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Author Topic: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.  (Read 236403 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #375 on: December 27, 2013, 11:47:51 PM »
@Conradelektro,


That's what everyone's fraught with anticipation to finally see. I did have one last question for you; What gauge magnet wire do you plan to wrap the magnet bobbin with?

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #375 on: December 27, 2013, 11:47:51 PM »

Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #376 on: December 28, 2013, 07:27:10 AM »
The "Synchro Coil" is a "flux field generator" not an output coil. The permeability of the magnet core is zero, not above ferrite because it's completely saturated and can not take on any further magnetizem. That's why it's worthless as an output coil core. This coil is not an output coil!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr85aHLmB1g


Output coils will not work from behind potted plants like Lidmotor's Maggie! Remove the tiny neo sphere from inside Maggie's core, and the LED'S go out! That's because Maggie is not an output coil, but a flux field generator just like the synchro coil. 

Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #377 on: December 28, 2013, 07:34:46 AM »



Quoting you:



"QuoteI feel the experiment on increased magnetic field strength per watt should be conducted with the coreless spiral pancake as patented by Tesla".


The above statement does not make any sense.  Notice that nobody reading the thread tried to correct you?  How can you (as in forum members) progress if you don't try to correct each other and get yourselves collectively up the learning curve?  I will leave it to you to figure out what's wrong with your statement or you and your peers on the forum together to try to figure out what is wrong with the statement.  If nobody discusses it then nobody wins!

MileHigh


Milehigh has done himself a great disservice here by insulting everyone on this forum. I am personally  sick and tired of his outrageous pride and arrogance. I will seek to stricken him from commenting on this thread altogether if he doesn't bring his conduct into line.  




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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #377 on: December 28, 2013, 07:34:46 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #378 on: December 28, 2013, 08:08:41 AM »
Synchro1:

If you were a keener you would try to figure out where you were wrong instead of just being a sourpuss.  There is no such thing as "magnetic field strength per watt" and this is forum and a thread where we discuss real electronics.  So now that you know where the problem is, that's half the battle.  You have an opportunity to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps if you want to.

It's time to just sit tight and let Conrad do his thing.  We don't need the histrionics.

MileHigh

Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #379 on: December 28, 2013, 08:16:22 AM »
Skycollection's version:

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #379 on: December 28, 2013, 08:16:22 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #380 on: December 28, 2013, 03:11:31 PM »
@Conradelektro,

That's what everyone's fraught with anticipation to finally see. I did have one last question for you; What gauge magnet wire do you plan to wrap the magnet bobbin with?

The "synchro coil" will be wound with 31 AWG magnet wire (0.22 mm wire diameter). See the attached drawing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge#Tables_of_AWG_wire_sizes

Synchro1, how many layers of wire do you suggest? Is the wire gauge about right?

Each layer will have about 120 to 130 wire turns (60 to 65 bifilar turns).

I can wind 5 or 10 layers, or more. With 10 layers the coil winding will be only 2 to 3 mm thick.

I hope that everybody is patient, the year end holiday season it is bad time of the year for doing experiments. It would be nice if others could do the experiment as well.

I also hope that MileHigh and other experts forgive Synchro1 his bad way of writing and stay in this thread. Expertise is very much needed to see through all the bold claims and to come to an understanding of the actual facts. One needs a thick skin in the OU forums.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #381 on: December 28, 2013, 04:34:06 PM »
@Conradelektro,


                        That wire looks perfect! The coil bobbin is much longer then the ordinary output coil, so you're wraps will be greater then normal judged from thickness. 1000 to 1200 turns is plenty and you can expect some nice hi-voltage.

                         It's important to look at Lidmotor's "Flux field generator" video. He removes the tiny spinning magnet sphere from "Maggie" and the LED'S go out, because at that distance the coil does not receive any cross cutting induction from the magnet rotor, nor does it create any "Lenz drag". Lidmotor then places the output coil closer to the spinning rotor, and demonstrates the "induction effect" at that reduced distance. The "Synchro Coil" operates on the same principle. The power is generated by the "Flux field perturbations" not the rotor induction. The coil optimally is positioned just "outside the induction range".

               Think how utterly inane it would be to suggest testing "Lidmotor's "Maggie" with different core materials other then the neo magnet sphere when the coil is seated too far from the power rotor to be effected by the rotor induction. The same holds true for the "Synchro Coil".

Just look at this malarky from MH:

Synchro's concise explanation,

"The magnet core coil is designed to generate power from within, not from the spinning rotor".

Wise guy know it all response from MH:

"That's another unsubstantiated claim and science says that will not happen".  

This "Synchro magnet core flux field generator coil" is hundreds of times overunity, and has nothing to do with the ordinary induction coil.
                     
                           
                   

                             

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #381 on: December 28, 2013, 04:34:06 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #382 on: December 28, 2013, 08:29:05 PM »
What would happen if you removed the radial magnet stack and replaced it with a ferrite core outside the induction zone? Nothing, the same as an air core, zero output! The flux field is rotating independently of the the magnet rotor outside the induction zone on the quantum plane! Removing the magnet stack and pushing the coil into the induction zone would be the equivalent of using a Rolex watch for a lead sinker.


