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Author Topic: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.  (Read 289891 times)

synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #360 on: December 25, 2013, 06:22:48 PM »
@Conradelektro,

Quote from Conradelektro:

"I will try to measure the "increased magnetic fieldstrength" of a bifilar winding over a soft iron core (nail) and over a Ferrite core (I have some 10 mm diameter Ferrite rods). I think I have all the materials needed and will do it more or less like in the video".


You may as well forget about even trying this experiment if you're unwilling to adhere strictly to the test spefications. I made that nail experiment video and got it to work. I'm all for testing. There were other failed tests made with "zinc screws" for magnet cores. It's important that one follow the instructions to get the results. Tesla-Coil-Builder calls specifically for two 16 penny soft iron nails, not just any kind of iron nails you may find lying around in your junk drawer! This may take a trip to the hardware store, and you should test the nails with a magnet to make sure they're the proper material. He says nothing anywhere about using 10 mm diameter Ferrite rods for coil cores. You would need a complex formula to determine the amount of wire to wrap them with!

I built and tested dozens of these Tesla bifilar coils. I do more then just throw words around. I achieved the overunity results I'm claiming. The nail test alone is two times overunity. Good luck, and Merry Christmas!

synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #361 on: December 25, 2013, 10:50:20 PM »
@Conradelektro,


I feel the experiment on increased magnetic field strength per watt should be conducted with the coreless spiral pancake as patented by Tesla. Two coils of the same diameter, one single wire and the other serial bifilar. Your signal generator and micro scale would give the test a high degree of scientific validity. I suggest measuring iron filings by weight.


The problem of substituting a high permeability core of low remanence for the soft iron core is very complex, and out of order for a coil that was patented as a flat spiral pancake with no core in the first place. Comparing the different types of pancakes would be a very worthwhile undertaking, and put this issue to rest once and for all.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 01:45:34 AM by synchro1 »

synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #362 on: December 26, 2013, 01:38:59 AM »
Here's a couple of snapshots: 


On the top, the materials for the Cook battery: Conduit, 16 and 32 gauge wire and welding rod cores.

Next, one of the 4 coupled 1/2" X 1" diametric tube magnets stacked for the magnet core and their bifilar output coil.

conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #363 on: December 26, 2013, 11:28:49 AM »
@synchro1: in one of your posts you cited  this page http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoil.htm . On the bottom of the page one finds a update http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookUpDate.htm which says:

Oct 2001 -
 - I can NOT make this device work. That does not mean that it never worked.
 - The device, AS I BUILT IT, does not work.
 - I can not say whether it might work if built to different dimensions or specifications.

In which way do you try to overcome the shortcomings of the 2001 Cook Coil design?

Are the four "tube magnets" on the photo axially or diametrically magnetized? If they are diametrically magnetized you should rather build a magnet spinner to prove the OU effect of the "synchro coil".

Greetings, Conrad

conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #364 on: December 26, 2013, 01:49:03 PM »
@Conradelektro,


I feel the experiment on increased magnetic field strength per watt should be conducted with the coreless spiral pancake as patented by Tesla. Two coils of the same diameter, one single wire and the other serial bifilar. Your signal generator and micro scale would give the test a high degree of scientific validity. I suggest measuring iron filings by weight.


The problem of substituting a high permeability core of low remanence for the soft iron core is very complex, and out of order for a coil that was patented as a flat spiral pancake with no core in the first place. Comparing the different types of pancakes would be a very worthwhile undertaking, and put this issue to rest once and for all.

Good idea to try flat pancake coils without core (one mono-filar the other bifilar), I want them anyway for tests with the magnet spinner.

I was thinking about the "nail core", which introduces many unknown factors, e.g. the iron used for manufacturing the nails. The core-less pancake coils are much more well defined.

Winding the pancake coils between two sheets of thin plexi glass should be simple. The plexi glass should not influence the magnetic field much?

