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Author Topic: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks  (Read 115406 times)

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2013, 12:21:23 AM »
Hi e2matrix and all,Lights flickers several times during start up – that’s normal, of course. But what’s abnormal is they flicker when the "self-powering switch" it turned on (at 01:08). Go figure…
 
Again, part of the wiring is done through the metal chassis?! And, like tak22 noticed above, the contraption is conveniently placed on wooden boards and, moreover, quite close to the power outlet despite the fact that power cord is several meters long. Also, I’m pretty sure that the wooden board extending under that working bench (and under that wooden box too!) was pure accidentally placed there and nothing is hidden underneath…
Not to mention that if I’ve had a device like that, it is absolutely certain I would’ve started it mechanically. Wouldn’t you?!
 
On the other hand, if you can agree with the inventor for a close inspection (with measurements and everything), I can do it for you  assuming he’s not too far from my location. But please get the agreement; from what I’ve seen already, imho it’s not worthy to spend the time for even a phone call. Contact data is on their site. Oh, almost forgot to mention that their site says that: “autonomous systems will be manufactured within 3 months after signing the contract”.  That’s 3 months not 3 weeks. <Autonomous system>  in Romanian language is <sistem autonom> and <months> is <luni>.
 
Best regards,
Tinu

I think I agree with the board hiding a wire to the grid. My original suspicion was that there was a battery and inverter in the white box, however now that I look closely at the board in question there is a definite sussness to it.

If we look at the frame at 2:21 minutes we can see that the right hand leg of the frame sits on the board and the board is flat to the ground because of the weight on it. However if we look at the left side of the board and all the way under the box there is a gap under the board extending from the left leg of the device frame to under the box which is under the bench near where the grid power may be. Te gap under the board is consistent with the thickness of a mains cable, either a three in a row cable or even a regular two or three wire cable, the right hand side of the board is flat on the ground the left hand side of the board is above the ground even with the device sitting on it. I say it is cable fed from the grid under the board on the floor. And possibly has a battery inverter setup as well in the white box so he can show it "just runs" anywhere, or so he can show the light globe lighting from the input cable, none of the devices being powered means much at at all. That welder has got to be the smallest welder I have ever seen, If I plugged my MIG welder in and began welding 15 mm steel plate continuously I would say the machine would slow dramatically.

With all the equipment he has it would have taken about 10 seconds to trim that board off so it was long enough to just fit under the two legs of the frame, why extend it all the way to the box.

Honestly these fakes are tiresome. This guy ought to be blackballed.

Cheers




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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2013, 12:37:07 AM »
Hi Gotuluc,
 
By mechanical start I was thinking to a friction device apart from the system and ideally powered by anything else except electricity, eventually a small gasoline engine. That way I could have drove with it into the woods and proving with fewer doubts the device really works as advertised.
 
I look forward to hear from your recent experience,
Tinu

Hi Tinu,

thanks for your reply and clarification of the mechanical start. I do agree in those condition it would be had to disprove it does not work.  I think you have an excellent idea if he is open to proving it really works. However, we have to be realistic as it would be a big job to move this 1000 pounds+ device just to please the skeptic. But who knows, he may do it.

I think there is a strong possibility the induction motor (prime mover) is operating on reactive power.  Once switched to loop mode, the current for the prime mover could be supplied by the generator.
I don't think the flywheel is used to tap into some hidden energy. I think it's there to keep the balance and momentum going between the induction motor and the generator of sudden changes in current loads, as I think you wouldn't want a direct drive between prime mover and gen as it would be a rough ride. You can think of the flywheel as maybe like a shock absorber.

Now, if the generator is supplying reactive current to the prime mover, then there should be something in the circuit (between gen and prime mover) which can do this. If the prime mover is only using reactive power from the gen then the gen should not feel the prime mover as a load since it's not using real power. If this is the case then you would expect the gen to continue its momentum without needing much more mechanical power (other than friction losses) to keep turning.
Now if the gen does not loose its momentum and the prime mover is able to use the reactive power and convert it to mechanical torque, then it could be possible for the gen to keep turning. This could all be a balancing act of energy conversions.

One thing I have observed of circuits working with reactive power is, the more load you put on then the more efficient they get. I know it's hard to believe but that is my experience

Now, if this is how this device works, you may want to ask yourself, humm ::) ... what could be the part in the circuit that could be converting the gens current to a reactive current for the prime mover to use?

I have not seen anyone mention anything about and unusual part on this device!

Please note: this is how I believe this device could works and may not be factual.

