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Author Topic: Building a self looping "SMOT"  (Read 221478 times)

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2013, 05:11:41 PM »
Hi JDSanders, I am a grandad to 8 girls, so there is nothing that anyone can throw at me on here that will bother me.

Lumen, I am pretty sure there are many ways to improve on the design, I have actually just ordered some more materials to try a couple of them out.

Hi Bill, I did not use a bumper as such during my trials, what I did was attach a very slim wedge shaped piece of acrylic to the magnet side rail of the track to try and guide the ball, it did NOT work the resistance was enough to stop the ball and it was held where it was by the magnets.
Please look at the drawing, the rail circled is the critical rail. It must allow the ball to travel smoothly up the ramp and when the ball descends it must be positioned to guide it onto the exit. It does take a lot of playing with you can not have the rail sit too high where it impedes the ball traveling up but high enough that it will bias the ball rolling in reverse to the exit. although that is how I did it, I really do believe there are easier ways. Something else that is important is that you can not divert the ball just as it starts to reverse, you have to allow it at least a third of the straight section to gain enough momentum to exit. That is why I said you should do the tests because they will help you get the magnet positions correct. You will get an idea of how the ball reverses and how much space/length you need before the junction. Do not build your ramp with too steep an angle otherwise the magnets will have to be placed to close to the track and your ball will not escape the field.





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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2013, 05:11:41 PM »

Offline norman6538

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2013, 05:15:05 PM »
@elecar
 
I think you really started some gears turning in this thread.
If what you show is true, then there are many ways to improve this to the point of real output energy.

This device is carefully balanced and when you take power out you upset that balance
and risk stopping it entirely.
Think about this. Where is the energy? It can only be from the normal stopping point of
a pendulum where the magnets lift the ball further along to the where it runs out of
inertia and the small attraction force and gravity wins again and the ball drops. So its only the gravity power  at that small distance where it drops to its starting point.
 Lets say you scale this up to the size of a one car garage with a big ball. With proper timing I think you could take a small amount of power out without destroying the balance but nothing in the order of significant horsepower - maybe light a small light or something.
HOWEVER - anything at all will disturb the establishment greatly.....

If Elecar simply turns a tiny fan or something he will be out in front of the other horses in this race.  Yeah Elicar!!!! So this is small like the sputnik satellite but major.

Norman



Offline truesearch

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2013, 05:16:31 PM »
This "SMOT" design idea presented by elecar is very interesting to me. I've been thinking there might be an easy and effective way to switch/gate/redirect the ball at the tear-drop point. Look at the following drawing. If the "main" track would narrow and narrow as it went up the ramp to the point where the ball would simply "drop" off onto the return track wouldn't this make a non-friction and non-energy-using "switch"? But perhaps I'm not grasping all the angles.


truesearch

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2013, 05:16:31 PM »
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Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2013, 05:30:02 PM »
Truesearch, I like your thinking but alas I tried that and it failed. I think I have an idea of why, when you set your magnets to pull the ball up the track they are set in such a way to act on your Specific ball and specific track. If you alter the track as it rises the ball will get pulled off of the track toward the magnets. As Norman has said, it is a balancing act.

Here is something interesting, you would think that if you have a 19mm ball running on the tack it would require more work than a 12mm ball ?
NOPE the 12 mm ball will not even travel as far up the ramp as the 19mm ball when you set the magnets and ramp for the 19mm ball.
Maybe just me but you would think the smaller lighter ball would travel further ?

Offline norman6538

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2013, 05:34:26 PM »
Truesearch - you have a great idea there, especially the horizontal smot, but the real problem is, in terms of a clock the ball is dropped from noon or thereabouts but it will not go past 11 or thereabouts and the smot is the trick that lifts the ball that final hour and then the "elecar trick" gets it past the sticky spot so the cycle can be repeated again.

Norman


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2013, 05:34:26 PM »
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Offline truesearch

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2013, 06:01:38 PM »
Oh, I see. I hadn't rationalized the effect of the underlying magnet and the ball being attracted at the DROP down toward B in my previous diagram ~ and that would be the "sticky" spot. Thanks for that info.


@elecar: did you try having a "bump" so that the ball would be directed toward the return-downhill ramp? I've attached another drawing below.


And maybe this isn't a concern at all. I'm only considering the need for a no-energy-wasted method of directing the ball down around the tear-drop track.


truesearch

Offline telecom

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2013, 06:06:42 PM »
Hi elecar,
I think your teardrop idea is great, but I don't see how the ball travels back under the gravity towards the junction point,
since it has to go against the magnets which pulled it up against the gravity.
Won't it get stuck, or there is some other trick which is "patent pending"?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2013, 06:06:42 PM »
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Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2013, 07:12:08 PM »
Hi truesearch see my reply at the top of this page, I did not use a bump I used an acrylic wedge and it did not work.


Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2013, 07:24:00 PM »
Hi elecar,
I think your teardrop idea is great, but I don't see how the ball travels back under the gravity towards the junction point,
since it has to go against the magnets which pulled it up against the gravity.
Won't it get stuck, or there is some other trick which is "patent pending"?


Hi telecom, the effect is self explanatory, as the ball reverses in the magnetic field (see video) it moves from the strongest part of the field toward the weakest.
As it reverses under gravity it is still in the magnetic field, but which way is it going ? Is it being pulled up from the influence of the magnets ? or is it traveling backwards under the force of gravity ? Which one is having the greatest influence ?
When it is in the weaker part of the field it is diverted, gently away from the magnetic field and on to the downward incline. Gravity then takes it back to the start.

Remember the drawings here are a guide, you need to keep the two sections of track from the junction as close as possible until you are in that weak field. There are no "tricks" you just have to get the magnets and junction right, it took me months to get it right.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2013, 07:24:00 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2013, 07:28:25 PM »
This device is carefully balanced and when you take power out you upset that balance
and risk stopping it entirely.
Think about this. Where is the energy? It can only be from the normal stopping point of
a pendulum where the magnets lift the ball further along to the where it runs out of
inertia and the small attraction force and gravity wins again and the ball drops. So its only the gravity power  at that small distance where it drops to its starting point.
 Lets say you scale this up to the size of a one car garage with a big ball. With proper timing I think you could take a small amount of power out without destroying the balance but nothing in the order of significant horsepower - maybe light a small light or something.
HOWEVER - anything at all will disturb the establishment greatly.....

If Elecar simply turns a tiny fan or something he will be out in front of the other horses in this race.  Yeah Elicar!!!! So this is small like the sputnik satellite but major.

Norman

Hi Norman,
 
If you just scale it up, then the energy gain would remain proportional and likely very small.
The idea is to understand what is the principal that allows this to work at all, and work to increase the cause.
 
I might need to build this to work on the principal behind it, but off hand I think it depends greatly on the magnets used. Not so much the type, but the shape.
My reasoning is that it may be much easier to build a working device using magnets 2" square x .12" thick so the attracting array would be 2" x 8" rather than something narrow like 1" x 8".
 
The idea would be to enter the ramp with three edges pulling on the ball causing good acceleration, then somewhere close to the center, only two edges would be pulling on the ball with less force.  This is what helps it to achieve breakaway from the magnets near the center of the ramp where the attraction is less.
 
Of course, this is only my guess and only elecar knows for sure, but I am working to find the logic as this entire concept in itself is impossible but there it is!
 
 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 10:35:04 PM by lumen »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2013, 10:06:48 PM »
Where's the video of the device running continuously without outside power?

:Screenshot or it didn't happen:

 ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2013, 10:06:48 PM »
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Offline happyfunball

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2013, 10:46:52 PM »
@TK Don't you think the video posted of the ball returning to the original position is proof? Seems to me if the opening were wide enough to let it drop, it would loop. But I could be wrong. Still, returning to the starting point is pretty remarkable. (I realize it's not technically the original spot, but it is above it with enough momentum to drop. It is probably equal to the input required to hold the ball in position and release from a few inches below?)

I don't have the magnets to try it but I bet you do, left over from the Mylow days.

If it is legit this would probably considered a gravity assisted SMOT (?)


Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2013, 11:00:35 PM »
Where's the video of the device running continuously without outside power?

:Screenshot or it didn't happen:

 ;)


Whats up ? No elderly ladies to stalk and harass ?  Nothing to prove to you TK you know it all already.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2013, 11:09:42 PM »
@TK Don't you think the video posted of the ball returning to the original position is proof? Seems to me if the opening were wide enough to let it drop, it would loop. But I could be wrong. Still, returning to the starting point is pretty remarkable. (I realize it's not technically the original spot, but it is above it with enough momentum to drop. It is probably equal to the input required to hold the ball in position and release from a few inches below?)

I don't have the magnets to try it but I bet you do, left over from the Mylow days.

If it is legit this would probably considered a gravity assisted SMOT (?)
No, I don't. How hard is it to open up an opening to be wide enough for a ball to drop? I'll bet even you could do it... and I'll bet that if it worked, you would show it working. I know I would!


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2013, 11:11:22 PM »

Whats up ? No elderly ladies to stalk and harass ?  Nothing to prove to you TK you know it all already.

Ah.... I see you need to resort to off topic insults, ad-hominem abuse, and that you cannot produce what you have been claiming. That's not how to refute a challenger, there, elecar, but it's surprising how many people try to do it that way.... and fail.

I say again:

Screenshot, or it didn't happen.

You don't need to prove anything to me. Prove it to these other hopeful people who you are stringing along. I don't think you can, and I'm sure you won't.

 

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