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Author Topic: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.  (Read 221580 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2013, 11:22:55 PM »
@TK,


       You could cut a narrow slit through a piece of paper and tape it to the LED.

ROFL!!!

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2013, 11:22:55 PM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2013, 01:43:45 AM »
TK:

I watched your clip and I think the strobing with the LED actually works pretty well.  I still think that with the LED illuminating a white dot from behind so the reflected light bouncing off the dot is directed at your eyes the effect will be good enough to get the job done.  You could indeed pulse the light on the start and end of the coil pulse on every fourth tick which will add complexity but it is still doable.  This was mentioned primarily for people without scopes to give them a home brew "rotary scope" for their pulse motors.  All part of the "do it on the cheap" theme.  When you have a real scope, all of the start and stop angle information is right there on your scope display.

Anyway, you are the builder so do your thing!  You have already demonstrated the main bells and whistles.  In your first working motor clip the pickup coil was fixed and the drive coil was moveable.  So moving the drive coil angular position in this case would allow you to move the timing of the start of the pulse.  You mentioned that the comparator can cut the pickup coil waveform at whatever potential you dial up with your 10-turn pot to produce the drive pulse for the main coil.  You mentioned the signals seem to be clean and sharp.  So it's pretty much done and it's all gravy from this point on.

The nice stable output from the comparator is nice in the sense that you can use the rising edge or the falling edge to trigger your scope and look at any signal you want if you want to try to optimize the pulse motor.

MileHigh

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2013, 01:44:05 AM »
Monostable 555 takes input pulses and shortens them.... completes strobe part of circuit.



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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2013, 01:44:05 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2013, 01:47:20 AM »
TK:

If I could make just one clip request it would be this:  Trigger on the pickup coil waveform and display the comparator output on the other channel and play with the 10-turn pot.  That will show the "voltage threshold slicing" in a very dramatic fashion and might blow some minds.

MileHigh

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 02:35:59 AM »
@TK,


       Unquestionably the highest state of the art in pulse motor circuitry to date. Congratulations on perfecting duty cycle control so elegantly. The speed up coupled with increased back power out defies customary logic. I wonder if a loop back to source would produce a self runner? The 250 volt back spikes are awesome! I bet JLN will bench test a replication.

I wouldn't go that far... I think Farmhand's circuits are more sophisticated and potentially useful. And let's not forget that this was MileHigh's original idea, I am just running with it and making it practical. I think this method has a lot going for it and I have already thought up some great linear and pendulum kinds of things that would make good use of the circuitry.

I really don't think that the spikes could be collected and looped back to make it run itself. But for other things, yes. Recirculating them might slow the rundown or even make it accelerate but it will always run out of energy and stop. I'd love to be proved wrong about this, and I'm trying to do it myself....

Yes, I'm a bit surprised by the spikes too, and without cores too. I'll start doing collection experiments in a couple of days.

Heh... If Jean-Louis does it, it will look nice, run nice and he might even make it be OU.... he has good luck that way.
 ;D

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 02:35:59 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2013, 02:59:48 AM »
TK:

If I could make just one clip request it would be this:  Trigger on the pickup coil waveform and display the comparator output on the other channel and play with the 10-turn pot.  That will show the "voltage threshold slicing" in a very dramatic fashion and might blow some minds.

MileHigh

OK, It's coming up in the next video which is processing right now. Go have a beverage, walk the dog, it will probably be ready by then. I'm not sure if it shows what you think it will but it certainly shows how varying the pot setting changes the points on the slope of the sense signal where the mosfet turns on and off.

You know, at this point I still don't know if the thing is working in attraction or repulsion mode! I guess I had better check.

ETA: Attraction mode. I'll have to try repulsion mode too.

 http://youtu.be/oDQi4nV-WnE


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 04:51:40 AM »
TK:

Thanks for that.... Can you play Free Bird now?  lol

It looks like your tuning has improved yet again, the rotor seemed to be really moving.  The strobe effect also looked great.  There is some peach fuzzyish noise but that could be eliminated.