Luc
 

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2013, 01:30:10 AM »
Reactive power is only the difference between the applied power and the consumed power, all reactive power is derived from the supply.

Reactive power does not come from nowhere it comes from the supply and is the unconsumed portion of the applied power, if it comes from the supply and does not return it is not reactive power, any power from the supply is metered and reactive power is un-metered so to speak. If "reactive" power is used it immediately becomes real power and is metered and paid for because it does not return to the supply to un-meter the "reactive" amount from the consumed amount.

Reactive power is either not used or converted to real power.

Any power that powers a load to produce work output is "real power".

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2013, 01:30:10 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2013, 01:37:53 AM »
Hi e2matrix,
 
On issues:
Floor is concrete. Not of the best quality and quite thin and cracked but still concrete.
I couldn’t see a single client in his portofolio so I can’t tell if he really has a business or just a website claiming that.
As for contacting him, I am 100% convinced he is a fraud so I would do more harm than good.
Yes I’m in Romania but I’m in Bucharest and by the phone number they are in North of Romania, some 500km away.
Don’t use google translate for Romanian language. It sucks. Better use Spanish instead – I read their website saying they’ve came back from Spain so presumably they shall speak Spanish. Alternatively, I can help translating your messages (assuming you will not fall in love so to write each other huge letters). PM me if you want it.
Despite the distance from my residence, I still might be able to do a field check in several weeks if you get their agreement for it. That’s the area where I could really help, especially because of my beliefs (of fraud, in this case)[/font]. I have enough expertise  (I’m physicist) but unfortunately not much testing equipment to take with me at their location. But do you really think you’ll ever get their agreement for inspecting the “merchandise” before anything else?
Wanna bet? ;)
 
Best regards,
Tinu

Tinu, could you please translate what he is taking about in this video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PFeFyKSOrHU#t=11

This video seems to be before he built the device and he seems to be describing how he is going to build it with the parts in his workshop.

Thanks

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2013, 01:49:58 AM »
Reactive power is only the difference between the applied power and the consumed power, all reactive power is derived from the supply.

Reactive power does not come from nowhere it comes from the supply and is the unconsumed portion of the applied power, if it comes from the supply and does not return it is not reactive power, any power from the supply is metered and reactive power is un-metered so to speak. If "reactive" power is used it immediately becomes real power and is metered and paid for because it does not return to the supply to un-meter the "reactive" amount from the consumed amount.

Reactive power is either not used or converted to real power.

Any power that powers a load to produce work output is "real power".

Cheers

Hi Farmham,

thanks for your post.

If I had an electrical device operating on reactive power and an oscilloscope was attached to measure the voltage and current, what would the scope shot look like?

Thanks for your help

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2013, 01:49:58 AM »
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Offline ariovaldo

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2013, 04:51:52 PM »
Hi Farmham,

thanks for your post.

If I had an electrical device operating on reactive power and an oscilloscope was attached to measure the voltage and current, what would the scope shot look like?

Thanks for your help

Luc


Ok, I'll gave my face to be punched.. and probably I'll be called crazy, but doesn't matter....
One year ago I started a project and I stopped before to test. I got sick and I could barely walk.
Anyway. The project is similar to this one and I have 2 options:
1) Disassemble ( is in the back yard and my wife is mad with me)
2) Go ahead and test, making the necessaries changes to speed up to the nominal generator speed. ( I need to review the sheaves sizes)
The motor is a 4 poles, single phase 1 hp. The generator is 7.5 kw.
What do you think?

Offline Liberty

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 05:57:05 PM »
Guy's
Please tell me your not falling for this one?.
As tinu said-one short piece of wood under one set of legs,and a long piece that go's under a box,under the table.Motor power cable inside box section,so as cant be seen where it is running-through to the switch and down the leg,then under the board to a power supply i suspect.
Take note of how much energy(power) was required to build the flywheel speed up to running speed. Once up to speed,you now have one large energy reserve.
The angle grinder may be rated at 2000 watt's,but will not draw that much when up and running,unless fully loaded down. Only a short burst of high startup current would have been required to get the grinder up to speed. Using the grinder as he was,would not use any where near it's rated power capacity.Same go's for the table saw-a quick burst of startup current(dampend by the flywheel),then a small piece of wood cut.
Then when he used the welder,you could hear the flywheel winding down quickly-this is why he only did a few quick runs with the welder.

This is clearly a fake-scam,and the warranty would only cover parts-not a Guarantee of a self runner.
Every part in that setup runs at a loss,as far as mechanical to electrical go's.
Electric motor=loss,due to heat disipation and ohmic losses
Bearing's=loss,due to heat and friction
Belts=loss,due to heat and friction
Generator=loss,due to heat and ohmic losses
Flywheel=loss-due to air friction.A flywheel will only ever give back what you put into it-nothing more.

