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Author Topic: Building a self looping "SMOT"  (Read 239632 times)

Offline happyfunball

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2013, 11:12:54 PM »
No, I don't. How hard is it to open up an opening to be wide enough for a ball to drop? I'll bet even you could do it... and I'll bet that if it worked, you would show it working. I know I would!

Come on man, the ball rests in the opening after traversing the loop, and could clearly drop.

I've never seen that, I know you haven't either.


Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2013, 11:14:05 PM »
@TK Don't you think the video posted of the ball returning to the original position is proof? Seems to me if the opening were wide enough to let it drop, it would loop. But I could be wrong. Still, returning to the starting point is pretty remarkable. (I realize it's not technically the original spot, but it is above it with enough momentum to drop. It is probably equal to the input required to hold the ball in position and release from a few inches below?)

I don't have the magnets to try it but I bet you do, left over from the Mylow days.

If it is legit this would probably considered a gravity assisted SMOT (?)


Happyfunball feel free to direct your questions to TK, as he is the forum know it all.

But I can assure you the ball will NOT drop from the test track and loop back. The ball needs to be traveling in reverse in the field and be directed away from the field whilst in the weaker section of field. Does not matter how wide the opening is it will not escape the magnetic field as set up on the test track.
And just to be clear I have never stated it would.

Offline happyfunball

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2013, 11:15:54 PM »

Happyfunball feel free to direct your questions to TK, as he is the forum know it all.

But I can assure you the ball will NOT drop from the test track and loop back. The ball needs to be traveling in reverse in the field and be directed away from the field whilst in the weaker section of field. Does not matter how wide the opening is it will not escape the magnetic field as set up on the test track.
And just to be clear I have never stated it would.

Ummm... ok...

Well good luck then with whatever it is you have there.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2013, 11:15:58 PM »
Come on man, the ball rests in the opening. after traversing the loop and can clearly drop.

I've never seen that, I know you haven't either.

Wrong. It can't "clearly drop" and I've seen it many times. Do you think this is the first SMOT we've seen here? The first time even that that design variant has been shown?

Go on, show it dropping, if you can, and repeating the cycle without outside help. I say you cannot.

Why not? What possible reason is there for not showing the complete cycle with the thing running along all by itself over and over?

What reason, other than the fact that it is physically impossible, I mean?

Offline happyfunball

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2013, 11:18:28 PM »
Wrong. It can't "clearly drop" and I've seen it many times. Do you think this is the first SMOT we've seen here? The first time even that that design variant has been shown?

Go on, show it dropping, if you can, and repeating the cycle without outside help. I say you cannot.

Why not? What possible reason is there for not showing the complete cycle with the thing running along all by itself over and over?

What reason, other than the fact that it is physically impossible, I mean?

You're not being honest.

It could obviously drop, and no I have never seen a SMOT make it that far. If you have, please point me to a video. Thanks.

Regardless, elecar has now stated it won't loop as shown so... next

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2013, 11:21:36 PM »
You're not being honest.

It could obviously drop, and no I have never seen a SMOT make it that far. If you have, please point me to a video. Thanks.

Even elecar says it cannot drop. So how is it "obvious" to you that it could?

Not everything I've seen is available on video, but there are plenty of SMOTs on YouTube and none of them work, they all get hung up. Please don't ask me to do your homework for you.

Is everything you have seen, on YouTube?

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2013, 11:25:01 PM »

Happyfunball feel free to direct your questions to TK, as he is the forum know it all.

But I can assure you the ball will NOT drop from the test track and loop back. (snip)

I don't know everything, elecar, but I know a false claim when I see one presented, with no supporting evidence at all.

Think of how easy it would be for you to refute me and make me look totally stupid: all you have to do is to provide real evidence that you have what you claim. What's your excuse for not supporting your claim with evidence? Are you just being polite to the "forum know it all" ? Refute me. You cannot, so you will insult me instead.

Offline happyfunball

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2013, 11:26:37 PM »
Even elecar says it cannot drop. So how is it "obvious" to you that it could?

Not everything I've seen is available on video, but there are plenty of SMOTs on YouTube and none of them work, they all get hung up. Please don't ask me to do your homework for you.

Is everything you have seen, on YouTube?

You really are an obnoxious horse's ass.

Take it down a notch.

