There are ways to cheat Lenz Drag.

I also built a new vertical model with a 230 mm long needle as an axis. I did not use any magnets for the bearings just a brass bolt with a little hole as the ground bearing and a hole in a plexiglas plate as a top bearing. See the attached photo. Power draw and spin rate is only a bit worse than with the new horizontal model (about 30mW 1500 rpm to 70 mW 2200 rpm).

When I used a magnet to hold the axis on the top end I run into trouble. The steel needle was magnetised by the big magnet and rattled because the diametric magnetisation of the needle was interfering with the top magnet. Therefore I gave up the magnet bearings for the vertical model. And it is not much worse (concerning friction) and very stable.

I will now make the drive circuit a bit better and then solder two circuits which go on the two models (one for the horizontal and one for the vertical spinner).

The two models have fairly big magnets spinning which should allow to test different generator coils. There is also ample room to place a generator coil or even two.

While I work on my drive circuit, I would be very much interested in hearing suggestions for coils which are supposed to have less Lenz drag than ordinary coils. I will give them a try without prejudice. Because the drive power is feeble, one should see immediately the Lenz drag. I tested briefly with an ordinary coil and the drag was terrible (as one expects).

Of course you should not disclose your Lenz-less coil in case you plan a patent or some other self styling; me or some sneaky reader might steel your idea and become very rich.

Greetings, Conrad

@Conradelektro,

Take a diametric magnet and hold the end up to the spinning rotor. Measure the RPM. A speed up will motivate you to build a series bifilar wrapped, spool type output coil, with a core length and diameter the size of two diametric tubes attached end to end. I looped back to source with this kind of magnet core output coil and charged the run battery forcefully. Tape the ends of the coil. They won't attract while spinning, but they will collide when stopped.   

@synchro1:

Thank you for the suggestion, I will try. But I do not fully understand your coil proposal. Would it be too much to ask you for a drawing, could be a photo of a hand drawing?

By "diametric tubes" you probably meant "two diametrically magnetised disk magnets", or did you mean "two diametrically magnetised ring magnets".

Sorry to ask such dumb questions.

I held a "diametrically magnetised ring magnet" near the spining magnet (in serveral orientations and distances), it always decreased the spin. Then I attached two such magnets together and the result was the same. But I might have done it the wrong way.

Greetings, Conrad

@synchro1:  Thank you for clarifying further.

I attach a drawing which outlines the experiment I did just now. If you stick two "diametrically magnetised ring magnets" together you get the magnetisation regions (N and S) as I tried to indicate on the drawing, just to check that we agree on that.

I can now easily wind  a bifilar coil around this "tube magnet" (and connect the two wires in series), but it will take a few days because I am working on the drive circuit right now.

I will build the coil in such a way that one can insert two ring magnets, only one ring magnet or none. The length of the coil (axially) will be equal to the length (axially) of the tube magnet (two diametrically magnetised ring magnets stuck together). Is that right? How many turns of wire (a lot or rather a modest amount)?

Concerning the speed up: on the photo you see how I held the "tube magnet". Is this the right way to place it?  At a smaller distance it slows the spin down, farther away it does not change the speed.

I observed an increase of a rattle at a certain distance which I can also feel in my fingers holding the "tube magnet". My guess is that in certain mechanical situations a rattle can increase the spin (by decreasing the friction in the bearings). It did not happen with my contraption but it could have been the case in your test setup. This is of course just a guess, I do not doubt your observations, I am only reporting my little test. I measured the speed with my oscilloscope (in real time).

I am interested in this type of coil because I could feel this "rattle" in my fingers (which means "some strong force"), but the rotor did not slow down (the tub magnet has to be at a certain distance from the spinning magnet). That is interestingly strange. May be this "vibrating magnetic field" induces more current into the bifilar winding than one would expect. We will see, thank you for disclosing your observations I will try to replicate.

Greetings, Conrad

@Conradelektro,


Quote from Conradelectro:


"I am interested in this type of coil because I could feel this "rattle" in my fingers (which means "some strong force"), but the rotor did not slow down (the tub magnet has to be at a certain distance from the spinning magnet). That is interestingly strange. May be this "vibrating magnetic field" induces more current into the bifilar winding than one would expect. We will see, thank you for disclosing your observations I will try to replicate".

You're right on target! That "rattle effect" generates a tremendous amount of current. I speculate along with you that the magnetic field is vibrating at a much higher frequency then the sensory vibration. You just struck the mother load. Congratulations!

1) Do we agree on the N-S-orientation of the poles in a "tube magnet" consisting of two diametrically magnetised ring magnets?

2) Is my description of the coil right?

3) Do I hold the tube magnet in the right position (approximately, the distance has to be adjusted)?

Please see my last post and photo. Just to check that I understood correctly.