Your first look should be to find where gains might be made. If you only come up with losses(as listed above)and no gains-then you have your answer.

My 2 cents worth about why conventional generators/alternators can not produce more energy out than in.

When a magnet source (either magnet or electromagnetic coil source) passes by a wire or coil, the higher the efficiency of the generator (the better the magnetic coupling) the more it loads down the source that turns the generator.  Imagine a magnet passing by a coil.  The source will always be greater than the coil output due to air gap and resistance of wire and other losses.  The better the magnetic coupling (the higher quality the generator/alternator), the more physical resistance will be coupled back to the movement of the magnetic source. 

Therefore, the output of a standard generator/alternator will always be less than the input required (always under-unity).  Adding a flywheel can help absorb peak load usage from the generator, to help maintain average speed, but adds no energy to the system.  It only stores previous energy input from the source, having the effect of leveling or averaging out the output under a pulse load.

The only way a generator can perform OU is to stop or reduce the counter magnetic force or magnetic drag of the electromagnet that generates power output.  That is where my research is centered.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 05:57:05 PM »
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Offline tinu

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2013, 07:42:04 PM »
Tinu, could you please translate what he is taking about in this video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PFeFyKSOrHU#t=11

This video seems to be before he built the device and he seems to be describing how he is going to build it with the parts in his workshop.

Thanks

Luc

 Ok, Luc.
(And I apologies for misspelling your username on my previous post!)
 
In the video various generators are being shown.
First one is a dynamo of 28kW based on Nd magnets that delivers either 690V or 400V (+/- 5% he says). Then it’s functioning is demonstrated by hand cranking, on a load of 2.5kW Bosch Flex. He explains the setup, estimating an rpm not more than 50 and specifying that only one of three phases is used. It is recommended by the inventor to be used for hydraulic or water turbines or windmills or “perpetual”(lol). The inventor’s words are “perpetual, for those who understand what perpetual means”.
 
Then he moves to the second generator, which is 7.5kW at 300 rpm, based on Nd magnets too. “Low rpm, high energy production”. Then, after excusing for not having prepared a better setup, he demonstrates it’s functioning with a 12V/21W bulb, with emphasis on the small movement of the rotor and the possibility of exceeding 21W and thus of burning out the bulb. This one can also be used for hydraulic or water turbines or windmills. (No “perpetual” this time?! Why?! )
 
Now, he moves on that paper listing the generators and he invites interested persons to get in contact with him.
 
Translation of the paper:
 
“INSTALLATIONS FOR YOUR OWN ELECTRICAL ENERGY  (note: hand writing on top; actually the wording is unclear/poorly chosen in Romanian language, the exact three words are “installations”, “current”, “own”)
 
T.M.V.
 
Installation of 3000W – 4000EUR
Installation of 5000W – 7000EUR
Installation of 20kW – 20.000EUR
Installation of 30kW – 25.000EUR
Installation of 50kW – 35.000EUR
Installation of 100kW – 45.000EUR
 
Guarantees: 5 years
 
Alternating current 220V-380V 120A 240A
 
We’ll fulfill the orders only after 60% of the contract value is paid in advance. Manufacture will be completed in 60 days after signing the contract.
 
The beneficiary obliges himself to make available an indoor surface of 10 sqm for the equipments to be installed for him.
 
…”
 
There are two more paragraphs written with smaller fonts but I can not read them accurately – they are about the obligations of the supplier.
 
Then he presents their capability of delivering solar systems and he moves onto describing the "original" 165W Japanese ("Not Chinese!") solar panel.
On the end he explains the contractual terms (basically what’s on the paper), the advance payment of 60% and the final payment of 40% after the installation in completed. However, he is saying that manufacture may take up to but no longer than 90 days (that would be due to the parts that need to be purchased). All components are new (no second hand). He also shows the three-phase station and he ends with their capabilities of manufacturing electrical systems appropriate for regular houses, cabins and even hotels, in the range of up to 100kW.
 
Sorry, but there are no clues on the energy generation out of nothing…
 
My personal feeling (and here I admit I may be wrong but I’ve seem the same case a few times already) is that they are the typical hard-working and intrepid kind-of-fellows but only with a moderate level of education (possibly as electrical or electro-mechanical technicians) who just have learn something leading them to believe that motor-generator combination can be made perpetual. It may be the case they are no aiming to fraud (I hope) but instead they’re so confident their setup will somehow work (if stronger magnets or larger windings are to be used etc), up to the point they already declare having it done and thus filming the other (and fake, imho) movie on their website. By the pronunciation, accent and wordings, I suspect they’ve come only relatively recent to work with NdFeB magnets and with their use in PM generators.
 