Greetings, Conrad

synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #365 on: December 26, 2013, 02:57:09 PM »
@Conradelektro,

                        Those are diametric magnets in the picture above. After you wind your diametric magnets for the "Synchro Coil" try connecting a fast switching Shottky diode in series between the leads of the bifilar coil and your 10uF capacitor. Place multi meter electrodes on the capacitor poles, and you'll will find that the diametric magnet core coil actually begins to generate power spontaneously, up to a ceiling charge, then stops. This is what Cook maintains his battery does.

                         Cook requires that the ferrite cores be "Charged". One apparently has to start it by running current from a battery backwards through the coils to magnetize the cores. Rather then deal with this problem, I just substituted those powerful diametric neodymium's to run tests on, and voila, I got results!  I discovered that the Tesla series bifilar solenoid will generate spontaneous power while standing still with a stack of diametric ring magnets positioned in the core. You will be able to measure this overunity effect for yourself from your finished "Synchro Coil". Prepare to be amazed!    

I made a video demonstrating this effect with a quadfilar wired like the Cook battery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XMfCpUzq_g

P.S. Please do not attempt to replicate this Intercom coil experiment. Several people tried and failed and I
grew exasperated trying to describe how I had it wired. I am currently confused.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 07:38:42 PM by synchro1 »

conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #366 on: December 27, 2013, 01:30:24 PM »
..........
You probably saw where I said that magnets don't affect coils because they don't produce changing magnetic fields.  So if Conrad does some tests he could check for that.
..........
So the logical thing to do is to compare it with an air core coil and a coil with a normal unmagnetized ferromagnetic core.  If you don't have a ferromagnetic core you can use nails of course.
..........
So before even making the measurements the presumption is that the possible output power will increase as you go from air core to the synchro core to the regular ferromagnetic core.
...........
MileHigh
........
For starters, the basic idea is just to use a single resistor and not use an FWBR at all.  Then you simply look at the waveform on your scope and if your scope can measure true RMS voltage then you get an output power readout.  Or you can use a true-RMS multimeter.
........
If you measure the resistance of your coil, and then use the same resistance value for the load resistor, then you will dissipate the maximum power in the load.  Note that the same amount of resistive power is being burned off in the coil itself.  So the "true" power output is arguably the coil resistive power plus the load resistor power.  When you measure one you know the value of the other.
........
This is actually the heart of your experiment:  You try air core, synchro core, and regular core for different values of load resistor.  You make your input power measurement going to the pulse motor and your output power measurement going into the load resistor or the (load resistor + the coil resistance) and compare.
........
You know that with a regular ferromagnetic core and using a load resistor that has the same resistance as your coil resistance, you should be extracting the maximum power from the spinning rotor.
........
Understanding the concept of impedance matching is of prime importance for understanding electronic and mechanical and other types of circuits.
........
So this is a study of different pickup coil configurations and how they output power into different values of load resistor.
.............
MileHigh

@MileHigh: Thank you for taking the time to explain a good measurement technique. This helps a lot and I will try to do the measurement exactly as you suggest.

My scope should be able to measure true RMS over the load resistor.

I just wonder whether the bifilar coil will have a different DC resistance with an air core, a Ferrite core and a magnet stack core? In any case the coil will have a rather low DC resistance around a few Ohm (because I will only wind about 500 to 1000 turns of wire on that coil)? Does the type of core have an influence on direct current going through the coil? Probably a silly question.

It looks like I can do some work in my lab on the 29th and 30th of December.

Greetings, Conrad

MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #367 on: December 27, 2013, 03:22:38 PM »
Conrad:

If you make a regular coil with say 500 turns, then using the same wire you can make a series bifilar coil that is 250 turns + 250 turns.  So you have two coils with the same physical dimensions and the same total number of turns.  The wire length will be almost the same so they will have almost the same DC resistance.  The coils will measure the same DC resistance independent of what material you put in the core or if it is an air core.

