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Author Topic: Overunity (what is it?)  (Read 41154 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2013, 12:15:30 AM »
You are still "stuck" in the power-in vs. power-out universe, even if you might not have a grasp of the scientific terminology.  So if you have an over unity "black box" you definitely want to open up the box to see what makes it tick.  If there was indeed a process, that implies that you could design a machine around the process itself.

Now if you could fire a cannonball horizontally fast enough, the curvature of the Earth would "fall away" from the cannonball such that as the cannonball falls the Earth falls away at the same rate.  Hmmmmm... lol

I am sensing a buzz about cavitation but I am not feeling it.  You are overcoming the tensile strength of water and you end up with what is essentially a vacuum in the water.  So there is a HUGE source of power required to create the cavitation.  Submarines worry about the noise it creates and now the modern ones all have only one large propeller.  (I once read Tom Clancy!)

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2013, 12:15:30 AM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2013, 02:35:01 AM »
Webby1:

Sorry I can't visualize what you are talking about with the magnet and the metal filings.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2013, 03:17:58 AM »
Okay I think I might understand now.  Something like when a demonstrator has a glass bottle filled with iron filiings and then brings the end of a magnet up to the bottle and you see all of the filings stand up and line up on top of each other and make little spike shapes?  Or maybe you have seen the exotic ferro-fluid clips on YouTube where this liquid that looks like black oil will do similar things when they energize electromagnets?  There are dynamic ferro-fluid sculpture clips on YouTube where you can see all sorts of amazing spike-like patterns created in the strong magnetic fields.  It's magnetic goop.

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2013, 03:17:58 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2013, 07:59:16 AM »
I would like you all to look at this video again,as i noticed something when watching a second time.The video was shot in slow motion,and at a guess,we would think(judging on previous video's)that the rotor is doing at least 2800RPM. So from this,you can see how much the film has been slowed.You will also see when they inject the dye.But check out the bubbling water in each of the cavitation hole's-it looks like the water is boiling at normal speed. So can you imagine how violenly and fast the water would be moving about in those holes at normal camera speed. No wonder that it boils instantly,with that type of violent movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oha0Doj-seI

Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2013, 08:02:22 AM »
Here is a better video,showing the device as a whole,befor they switch to slow motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBxpn6odtcA

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2013, 08:02:22 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2013, 08:21:52 AM »
So it seems that we agree(mostly) that in all OU machine's there has to be an unknown energy source entering the system somewhere.
The setup in the two previous video's,couldnt be much simpler. We have an electric motor,and a drum full of hole's,that is submersed in water.It is claimed that this system is up to 170% efficient-OU?.

So insted of just dismising it as rubbish,can we find anything in the systems opperation,or any of the materials(including the water)that could produce this excess energy,under these condition's?.
Would the high speed collisions of water and air,boil water far more efficiently that fire(or any other method) can?

Maybe we have been going about this the wrong way,in reguards to building these free energy machines.Insted of building a machine,and hope that it pulls in some energy from somewhere-why not first identify what could be an energy source,then build the machine to capture it,or use it.

Offline Tito L. Oracion

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2013, 10:38:08 AM »
Hi everyday ;D


Overunity is simply FREE ENERGY


An energy that is free cycled to itself abundantly.  8)

By master otitots ;D
 

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2013, 10:38:08 AM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2013, 01:28:27 PM »

Maybe we have been going about this the wrong way,in reguards to building these free energy machines.Insted of building a machine,and hope that it pulls in some energy from somewhere-why not first identify what could be an energy source,then build the machine to capture it,or use it.

 8) 8)

Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2013, 04:16:50 PM »

I am sensing a buzz about cavitation but I am not feeling it.  You are overcoming the tensile strength of water and you end up with what is essentially a vacuum in the water.  So there is a HUGE source of power required to create the cavitation.  Submarines worry about the noise it creates and now the modern ones all have only one large propeller.  (I once read Tom Clancy!)
MH
I dont think that is right in this case.Sure,when we place water under a vacume,the water boil's-as such. But when you remove that vacume and stick your hand in the water,it is still cold.The water in this device is that hot it turns to steam.To achieve an output of steam like seen in the video's,the water would actualy have to be under preasure-not a vacume.