Greetings, Conrad

@Conradelektro,


Everything's perfect so far! That vibration tells me you found the sweet spot. Find a way to secure the output coil right there, and allow for some adjustment; Also, a high frequency Shottky diode in series with a high voltage capacitor is an even better way to rectify and store the high voltage output from the 32 gauge output coil magnet wire. You have no idea how long it's taken me to get someone to try and replicate this effect.                         

@synchro1: I will try to replicate. I am a slow builder, please be patient and Christmas is coming up.

But be aware that I also feel this "rattling" when holding an ordinary coil with iron core at about the same position. See the attached photo of such ordinary coils (with quite a lot of turns of thin wire and a soft iron core).

I do not know what that means, but this rattling seems to be nothing special by itself. The rattling is not that significant with a coreless coil (the same coreless coil I use as drive and trigger coil), but a coreless coil does not produce much current.

I also know from experience that the rattling becomes even stronger when shorting the generator coil. (But I have not done that test yet with this setup.)

One can speculate that a "tube magnet" inside a bifilar coil does something special and i will try to test that. It seems to be not that difficult and one does not need special materials. So, why not.

The flat pancake type coils shown by Skycollection seem to be much harder to build, so I delay them in favour of your idea.

I do not mind if an idea leads to nowhere, at least we will learn something from the tests.

I have high frequency diodes (UF4007, UF5408, 1N5711, BAT42, RB160L), also high Voltage capacitors, and I only need to rectify a few mA because I only feed a few mA into the drive circuit. The whole point of my "low power drive circuit" is to reduce the power which has to be recovered from a generator coil in order to show OU (if it is indeed possible).

If you look at the photos of my models you see that all my coils are mounted on aluminium L-brackets with slits and can be adjusted lengthwise (distance from spinning magnet) and in height. All bolts for fixing something to the wooden base plate are aluminium or brass. The last two models (the long horizontal and the high vertical) are the culmination of at least 10 magnet spinner attempts. All earlier models (which I posted all somewhere in this forum) have much more flaws than these two last ones. And the drive circuit should also be the lowest power I ever achieved with quite big spinning magnets. So much for bragging.

Greetings, Conrad

@Conradelektro,

Coupling more tubes, say eight or ten would vibrate the rotor and cause an increase in acceleration.

I have ten of the diametrically magnetised ring magnets I used and showed on the photo above.

Should I make a longer coil with e.g. 5 or 6 ring magnets stuck together (a long tube) as the core?

They will not fit into my relays coils, but I can wind such a coil (bifilar)?

I just held 6 diametrically magnetised ring magnets (stuck together) near the spinning magnet. They also rattle (all of them) and I have to stay a bit further away from the spinning magnet than with only two ring magnets between my fingers (in order not to slow the spinning magnet down).

Since the ring magnets have a diameter of 10 mm and a heigth of 5 mm, the six ring magnets stuck together would make a 30 mm long "magnet tube core" with a diameter of 10 mm. Would that be better than a 10 mm long "magnet tube core" (only two ring magnets)?

Sorry to nail you with so many questions, but I want to get it right. There is no sense in winding the wrong coil.

I can make the coil like Igor's (so that one can slide the magnets in and out)?

Greetings, Conrad

@Conradelektro,

Thanks for the Blue Nobel Badge "Strangeness observed award".

Six years ago I constructed a Cook battery with eight powerful 1/2" x 1" diametric tubes inside an electrical conduit and wrapped first with a 32 gauge magnet wire primary then a thick plastic insulated 16 gauge household wire secondary connected serially to the magnet wire. This was 1/2 of the cook battery. I had this on my work bench while I was spinning a large 2" diametric magnet with a Bedini coil. The large tube collided with the cook battery and stuck there standing still, but I noticed that when I pushed the tube in towards the bearingless spinner while in motion, it repelled it. When I got really close it began to speed up, and shove off! I checked the output and it was substantial. That's how I began to explore the strange effects you observed. You're on the cutting edge with the experimental research at this time. I only went so far and can tell you only a limited amount. I think running the magnets inside a coil core like Igor's would result in unanticipated results that only experimentation can determine. You're shoving the torch of learning into the darkness for us at this time. I'm learning from you. Very exciting, Keep it up!

Wrapping the entire stack of coupled tubes should multiply the output exponentially. There's a satellite effect in play that's potentially infinite in extent. Look at the number of spinners JonnyDavro sets into motion with no additional draw on the power coil input, from 2 AA's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuVtKYfSDI8

The field of the coupled stack is moving cost free from the quantum like the satellite spinners. The field seesaws instead of rotating. The output doesn't come directly from the prime mover, but from the field fluctuation in the satellite stack. Cover the magnets with a few wraps of dielectric tape before winding. Once the coil's wrapped around the magnets a multi meter can help optimally position it. This is one way we get to cheat "Lenz Drag"!