Best regards,
Tinu

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2013, 07:49:14 PM »
Everyone please take a look at this.   It explains why there can be Over Unity in the Flyweel:
 http://www.resonantfractals.org/Magnetism/Flywheel.htm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2013, 07:49:14 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2013, 08:01:18 PM »
Hi tinu,  thanks for taking time to write out everything in that video.   Rather than trying to communicate further with this inventor with Google Translate I'll leave it up to you to contact him by email if you decide you want to.   His email is on his web site and it works but his contact direct through the web site did not seem to work for me so just email him if you want to.   It would be great if you could ask a few questions since you have the same language maybe he will be more open to answering some questions.   I still have hope that he may have stumbled on to the effect I believe others have found and is related to info in my previous post from this web site: 
http://www.resonantfractals.org/Magnetism/Flywheel.htm


ariovaldo,   That's nice what you have built and it would be a shame to not test it after all that work.   Please continue with your project if possible while staying out of trouble with the wife ;)    Your setup looks good but I'm not sure you will see COP > 1 without having some way of controlling the input motor (pulsing circuit or some way to create a timing for energy use versus energy extraction). 


Offline tinu

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2013, 12:44:09 AM »
 Hi E2,
 
You’re welcome. If there is more related to my country and/or language, I’ll be glad to help for this topic as well as for others. 
 
Since I see you believe so much in the chance of OU here, I’ll try to give him a phone call, either tomorrow or the day after. If you have specific questions, please PM me or post them here. If real deal, are you interested in purchasing a system or shall I speak for myself in an attempt to get their agreement for a visit to their workshop (visit which I see not only helpful for the case but the only way to solve it)? Please note that his youtube account http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTM_EQim5JE has interesting comments. Unfortunately answers are in Romanian language but here are some of them:
 
Misha25able: What principle in two words?
valy valentin: Mechanics
Misha25able: Thanks. But where energy source? Is gravity?
No answer
 
Petventures: If this is legit it could change the world and you could become one of the wealthiest inventors of all time
valy valentin: You’re right. Thanks.
 
jpmastertech: Ohhh and a Rotorverter motor from my uncle Jose Torres(the original inventor)
valy valentin: Possibly yes, but I have no knowledge about your uncle
valy valentin: But then tell me more about him
 
Donald Tejones: something hiding underneath on wooden board right footer through under the table...remove it wooden board to prove it no hidden wire to power the tools should be test
django4444: yes, you are right. There is a hidden wire, at 2:44 you can see where it comes out of the frame , then leads into the box. clearly a Fake imo
valy valentin: That box is a capacitor for stabilizing the current spikes.
Note: he admits there are hidden cables!
 
theoneagain: looks promising pal whats the deal using power caps or what?
valy valentin: I don’t understand the translation. Write in Spanish
Note: Voila, like I assumed you may write him in Spanish. Google translate does a good job for Spanish but very bad for Romanian language (at least at present times).
 
ady0187 (Ro): Ok, I can’t wait but aren’t you afraid because of the “men in black”to sell such device? (Note: the original comment is written in Ro, hence the brackets after the username)
valy valentin: My darling, but I’m not selling anything for the moment. First of all I want to document it, to fill in for a patent and then we’ll see. (1 week ago)
Note: So, is he selling it or not?! Because a refuse to sell after advertising is a sign of fraud: avoidance.
 
ady0187 (Ro): Hello. I’m member of a foreign site and they discuss about your generator in particular being …“scam” and having hidden wires under the wooden board on the right side. I too agree it looks suspicious of having that board placed under a box? Explanations?
valy valentin: Yes, you’re right but in several days the generator will be completed a you’ll see everything is true. (1 week ago)
Note: Is ady0187 here or he is on another OU forum? Please, I’m too lazy to look for members. I suppose he’s elsewhere; a week ago current topic did not exist here.
 
theoneagain: to good to be true defenitely a HOAX !!!
valy valentin: It is true.
Note: I assume he wanted to say “”it is for real” ;)
 
theoneagain: il need to see this running with my own eyes
valy valentin: ok
 
mihaisl (Ro): How much would it cost your machine? (2 months ago)
valy valentin: Current device is not yet completed. I’m still working on it. It is a 28kW out of which 3kW is for itself. What you see is for testing; when finalized it will weight around 1000kg. My price is 1EUR per watt meaning 10kW=10000EUR.
Note: Well, is he selling or not? Or is it that two months ago he wanted to sell it and by the time he replied to ady0187 (1 week ago, look above) he has changed his mind already?!
Another note: It seems from the above he believes an electrical generator takes same amount of mechanical power regardless of the load. I had the same feeling in the movie I’ve transcript above, where he uses a 2.5kW load as a “fact” but that flex motor is probably running idle on 50W or less… It looks bad. But at least we know that it takes 3kW to spin a big flywheel.
 