There is nothing in that machine that could put the water under a vacume.Once cavitation starts,there is small explosions taking place where the cavitation bubbles are in contact with the impellor.Also note that once cavitation happens,90% of the load on the prime mover is removed.

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2013, 04:16:50 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2013, 06:46:00 PM »
Tinman:

I am no expert at fluid dynamics but I can tell you what I think.

For starters, those video clips are not showing slow motion, they are clips of the drum being illuminated by a stroboscope to emulate slow motion.

I think that there are two things going on inside the drum.  The first is that you are seeing cavitation bubbles in the machined holes in the spinning inner drum.  This is due to the Bernoulli principle.  Effectively it means that the water is "boiling" at room temperature because of the intense suction it is experiencing inside the machined holes.  In my personal opinion this is just eye candy.  It doesn't really do anything and the cavitation is meaningless.  The cavitation bubbles are not "explosions," they are just the suction produced overcoming the tensile strength of the water.

The second thing that is going on is that the water in the narrow gap between the inner spinning drum and the fixed outer drum "jacket" is undergoing a shearing force between the two moving surfaces.  This shearing force is resisting the rotation of the inner drum and thus resisting the rotation of the shaft.  Therefore the motor driving the drum assembly at a certain angular velocity has to output a certain amount of torque to overcome this resistance.  Just for the sale of completeness, angular velocity x torque = power, and that power has to go somewhere.  The only place for it to go is in the heating up of the water.

The shearing of the water causing friction causing heat is independent from the cavitation.  Even though the two processes are taking place right next to each other, they are not related.

So my conclusion is that for this device, the thermal power output from the heated water will be slightly less than the mechanical power supplied by the electrical motor.  In other words, nothing special.  If the people promoting this system want to prove that it is doing something special, all that they have to do is show the electrical power into the drive motor and compare it to the thermal power output by the heated water.   This would be very easy to do.

MileHigh

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2013, 10:38:29 PM »
Quote
In my personal opinion this is just eye candy.  It doesn't really do
anything and the cavitation is meaningless.  The cavitation bubbles are not
"explosions," they are just the suction produced overcoming the tensile strength
of the water.

LOL

It appears you haven't even bothered to google the definition of "sonoluminescence" or "cavitation" for that matter.  For if you did, you might have noticed that breaking the "tensile strength" of water via the highly efficient means of employing a highly efficient electric motor, produces prodigious gains!  That the effect is "nuclear" without producing negative radiation is being shown in experiments around the world!

First, the humble crustacean version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXK2G2AzMTU

A "slightly" more complex experiment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba-FeswwGNQ 

And another example of many easily found demonstrations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g7Sf2OaVIk

Quote
If the people promoting this system want to prove that it is doing something
special, all that they have to do is show the electrical power into the drive
motor and compare it to the thermal power output by the heated water. 
 This would be very easy to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw&list=PL5733824E8EC41CDA

Apparently NASA was impressed, they donated advanced bearing systems in exchange for sharing info.  They are installing these as "scale free heating" systems for major players around the world.....etc...etc...So it seems clear that Griggs is playing ball and getting rich in bypassing the consumer market and focusing on the corporate dollar.

Nope.  Nothing to see here.  NASA and major corporations love to overspend for "eye candy".  LOL

So, as one can see, cavitation holds much promise, the effect is real.  A five minute cursory google search reveals the hilarity of your assertions. 

Imagine what hours of study might reveal....

"A mind too open can't keep anything in.  A mind too closed, can't let anything in."
 

 
TS

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2013, 10:38:29 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2013, 11:33:58 PM »
TS:

I know what sonoluminance and cavitation are.  There is even "Certs breath mint" luminance.  Is your assertion that the drum heater is outputting more heat power than mechanical power in?  And it's due to the cavitation?  If that's it or if you mean something else please explain the process.  I know the "old" pistol shrimp clip, thanks for the new one.  That's just COE in action.  Can you see why?

I only skimmed through the synthetic radioactivity clip because it was too long.  The implosive cavitation clip was cool.  But again, what's the point?  If you look at a bubble cavitation event, do you see something special?