You can see how you have complete control over the main coil pulse firing a.k.a. pulse triggering.  It's much better than just playing with the value of a base resistor.  Also, the pick-up coil is a "pure EMF" device now and has no load on it at all.  It does not have to push current through the base of a NPN transistor anymore, the op-amp would take care of that if you had a transistor-based design.

When you look at the short-lived "Bedini 10-coiler" I think it was made by creating one humungous 20-watt base input resistor that drove all 10 transistors.  There was a huge load on the pickup coil.  That's about as low tech as you can get and if the transistors didn't match then you would have had problems.

You now have the technology, faster, stronger, the world's first op-ampatronic pulse motor.

MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 04:51:40 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2013, 05:03:29 AM »
Just as a frame of reference for Old School, this is a US Navy clip about the positioning systems for the big guns on battleships:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8aH-M3PzM0

It's a film that has been cut into 6-minute slices so you can watch the rest if you are interested.  What's amazing is that the the big guns were controlled by a team of men putting data into a huge mechanical analog computer.  All of the computing was done in real time using gears and special cams that had mathematical functions built into the physical shape of the cams.   Besically a giant analog mechanical computer to land shells on targets and blow them to smithereens.

MileHigh

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2013, 08:04:43 AM »
Just as a frame of reference for Old School, this is a US Navy clip about the positioning systems for the big guns on battleships:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8aH-M3PzM0

It's a film that has been cut into 6-minute slices so you can watch the rest if you are interested.  What's amazing is that the the big guns were controlled by a team of men putting data into a huge mechanical analog computer.  All of the computing was done in real time using gears and special cams that had mathematical functions built into the physical shape of the cams.   Besically a giant analog mechanical computer to land shells on targets and blow them to smithereens.

MileHigh

MH:

Didn't click the link yet but this sounds a lot like the Babbage engine? 

TK's device using your idea is, of course, brilliant but, I have a concern that when the Nobel Prize folks see a peanut butter lid used in the device, it might scare them.  We need to come up with a better rotor that is more sophisticated...maybe something like silicon or glass or gold?  At the very least it should be painted flat black.  Then, no one would know what the material actually is.

Great suggestion on this one MH.

Bill

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2013, 08:04:43 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2013, 09:15:42 AM »
Unfortunately all my good tooling is still up in Canada. I hope somebody is getting some use out of it.  So I am restricted to what I can gnaw out of raw materials with my front teeth.

The rotor and frame are from the project where I helped a newbie to get his Bedini SGM running. It was an excuse for me to build one, so I did. The rotor is a peanut butter jar lid, but you could also use a mayonnaise jar lid, if you don't like peanut butter.

The axle is a long brass screw, 1/4-20, head cut off, ends pointed by chucking the screw in a drill and turning the screw against the running bench grinder wheel until a nice point is made on the exact axis of the screw.

A couple of wooden washers (scrap from the hole saw) spread the force and allow for some radial adjustment before clamping down on the lid. The magnets are inside the lid, of course: never rely on just adhesives to hold your magnets in a moving assembly, always use structure to do it. I sanded or cut away the inner threads on the plastic lid so the magnets would sit flat, then they are glued in place with 3M-Permatex yellow weatherstrip adhesive, the best glue for this kind of thing. Sticks to everything, remains slightly flexible when cured, and is removable if you really need to remove it. The black is not so good, always use the yellow. Takes 10 or 15 minutes to get a good bond, follow directions, it's a "rubber cement" kind of thing.

The points of the axle go into hardened setscrews for the pivot bearings. Good setscrews have a little conical indentation on the end that is perfect for bearings. End play adjustment is critical with pivot bearings so build in an easy way to do it, and have a stable build. The axle will also grow in length as the temperature warms up and this will reduce end play and may cause binding.

Shades of Steorn's Hot Lights Bearings! They actually told the truth about those jeweled bearings being damaged by decreased end play caused by heating of frame and axle parts.



Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2013, 04:42:05 PM »
@TK,


       Consider Skycollection's approach: Four bar magnets attached to a magnetic axle by the south pole covered with a brass sleeve. Combining his approach with my internal ceramic bearings would create a superior hybrid monopole rotor. He has a set of levitating bearings on the axel ends. Turning the axel along with the rotor slows his top end to about half the 50k I achieve with my internal bearings.


We reduce the inner axel to a stationary 1/8" brass rod. This mounts inside a sturdy PVC coupling to protect against a shattering. Next, the four bar magnets are stuck to a hollow 1/4"magnetic tube, and the race of precision ceramic bearings ride in between. This four magnet monopole rotor would be safe and approach Mach speeds as mine did.


A hole can easily be cut in one side of the coupling for the sensor coil, and another on the other side for the strobe window. The power coil can mount on the top while the pancake output coils rest on the bottem. A compact, safe high speed motor generator. The important advantage is that the RPM's will run over the Lenz delay threshold speed. This design eliminates your "end play" adjustment problem.

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2013, 04:42:05 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2013, 06:13:22 PM »
Yes, it's a good idea, but as I have tried to emphasize I don't have my precision lathe and milling machine here so I cannot work to the precision necessary to make a good highspeed machine. Thanks for the design idea though. I'm always interested in going faster, and I have my doubts about the validity of some of the high speeds that have been cited, as you know, since I've not seen calibrations or concurrently valid measurements, just an assumption that the driving frequency is equal to the rotation rate.


Meanwhile, back to the MHOP:

The neon you see in what I've shown so far is connected between the mosfet Drain and the Source. This clearly puts the 250 volt inductive spike through the neon back to ground. But... the neon also flashes just as well if it is connected to the Drain and the _positive_ pole of the battery. The spike is a lot more "positive" than the positive battery voltage! (This can be seen as having the neon "across the coil" too.) So clearly, again, the spike energy is going back into the battery when the neon fires in this configuration.

This whole setup seems a lot more controllable and "rational" than the standard Bedini setup, and it clearly produces the same kind of sharp inductive spikes and ringdown. And it's easy to put the spike back into the battery thru the neon, or less spectacularly through a diode. And if you don't want or need the Strobe LED and just want an indicator of firing, then you don't need anything downstream of the op-amp: you can just ditch the 4017 decade counter and the 555 pulse narrower. You still have to have a heavy transistor for the switching element but you can now use a mosfet instead of the lossy 2n3055! The IRFP360 that I am using stays cold, the coil stays cool... but the 1/4 inch bolt that I can use for a core heats up a little bit. But the motor actually runs better and makes prettier ringdowns without the core! You still get the huge spikes because of the clean switching of the mosfet. The op-amp acts almost like a mosfet gate driver, in that it delivers a clean pulse with good current, to fill the mosfet's gate capacitance quickly, and it turns off quickly too.



Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2013, 10:21:48 PM »
@Tk,


       Milling a center groove inside a long threadless square nut would allow us to seat one centered ceramic bearing, and eliminate precessional axel torque entirely. This is how I ran my protoype in the end. We can seat the bar magnets into the perpendicular surfaces of the nut then cover them with a sleeve, and use non-magnetic metal.


       We see Magnetman currently selling his alleged overunity generator on his new Free Energy thread right now, despite his sloppy measurments, the Hattem magnetic cogging device shown by MindFreer, and demonstrated again by Igor "Mopozco" show that COP'S>1 may be possible. A magnet core output coil in the base of this kind of generator has the potential to perhaps deliver extra power output.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2013, 11:33:14 PM »
@synchro: yes, being able to do things like milling slots in long nuts etc is nice and I'd be doing it if I had my Sherline tools here... but I don't. I am not into the frustration involved in trying to make something with a drill press and files that will spin stably at hundreds of thousands of RPM.

You should turn up your skepticism level a bit, I think.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2013, 01:53:17 AM »
Note: For the 555 pulse shortener, please change the 0.1 uF tantalum cap to a 1.0 uF tantalum, and make sure to use a 10k ten-turn pot. This makes the strobe LED brighter and gives more adjustability of its pulse width.


Meanwhile... no starting spin necessary:

http://youtu.be/v6cnGK_dlwA

 

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