynamics at play.  The ball has MPE, GPE and KE all the time.  You are conscious of this and watch the way they interchange with each other through time.  You are conscious of the fact that friction is always draining away the KE.

So if this was to self-loop, then there must be a "magic" injection of MPE, GPE or KE from "somewhere."

MPE - where you are with respect to the magnetic potential well.  You are either falling into the well and gaining KE or you are trying to get out of the well and losing KE.

GPE - how high or low you are.  Fall down -> gain KE.  Rise up -> lose KE.

KE - how fast you are going (and some KE is stored in the spinning of the ball itself)

So knowing that Mother Nature has dealt you this set of cards, the game always plays out the same way.  When the ball rolls friction eats away at the energy in the ball and turns it into heat.

So, something like a video would be a good first step.

We can always "cash bomb" Sterling to the UK, plus a detour, and he will set forth....  But I personally don't trust him!  Foiled!

LibreEnergia

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #562 on: November 07, 2013, 03:52:35 AM »
So now the video is a fraud also ? 
What are video compression artifacts ? What is an unambiguous forward time line ?
Yes it stops the track is very poor the ball sometimes contacts the pins, it is uneven and the friction does not help. You have the video you can check it frame by frame, there is no trick no splice no fraud.
I have a cheap Sanyo VPC3600 snap shot camera that has a video feature, no matter what I do, what evidence I supply there is always gonna be someone who will try to discredit it. I will set up the track again and take another video for you, although I think I am wasting my time banging my head against a wall.

The fact it was shot on a cheap camera is of no consequence. What is of consequence is that the exact distortion and pixilation that comes from the camera compressing the video repeats exactly during the middle part of the video  (assessed by eye only at this stage.)

I shall be checking it frame by frame by extracting out the raw frame and comparing the binary data.

An unambiguous forward time line could be as simple as a clock or timer in the frame that counts forward to make a simple splice more difficult to do.


MileHigh

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #563 on: November 07, 2013, 04:11:43 AM »
LibreEnergia:

The trick is to make the video full screen and then look at it and almost let your eyes go out of focus and go into a kind of trance.  You feel the rhythm of the video and as you start to feel it you notice at one particular time in the cycle there is a "tick," a subtle sense of a discontinuity.  Now that you suspect where it is your focus your trance towards that instant and then the discontinuity becomes more pronounced and you can feel it more clearly.

The next step now that you have located the time instant of the discontinuity is to look elsewhere in the frame for more evidence.  Now you just look at one spot and watch what it does at the instant of the discontinuity.  You may have to look at several spots until you see a definite signature that indicates the discontinuity.

Before you even start doing that you can look at the video and look for the most logical place (or possibly places) to do the loop.  Perhaps when the ball slows down or stops is a good place to do the edit.

Often a different audio track is laid down on top of the looping video because our ears are much more acute in detecting the discontinuity.  There you could possibly look for slight offsets between the audio track and the video track.

MileHigh

TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #564 on: November 07, 2013, 05:16:17 AM »
It's too bad there aren't more women posting. Then we could have "filly minions".

Meanwhile... Two loops are better than one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q21CjmPV8fg


MileHigh

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #565 on: November 07, 2013, 05:24:50 AM »
Quote
I shall be checking it frame by frame by extracting out the raw frame and comparing the binary data.

Wow!  That would be cool!  It would be incontrovertible evidence of looping if you find a repeating digital pattern because there is always random sensor noise, even in a digital video stream, such that no two frames will ever be the same.

TK:

May the Cheese be with you.

TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #566 on: November 07, 2013, 05:38:27 AM »
(snip)
TK:

May the Cheese be with you.

Thanks.
The little black thing near the ramp is a magnet, glued to the baseboard. So you will note several things. Yes, the ball starts out from a slightly elevated position, but it is IN a magnetic potential _well_ at that point due to its attraction to the magnet. There is no "pulling to stretch a spring" when I put the ball down. And my release system makes it IMPOSSIBLE for me to add any extra flick or push to the ball. There is a slight hump in the track just where the ramp joins it, and the track itself is pretty darn level, as shown by the sensitive bubble level in the center. The ball goes down the ramp, over the hump, around the track, where it is accelerated by the magnet near the ramp... then it goes over the hump again and completely around the track _again_, making two full loops plus a bit.

It took me about an hour to build this, from scrap materials I have on hand. The track is made from drip-irrigation tubing, glued down with rubber cement. The magnet is a fairly strong ceramic disk magnet, the ball is unpolished (not smooth like a ball bearing) steel, and the baseboard is Luan mahogany plywood, with brass levelling screws at 3 locations. The bubble level cost about 2 dollars at the hardware store.

Anyone who likes can come and visit me to see that there is absolutely no trickery, and I'll even buy them a beer or two. The cheese makes a good snack, with beer and crackers.

Let the flames begin.

MileHigh

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #567 on: November 07, 2013, 05:45:57 AM »
A chill-out interlude....  What a project!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFd6WsObOu4

Pirate88179

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #568 on: November 07, 2013, 05:51:23 AM »
It's too bad there aren't more women posting. Then we could have "filly minions".

Meanwhile... Two loops are better than one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q21CjmPV8fg

 A sharp cheddar would give more attraction while Limburger would give more repulsion.


Well done.

Bill

tinman

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #569 on: November 07, 2013, 06:45:50 AM »
The offer has been made to  TK.
 Any other takers concidered elecar?

I wouldnt ask Sterling,as he is just in it for finacial gain now,and loves the !!all expences paid!! trips.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 08:55:24 AM by tinman »