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Author Topic: Building a self looping "SMOT"  (Read 221316 times)

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2013, 01:57:13 PM »
I think one could just machine it from a solid plate of aluminum about 1.25" thick.
Could first layout in cad to get a good passive crossover where the rail furthest from the magnets would taper closer to the other rail until the ball just falls over it onto the exit track. This could be done smoothly as to cause no change in height of the ball. (almost)


Hi Lumen, you have grasped the importance of the "crossover" (junction) it is as I mentioned way back, critical. You do not need to change the height of the ball only its direction. It must be guided away and down from the magnetic field.
The angle of exit must not be too sharp either. The closer you can run the angle of the exit to the straight the better.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2013, 01:57:13 PM »

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2013, 02:06:02 PM »
Hi Elecar,

Thank you for sharing your design and video.

I'm interested in your original track. What is the length of the track in the video?

I also attached a picture of a possible circular design(minus support structures to reduce clutter). It's an untested idea so it may or may not work.

It is at an exaggerated scale to show the curve better, the angle and curve would be a lot less perceptible. The idea is the same as yours but curved and where the ball would usually start to fall back down the ramp there is a very slight gradient tilting it towards the down side.

The way to build would be to make two rings of wire for the track, inner and outer. Then slightly bend the inner ring at the top towards the down side where the ball starts to fall  back. 3D printing is also an option once measurements are nailed down.


Hi DTB. I am envious of your drawing skills. The original track is 330mm long and the diameter of the curve is 150mm.

I do not know if the circular design would work, I am not saying it would not, but you are asking the ball to leave at the strongest point of attraction. I think it could be a sticky point. You could however possibly have the exit dissect the circle before the ball reaches the end of your magnetic ramp. Think slightly bigger than semi circle.

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2013, 02:14:50 PM »
Elecar this is very exciting. By using only one side of a smot you left the other side
open for the escape. I have always believed that permanent magnets can do work because
of 1. Finsrud's device and 2. my pendulum that swings higher than its dropped point and
3. now your modified smot......

Thank you very much....
I will stick one together tomorrow I hope.
my pendulum drops from 2 oclock and travels to noon here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74

Norman

Hi Norman, I have watched your video before, and it is interesting. I believe magnets can do work also, I think my video shows that the ball is pulled up the ramp regardless of its release point. Where is that gain coming from ?
I guess we both know the naysayers are going to say "from my hand"

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2013, 02:14:50 PM »
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Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2013, 02:19:31 PM »
I think there's more to it than that, just like a steel ball will always pull to the edge of a magnet because there is less attraction in the center.
So the main acceleration is pulling into the magnet and there is less attraction in the center of the ramp, but can be controlled by the magnets angle to the track.
 
The idea is to gain moving into the ramp and exit just after the peak of the gain and where there is less attraction.
May be?

Hi Lumen, Pretty much in a nut shell, you have to position the magnets in such a way that they draw the ball up the ramp but fall short of the end. There has to be the point where gravity takes over from magnetism and you need to use that gravity to your advantage whilst the ball is still high enough to be returned to the start.

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2013, 02:46:29 PM »
elecar:

Wow!  I have read this topic and seen your video.  I think what you have devised is brilliant Sir.  I have no problem taking you at your word, even though we here on OU.com have been burned before as we all know.

I believe everyone should read your first post and respect your position.  You spelled out what you would, and would not reveal.  I accept this.

Once your idea is fully understood, selecting the materials for easier building for the experimenters is where the folks here can contribute.  We all have to work with the tools we have and the materials we can easily get.  What a great job you have done using that metal bracket.  I wish you much success and I appreciate your willing to share with us on here as much as you are able. 

If I were in your position, it would be killing me to not be able to do so.  Very well done Sir.

Bill

HI Pirate, I did consider not posting anything at all yet, but I have a patent pending and I am having exchanges with a toy manufacture who is interested. There are parts of the patent that I do not wish to disclose in full as it would not be right in light of the talks I am having. It really is that simple.

I believe there are many ways of doing it using any number of materials I have a number of my own designs drawn up. I also believe the simple tests that I put together in the video absolutely show that it is for real. Get the ramp right and get the junction right and you will have built a self looping "SMOT" using the principles I have shared.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2013, 02:46:29 PM »
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Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2013, 04:18:21 PM »
  Your use of ceramic magnets is most interesting.  I have been reading scientific papers regarding the MOMENTUM carried by the magnetic field itself, and how non-conducting magnets may offer a chance to explore this effect. 

   I also agree that the "EXIT" is critically important.  Can you give us sometime more detail about how you achieve the exit for the ball, so that it proceeds back downward, away from the magnets?  That would be needed for a replication I think.

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2013, 05:23:16 PM »
Hi Jouleseeker, I could not get it to work with the neos, I could get them to pull the ball up the ramp and the to get the ball to reverse. But I could not get the ball to move away from the magnetic field. The C8 magnets have worked best.