When you work with the two coil configurations, I am assuming that you will test them as pick-up coils and try different load resistors and cores, etc.  Like I stated before, you can expect that you will not find any significant differences between the regular coil and the series bifilar coil when you do these types of comparative tests.

You can look at the core as an energy storing device.  The core stores magnetic energy that is proportional to its relative permeability.  So we know the relative permeability of air is one.  A regular ferromagnetic core might have a relative permeability of 800.  The magnet stack core is anybody's guess.  I will take a guess that it will be about five.

The more energy that can be stored in the core the higher the measured inductance of the coil + core combination.  It's easy to do pulse experiments where you measure the amount of energy that can be stored in the coil + core combination at different current levels.  When you make those energy measurements you are also measuring the inductance.  So you can use this measurement technique as a way of double-checking what a digital inductance meter measures.

Good luck on your experiments.

MileHigh

synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #368 on: December 27, 2013, 08:36:49 PM »
Conrad:

If you make a regular coil with say 500 turns, then using the same wire you can make a series bifilar coil that is 250 turns + 250 turns.  So you have two coils with the same physical dimensions and the same total number of turns.  The wire length will be almost the same so they will have almost the same DC resistance.  The coils will measure the same DC resistance independent of what material you put in the core or if it is an air core.

When you work with the two coil configurations, I am assuming that you will test them as pick-up coils and try different load resistors and cores, etc.  Like I stated before, you can expect that you will not find any significant differences between the regular coil and the series bifilar coil when you do these types of comparative tests.

You can look at the core as an energy storing device.  The core stores magnetic energy that is proportional to its relative permeability.  So we know the relative permeability of air is one.  A regular ferromagnetic core might have a relative permeability of 800.  The magnet stack core is anybody's guess.  I will take a guess that it will be about five.

The more energy that can be stored in the core the higher the measured inductance of the coil + core combination.  It's easy to do pulse experiments where you measure the amount of energy that can be stored in the coil + core combination at different current levels.  When you make those energy measurements you are also measuring the inductance.  So you can use this measurement technique as a way of double-checking what a digital inductance meter measures.

Good luck on your experiments.

MileHigh

@Milehigh,

The "Synchro Coil" is a "Satellite Coil" not a pickup coil, and does not have the same physical dimensions as a pickup coil. You're outlining a completely different test from the one we started out with. What are you trying to pull here? The test you devised here is to compare a single wire pickup coil to a series bifilar pickup coil of identical dimensions! This is completely irelevent to the test of the magnet core coil! The magnet core coil is designed to generate power from within, not from the spinning rotor. Try and remain relevant while contributing to this thread.

conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #369 on: December 27, 2013, 10:10:28 PM »
@Milehigh,

The "Synchro Coil" is not a pickup coil, and does not have the same physical dimensions as a pickup coil. You're outlining a completely different test from the one we started out with. What are you trying to pull here? The test you devised here is to compare a single wire pickup coil to a series bifilar pickup coil of identical dimensions! This is completely irelevent to the test of the magnet core coil! The magnet core coil is designed to generate power from within, not from the spinning rotor. Try and remain relevant while contributing to this thread.

I am very grateful for MileHigh's contribution which is highly relevant for the test of the "synchro coil".

If the "synchro coil" shows any unexpected behavior it will be even better visible with the measurement method (only a resistor which matches the DC resistance of the coil) proposed by MileHigh because one would get the most energy out of it.

I will also make a test with a full bridge rectifier and a capacitor but first all parameters have to be established (DC resistance of the coil; the inductance of the coil with different cores; true RMS Voltage over a matched resistor with different cores at different distances of the coil from the rotor; slowing down of the rotor when the coil, shortened over the matched resistor, is placed at different distances from the rotor).

Synchro1, you should not piss off people like MileHigh who try to help by proposing a meaningful test procedure. Only meaningful and well executed tests can show the truth behind interesting observations.

The aim is to measure any unexpected behavior of the "series bifilar magnet core synchro coil". A big part of it is to compare the behavior of the bifilar wound coil with different cores (air core, Ferrite core and "tube magnet core"). And then one has to wind a similar coil with just one wire to establish any possible differences. That will give some insight.