This magnet core flux field generator coil is what I would call a "Radial Ring Maggie". Axial magnetized rings or tubes will not work anywhere near as well because the fields will not intersect the coil wraps on the perpendicular.

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #383 on: December 29, 2013, 04:24:33 PM »
Unfortunately the "synchro coil" does not show any unexpected effects.

Finally I could test my replication of a "synchro coil".

Coil parameters:

- length 30 mm, core diameter 10 mm, about 500 turns bifilar with 0.22 mm magnet wire (AWG 31)

- DC resistance: about 28 Ohm each wire, wires in series about 56 Ohm (therefore a 59 Ohm shunt was used to measure output with a scope, true RMS)

- air core inductance L = 32 mH (8 mH each wire)

- magnet stack core inductance L = 34 mH (8,6 mH each wire)

The "synchro coil" behaves about in the same way with air core or with "magnet stack core". This is consistent with the observation that its inductance is about the same with air core or with "magnet stack core".

The output of the "synchro coil" is about the same with air core or with "magnet stack core". The output is very low because the rotor has little torque and the coil was placed at a distance to the rotor which does not slow down the rotor much. At this distance the out put is in the order of 400 µW. Further away from the rotor the output drops rapidly and closer to the rotor the rotor stops soon.

Please see the attached photos and drawings.

Synchro1, it seems that you have a lot of misconceptions about this type of coil. I could not see any "neutral zone" around the rotor (spinning magnet) by slowly moving the coil closer to and farer from the rotor. The output of the coil (air core or magnet core) decreases in a regular way when moved away from the rotor (as one would expect).

Greetings, Conrad

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #383 on: December 29, 2013, 04:24:33 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #384 on: December 29, 2013, 04:30:46 PM »
@Conradelektro,


                        Try doubling your rotor strength, or striping half the wire off that coil. You're picking up too much induction! I advised you not to let coil face exceed three eighths of an inch.


                         Try just one wrap of wire for me. Just one layer, and compare the results to give it a fair chance. It's functioning as an induction coil. Keep the principles in mind. The coil is way over wound. Strip the wire down to the very bare minimum and retry it. Don't give up too soon.


                          Take a look at the size speed and magnet strength of Lidmotor's neo sphere spinner with the two smaller neo's attached.  Compare the flux he's generating to the size of his tiny satillite neo inside "Maggie" satellite. Your rotor is very slow and weak compared to his. Your flux field is very deficient compared to his, and completely overwhelmed by the amount of wire you have in close proximity.


                          You would need to spin a two inch diameter magnet at high rpm to deliver a comparative field. Have you ever tried spinning a powerful high speed bearinglees neodymium sphere like Lidmotor's? This is the kind of rotor I got my results with. You're going to have to jetisen nearly all you coil wire to get positive results with that weak and slow a rotor.  
 

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #385 on: December 29, 2013, 04:46:27 PM »
@Conradelektro,


                        Try doubling your rotor strength, or striping half the wire off that coil. You're picking up too much induction! I advised you not to let coil face exceed three eighths of an inch.


                         Try just one wrap of wire for me. Just one layer, and compare the results.

I will do more tests by reducing the number of turns. But that has to wait a week or so.

The only way forward I see is that synchro1 builds a coil himself and shows the world how it works.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #385 on: December 29, 2013, 04:46:27 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #386 on: December 29, 2013, 05:15:23 PM »
@Conradelektro,


                        Thanks for the effort! You're an astute experimenter and I have great respect for your care and precision. I really have no way to gauge the critical criteria of your experiment without access to your test lab. I can see now that the proportions of your rotor strength and speed are way below the ones we use in the bearingless Bedini experiments. Your flux field is way too weak compared to the ones we produce with over twenty five thousand rpm's with rotors of many times the strength. I am sure you can get closer to the forecasted results if you downsize the coil wraps dramatically. The considerable coil inductance is overwhelming the subtle flutter effect from the core magnets. Nice try!


                        There are other experimenters who follow this thread who have the kind of powerful magnet sphere rotors Lidmotor uses. It's very simple to spin one up bearingless, and build the kind of coil I outlined. Good luck to the believers who care to put additional effort into this project.  

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #387 on: December 29, 2013, 07:02:22 PM »
Conrad:

My compliments on your experimental setup, it's very neat and clean.  I have a few comments.

Note the two inductance measurements are nearly the same.  So that shows that the relative permeability of the magnet stack is close to one.

You are correct that there is no neutral zone and your tests confirmed that.  The simple application of common sense states that the further you move the pick-up coil away from the spinning magnet the lower the output from the coil. 

It looks like you adjusted the two different test setups by moving the coils closer or further away from the spinning magnet so you got the same RMS output voltage on your scope.   I am assuming that you also waited a few seconds to let the rotor speed stabilize.