You are correct the exit is absolutely critical, in that the ball must be able to roll freely and at the shallowest angle possible and there must be NO resistance or the ball will hang up, I only have a cheap plastic protractor and checking mine it is 12-14 degrees. My track is pretty much like that shown in reply #3 on page one of this thread.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2013, 05:23:16 PM »
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Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2013, 05:52:07 PM »
Hi DTB,  I hope you do not mind me using your drawing, hopefully the alteration is self explanatory, the area indicated by the red ball would need to have a greater influence from gravity than that of the magnets. I have no idea if it would work just thinking out loud.


 

Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2013, 06:01:02 PM »
Hi Jouleseeker, I have not tried this, but it is one of my designs. the track is constructed of aluminum channel, a NON magnetic "gate" is placed at the junction. It would need to be super light and as friction free as possible. The orange dot represents the hinge. The red dot represents a very small ferromagnetic fixture which would allow the gate to be "pulled shut" by the attraction to the  magnets on the side of the ramp. Which leaves only one way for the reversing ball to travel.

Again I have not tried it, its just one design idea.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2013, 06:01:02 PM »
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Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2013, 06:18:37 PM »
Hi Jouleseeker, I could not get it to work with the neos, I could get them to pull the ball up the ramp and the to get the ball to reverse. But I could not get the ball to move away from the magnetic field. The C8 magnets have worked best.

Yes!  and just a quick follow-up, in your self-looping prototype, the C8 magnets do allow the "the ball to move away from the magnetic field" and move back down the ramp (right-hand ramp, i.e., the ramp without magnets nearby) -- is that correct? this is crucial. 

There must be no input from the outside by any prosaic force such as a finger-touch or moving a magnet or vibration or anything like that.  (No such input, right?)

PS - note- I'll be driving a friend right away to a VA hospital, gone all afternoon.



Offline elecar

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2013, 06:26:24 PM »
Yes!  and just a quick follow-up, in your self-looping prototype, the C8 magnets do allow the "the ball to move away from the magnetic field" and move back down the ramp (right-hand ramp, i.e., the ramp without magnets nearby) -- is that correct? this is crucial. 

There must be no input from the outside by any prosaic force such as a finger-touch or moving a magnet or vibration or anything like that.  (No such input, right?)

PS - note- I'll be driving a friend right away to a VA hospital, gone all afternoon.

There are no tricks employed, the ball exits on the "down ramp" without any outside influence. Only magnets gravity, and track design are the driving forces.


I hope your friend is ok.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2013, 06:26:24 PM »
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Offline jdsanders

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2013, 09:34:01 PM »
There are no tricks employed, the ball exits on the "down ramp" without any outside influence. Only magnets gravity, and track design are the driving forces.


Hello elecar,

THANKS for sharing your design, photos and video!  This is SUPER exciting!  You have been around OU for a while, so this probably goes without mentioning, but please remember to steel yourself for the inevitable troll attacks. You're doing a right and good thing -- don't let any verbal attacks / insinuations / hostile questions deter you.  We've seen so many productive experimenters run off by over-aggressive, badgering skeptics.  >:(

Regards,
-Joel D. Sanders

Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2013, 12:27:39 AM »
There are no tricks employed, the ball exits on the "down ramp" without any outside influence. Only magnets gravity, and track design are the driving forces.


I hope your friend is ok.

Thanks for the re-affirmation, and WOW!
   Again I think the non-conducting ceramic magnets are a key here.
Yes, my friend is fine - and I just drove him back from the Kansas City hospital.

Offline maw2432

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2013, 02:01:39 AM »


Hi Bill,
          I have to be honest I have never timed the runs, I can tell you that I did leave one test running whilst we went shopping and returned over 3 hours later and it was still running. I knew I would run into trouble when I claimed I would not be showing my design for a while, of course it appears like a dodge and I accept that. But the simple truth is I am talking with a toy manufacture who is interested in the design, and for that reason I am holding off disclosing my prototype. I am however not keeping the working details away from anyone. And a self build should be reasonably easy for anyone with some simple DIY skills and a bit of spare time on their hands.
If you just want to see my model running you should visit the thread in the future when I will post a video, I promised on another thread I would do that and I will post that video in the near future.
Thank you Elecar for the photos and video of your test build.  Nice work. 
The junction must have taken some tries to get right.   
I invision something like a rubber bumper, like one you find on an older mechanical pinball machine.   If there is enough momentum the ball should bounce off at the angle that is setup and down the ramp??
Bill
 
 

Offline lumen

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Re: Building a self looping "SMOT"
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2013, 04:24:35 PM »
@elecar
 
I think you really started some gears turning in this thread.
If what you show is true, then there are many ways to improve this to the point of real output energy.
 

 

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