According to Synchro1's opinion the "synchro coil" should "generate power from within, not from the spinning rotor". And I will try to shed light on that with my tests. But first all parameters have to be established as MileHigh says. Otherwise we just fool around. We can only proceed from the known towards the unknown in an orderly way.

Greetings, Conrad

synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #370 on: December 27, 2013, 10:16:24 PM »
@Conradelektro,

Milehigh is nothing more then a "Gadfly"! He's taking the thread off on another tangent. Now you have an additional nine coils to wrap and test. Good luck.

MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #371 on: December 27, 2013, 10:16:49 PM »
Suynchro1:

Conrad said the following:

Quote
Thank you for taking an interest and I appreciate very much all advice you are willing to give.

In this thread testing the synchro coil as a pick-up coil became an active subject.  Then you got into your series bifilar discussion with a whole bunch of unsubstantiated claims.  Happily Conrad will be doing some testing and at least he stated that he will pursue trying different cores and load resistors like I suggested.  If you have an inquiring and scientific mind, this is a golden opportunity to test the series bifilar coil also as a pick-up coil and compare it to an equivalent regular coil.  That is at Conrad's discretion.

Quote
The magnet core coil is designed to generate power from within, not from the spinning rotor.

That's another unsubstantiated claim and science says that will not happen.  It's up to Conrad if he wants to run any tests along those lines.  I hope he does do some tests and that he does some of the tests that you are suggesting.  (As long as the tests that you are suggesting make sense.)  Then you can comment on the results - your claims vs. what Conrad sees on the bench.

Quoting you:

Quote
I feel the experiment on increased magnetic field strength per watt should be conducted with the coreless spiral pancake as patented by Tesla.

The above statement does not make any sense.  Notice that nobody reading the thread tried to correct you?  How can you (as in forum members) progress if you don't try to correct each other and get yourselves collectively up the learning curve?  I will leave it to you to figure out what's wrong with your statement or you and your peers on the forum together to try to figure out what is wrong with the statement.  If nobody discusses it then nobody wins!

MileHigh

conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #372 on: December 27, 2013, 10:31:24 PM »
@Conradelektro,

Milehigh is nothing more then a "Gadfly"! He's taking the thread off on another tangent. Now you have    nine coils to wrap and test. Good luck.

I do not have to wind nine coils, just two coils, a bifilar and a monofilar (with the same length of wire and the same size), because I can remove or change the core (the "stack of magnets" and the "Ferrite core" which have the same 10 mm diameter).

I am pretty sure that name calling leads nowhere. People tell me that I am very patient, but I have limits too.

Greetings, Conrad

synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #373 on: December 27, 2013, 10:55:06 PM »
@Conradelectro,


You have no idea what MH put us through on the "Electromagnet" thread. His current tests are merely designed to shore up his mistaken point of view about the invalidity of Tesla's bifilar coil. Solenoid pickup coils like the ones he's suggested you test have an ideal width to length ratio that is far different from the diminished face and length of the "Synchro satellite Coil". 


You offered to test the four bifilar configurations on the "Synchro bobbin" and a monifilar for five plus two spiral pancakes for magnetic strength, for seven , now Milehigh has two additional pickup coils planned with pickup face to length ratios that are different from the low face magnet core. Take a closer look at what he's asking of you.

conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #374 on: December 27, 2013, 11:12:17 PM »
@Conradelectro,
You offered to test the four bifilar configurations on the "Synchro bobbin" and a monifilar for five plus two spiral pancakes for magnetic strength, for seven , now Milehigh has two additional pickup coils planned with pickup face to length ratios that are different from the low face magnet core. Take a closer look at what he's asking of you.

Synchro1, I will start testing and we will see where it leads us. Let's stay calm. I hate a war of words. We need a war of measurements and a war of real tests.

My first test will be with the "low face magnet core".

Greetings, Conrad