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2013, 11:27:08 PM »
Actually happyfunball to correct myself it can drop, but it is only 6 mm above the lowest point at the point the "hole" is, so when it drops it has 2 problems (1) it is at the same height as the start point with no way to return (2) it is right near the strongest part of the magnetic ramp and would not escape the field.
I am happy to provide you with video proof of that.

Offline happyfunball

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2013, 11:31:53 PM »
Actually happyfunball to correct myself it can drop, but it is only 6 mm above the lowest point at the point the "hole" is, so when it drops it has 2 problems (1) it is at the same height as the start point with no way to return (2) it is right near the strongest part of the magnetic ramp and would not escape the field.
I am happy to provide you with video proof of that.

Ok. I mean in the video it comes to rest in the notch, so obviously could drop.

I still think it shows more than any SMOT video I've seen.

Thanks for posting.

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2013, 11:33:28 PM »
I don't know everything, elecar, but I know a false claim when I see one presented, with no supporting evidence at all.

Think of how easy it would be for you to refute me and make me look totally stupid: all you have to do is to provide real evidence that you have what you claim. What's your excuse for not supporting your claim with evidence? Are you just being polite to the "forum know it all" ? Refute me. You cannot, so you will insult me instead.

Please read the whole thread and the answer is there, even in the very first couple of posts and has been repeated since. 
You are of no consequence to me TK, as I have said before you are a bully, a know it all, and some have their noses buried so far up your ass they can see out of you nostrils. But you do not impress or bother me in the least. You are nothing but fodder to play with and abuse. You reap what you sow TK, you don't get respect from me without showing respect. How about you read the thread and then come in with you comments  and questions ?

Offline telecom

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2013, 11:37:57 PM »

Hi telecom, the effect is self explanatory, as the ball reverses in the magnetic field (see video) it moves from the strongest part of the field toward the weakest.
As it reverses under gravity it is still in the magnetic field, but which way is it going ? Is it being pulled up from the influence of the magnets ? or is it traveling backwards under the force of gravity ? Which one is having the greatest influence ?
When it is in the weaker part of the field it is diverted, gently away from the magnetic field and on to the downward incline. Gravity then takes it back to the start.

Remember the drawings here are a guide, you need to keep the two sections of track from the junction as close as possible until you are in that weak field. There are no "tricks" you just have to get the magnets and junction right, it took me months to get it right.

Ok, I understand what you are saying.
in this case it is probably more realistic to draw the junction at some distance away from the magnets. In this case magnets would push the ball forward, where the gravity could take over. Than the ball will reverse and slide down into the circular branch.
Have I understood this correctly?

Someone suggested to have a spring at the end of the straight section to deflect
the ball. I think this is a very bright idea which will allow to preserve the impulse of the ball after its pushed out from the magnetic field.

Can you please provide the link to the video you are referring to?
Thank you for being patient!

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2013, 11:43:34 PM »
Hi Telecom,  The spring idea might work, I do not know. But as I stated I did use a wedge of acrylic and even that was enough to stop the ball. So a spring may well impede the ball also I really do not know.
The video is on the 2nd page of this thread, the post above the video link explains the tests being done (for some reason I could not add the video to that post after I had posted the text.

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #73 on: October 11, 2013, 11:54:04 PM »
Hi Telecom, sorry for not answering all the question.
You need to position the junction around a 1/3rd of the distance the ball rolls in reverse. I suspect 1/2 way would be even better.
You can work out the distance by seeing how far your ball travels from the start of the ramp to where it starts to reverse, then place your junction a minimum of 1/3 back. Keep the return track at as shallow angle as you can, the ball will readily roll out of the weaker part of the field but will not roll out where the field is strong.

Offline telecom

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2013, 12:09:50 AM »
Hi Telecom, sorry for not answering all the question.
You need to position the junction around a 1/3rd of the distance the ball rolls in reverse. I suspect 1/2 way would be even better.
You can work out the distance by seeing how far your ball travels from the start of the ramp to where it starts to reverse, then place your junction a minimum of 1/3 back. Keep the return track at as shallow angle as you can, the ball will readily roll out of the weaker part of the field but will not roll out where the field is strong.
Thank you, I more or less understand now.
It also very much depends on the shape, position and other variables of the array
of the magnets.No wonder it took months! I can see lots of tedious work, even with the info you provided!