Quote
Apparently NASA was impressed, they donated advanced bearing systems in exchange for sharing info.  They are installing these as "scale free heating" systems for major players around the world.....etc...

Great for them.  Again, this is a mechanical direct to thermal water heater.  It may fill certain niches for fast hot water on demand where there is plenty of mechanical energy readily available.  But is it special?  You seem to think so but I can't see it.

Quote
So, as one can see, cavitation holds much promise, the effect is real.

I don't want to beat a horse to death, but I would love it if you could elaborate.   Let me give you some thoughts about cavitation and ships.  They don't like it because it damages their propellers and reduces the efficiency of the propeller.  It also produces noise so the Navy hates cavitation.  In that clip with the the rotating cylinder water heater, the cavitation inside each machined hole is of no use.  In fact, just like for a ship propeller you loose thrust and therefore power, the cavitation inside the machined holes in the rotating drum has similar negative effects.  The cavitation is causing water hammering inside each machined hole, and lots of that water hammering power is going into the rotating metal drum and traveling through it like sound waves.  That's probably fatiguing the metal and stressing the bearings.  Think of it, you look at the drum water heater and you can hear the sound of the continuous cavitation going on inside.  That's just wasted power that is being burnt off inside the drum.  In this particular case, it eventually becomes heat anyways, but it is still an unwanted "disturbance" to the smooth operation of the drum water heater.  In my opinion, it's just for show, like a prop on a movie set.

Just to add a thought.  There may also be a legitimate reason for the machined holes.  They may help to circulate the water or something.  But the cavitation events inside each machined hole don't create energy.  Since energy is the focus here, my contention is that cavitation may be interesting and may have certain niche applications, but there is nothing with respect to energy that cavitation brings to the table.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2013, 11:58:50 PM »
I went back to the Hydro Dynamics web site:

Quote
•The heart of the technology is a specialized rotor
•The rotor has dead-ended cavities
•Spinning creates low pressure at the cavity bottoms
•The low pressure zones collapse releasing shockwaves

•Cavitation is created in the cavities, not on metal surfaces. •The Cavitation is controlled, therefore there is no damage.
The SPR technology represents a new and innovative way to apply energy to liquids.

So they are saying that they want the cavitation events to produce heat.  I'll take them at their word, they have to produce heat one way or the other.

In essence, they are stating that the rotor produces more friction, requiring more torque, producing more heat.  It sounds perfectly legitimate and I could very well be dead wrong when I called the machined holes "props."  It's a trick to get the drum to produce more heat, almost like "adding sandpaper" to the drum.   So if you can produce more heat in a smaller drum size that's perfectly legitimate.  But they don't claim more heat produced than normal, which is what one would expect for a legit company.

I was erroneously under the impression that Hydro Dynamics Inc. was claiming over unity.  I got mixed up between them and that old fire station clip.  So it's all legit looking but no over unity.

MileHigh

Offline telecom

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2013, 02:23:48 AM »
Hi
in the you tube video they actually are talking about the overunity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjGSXKSLpfY

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2013, 04:25:25 AM »
Telecom:

Thanks I watched that clip.  So it turns out that the company Hydro Dynamics Inc. is indeed the same company that did the fire station installation.  In the clip that you linked to the visiting scientist says that they didn't do proper scientific measurements, etc, etc.  That clip also looks quite old, I am guessing at least eight years old.

I think that I figured the story out now.  Note on the current Hydro Dynamics web site they mention nothing, zero, nada about excess heat production and over unity.  Possibly somewhere down the line over the last 10 years they did legitimate scientific measurements and finally saw that there was no over unity to their satisfaction.  More importantly, they came across legitimate industrial applications for their drum-based mechanical water heater system.  Great for them, they are now selling their systems into legitimate industrial applications.

The last thing that the people at Hydro Dynamics want now is a crowd that believes that they have an over unity device hanging on and generating free energy Internet buzz over them.  That would hurt their business.

They have evolved into a real company and that's fantastic.  Any claims of over unity are now ancient history for them, they are way past that.  So the story has a happy ending.

MileHigh

 

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