There are few more interesting comments but I’ll stop here. Unfortunately, my assumption he has education as an electrical technician is probably wrong. He does not seem to know what the value of a capacitor is:
MsAndru79 (Ro): I would be interested to know the capacitance of the capacitor.
valy valentin: Capacitor 13857v 125kv  50hz
neither clearly what a capacitor is used for and how in AC:
MsAndru79 (Ro): And how is the capacitor used? In series or parallel circuit?
valy valentin: Capacitor is for “reactive” and as “voltage mediator”.
nor he is acquainted with “my uncle” Mendeleev:
MsAndru79 (Ro): I assume your generator is built using neodim magnets
valy valentin: Yes, the generator is built using neodium magnets.
 
That’s all for today E2 and folks.
I hope you’ll enjoy as much as I had a really good laugh while writing it here.
 
Have fun,
Tinu
 

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2013, 12:44:09 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2013, 01:16:51 AM »
Great translation job Tinu!!!

I don't think he is the brain behind how this really works. He must of been given the information on how to build it or he has a friend that is camera shy who built it for him.

Noticed he said the magic word: reactive

At least he knows on what principle it's working on!

I guess I'm the only one seeing that and the unusual part on the unit.

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2013, 01:23:23 AM »

Ok, I'll gave my face to be punched.. and probably I'll be called crazy, but doesn't matter....
One year ago I started a project and I stopped before to test. I got sick and I could barely walk.
Anyway. The project is similar to this one and I have 2 options:
1) Disassemble ( is in the back yard and my wife is mad with me)
2) Go ahead and test, making the necessaries changes to speed up to the nominal generator speed. ( I need to review the sheaves sizes)
The motor is a 4 poles, single phase 1 hp. The generator is 7.5 kw.
What do you think?

In the second post on this page  I have explained the possible principle this unit is working on.

Your device will not work with just a flywheel.

You will have to understand what reactive power is, how to create a circuit that will maintain it and send it to your prime mover.

Luc

Offline ariovaldo

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2013, 02:15:51 AM »
In the second post on this page  I have explained the possible principle this unit is working on.

Your device will not work with just a flywheel.

You will have to understand what reactive power is, how to create a circuit that will maintain it and send it to your prime mover.

Luc
As I said, I didn't test and adjustment is necessary in the system. Also I'm very aware about reactive and I will be testing several configurations.
Thanks



Offline e2matrix

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Re: Self Running Motor Generator - for sale in 3 weeks
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2013, 06:46:47 PM »
Thank you once again tinu for your interpretations!   valy seems to be confusing some questions about what some think is a wire under the board with the HV capacitor.   And his reply on the capacitor value is either a misunderstaing, misinterpretation or he does not have even basic understanding of a capacitor,  OR maybe he does not want to share that info.   There are a lot of questions at this point.   I would not be able to purchase a unit myself and especially with shipping costs from Romania.   I also would not be interested in buying one given the terms of needing 60% up front and having to wait up to 90 days.   I think that will put most people off from buying.   But I do know one member here who has been looking to purchase something, likely has the means to do so and may be interested in this if he can see it in person.   I haven't talked to him lately but most people here know Steven Jones - aka PhysicsProf.   He's been looking for some time.   


As far as quesstions to ask valy I think you know the basic things everyone would want to know.   A couple things that come to mind right now:

-  I would ask him what is the box on the handle which appears to have an LCD screen.  Is that a off-the-shelf motor controller or a special circuit?


- Are motors off the shelf or do they need rewiring or reworking?  (was this already answered? - need more coffee ;)  )


- Ask him if he would he please make a video that clearly shows his setup away from any possible external wiring - as in elevated to convince everyone there are not hidden wires going to the unit from an external source. 


- Ask him the Farad value of his 'capacitor'.   


Anyone else with some fairly straight forward questions please post ASAP.  I have the impression he is not willing or able to answer extensive detailed questions about his device, especially if he is seeking to get a patent on it.   

 

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