Note that for the air core test the spinning magnet is rotating at 26.4 Hz to generate 152 mV RMS into the load resistor.  And for the stacked magnet core the magnet has to rotate at 29.2 Hz to generate the same voltage.  You also mentioned that the stacked magnet core was slightly further away from the spinning magnet.  Note there are two variables that changed at the same time so it's hard to be certain of what is exactly going on with just one test.  However, it looks like at first glance that the air core performs better as a pick-up coil compared to the stacked magnet core because its output voltage would be higher if the spinning magnet was also spinning at 29.2 Hz.

With respect to reducing the number of turns in the pick-up coil like Synchro said, that's not going to do much if you change the impedance matching resistor.  So if your current coil is 56 ohms and your new coil with less turns is say 20 ohms, then if you change the load resistor to a 20-ohm resistor you will get approximately the same results.

There is a misconception that if you add turns to a pick-up coil it becomes a more powerful coil with a more powerful output.  Or you can allege it is better at picking up energy from external magnetic induction.  This is not true.  If the geometry of the coil remains the same (but you change the number of turns) and you change the load resistance to match the wire resistance of the new coil with less or more turns then it will perform approximately the same way.  When you have a new coil with less turns driving a lower value of load resistance the output power measurement will be the same.  The measured voltage will be lower but the current will be higher and the power measurement will be the same.

How much or how little energy a pick-up coil can output is primarily a function of the geometry of the coil, not the number of turns.  The main factor is the cross-sectional area of the coil that interacts with the external changing magnetic flux that determines the power output.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #388 on: December 29, 2013, 07:21:43 PM »
Synchro1:

Quote
Take a look at the size speed and magnet strength of Lidmotor's neo sphere spinner with the two smaller neo's attached.  Compare the flux he's generating to the size of his tiny satillite neo inside "Maggie" satellite. Your rotor is very slow and weak compared to his. Your flux field is very deficient compared to his, and completely overwhelmed by the amount of wire you have in close proximity.

What you see in Lidmotor's clip is an example of impedance matching.  When the rotor is spinning and Maggie is far away and doesn't have the small neo magnet in "her mouth" then the rotor "sees" a high impedance "landscape."  Since the landscape is high impedance the rotor spins at high speed because there is no external load.  The Maggie coil doesn't generate enough EMF to switch on the LEDs so it looks like a dead open-circuit coil.

When you put the small neo magnet in the "mouth" of Maggie everything changes.  The magnetic field from the spinning magnet and the magnetic field from the small neo interact and start to mesh like gears.  On top of that the neo magnet itself is sitting inside the Maggie coil and that's attached to an LED load.  So the spinning neo magnet starts driving the LED load and it itself is being driven from the big spinning magnet.

What this all means from the perspective of the big spinning magnet is that the impedance of the "landscape" has changed from high impedance to a lower impedance.  That facilitates more transfer of power out from the spinning magnet and into the "load."  As the large magnet spins it feels some Lenz drag due to the meshed gears between the large magnet and the small neo magnet.

So that's the explanation for Maggie.   Maggie makes a small change to the impedance of the landscape as seen by the large spinning rotor magnet.  The impedance change is in the direction of the matched impedance and therefore more power is drawn by the "landscape" "load."

MileHigh

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.
« Reply #389 on: December 29, 2013, 07:26:43 PM »
"Satellite Coil" slows down the rotor in a similar way than a generator coil and produces about the same output.

I did a similar experiment than Lidmotor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr85aHLmB1g , who has a little ball magnet spinning inside a coil (Maggie) at quite a distance from a spinning big ball magnet (which is driven by some drive circuit with considerable power input).

I used my vertical magnet spinner and my "synchro coil". I removed the magnet stack core from the "synchro coil" and put a 6 mm ball magnet in the air core.

At about 100 mm distance from the spinning rotor the 6 mm ball magnet inside the air core of the "synchro coil" starts to spin and the "synchro coil" produces an output.

And if I move the "synchro coil" with the spinning ball magnet inside closer to the rotor (to about a 80 mm distance) I can produce the same output as in my former test with the "synchro coil" http://www.overunity.com/13852/self-accelerating-reed-switch-magnet-spinner/msg380869/#msg380869.

An if I move this "Satellite Coil" even closer the rotor slows down till it stops.

Interesting enough the output of this "Satellite coil" (with the spinning ball magnet inside the air core) behaves essentially like in my former test, just that I have to do the test at a distance of 80 mm to 100 mm from the rotor (instead of a distance of about 20 mm).

My point, a "Satellite Coil" slows the rotor down just like any other generator coil. But only with a low torque and low power demand magnet spinner like my vertical model this is clearly visible.

People spinning their rotor with several Watts (instead of 15 mW to 25 mW) do not see this slow down, because it is only very small. But if they would measure the output of their "Satellite Coils" carefully, they would see its very small output in comparison to the power input to the rotor.

Sorry, I did not make any photos yet. More tests to come.

Greetings, Conrad

 

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