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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Floor on September 19, 2013, 09:32:41 PM

Title: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 19, 2013, 09:32:41 PM
Opinion





                 Cheers
                         floor
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: forest on September 19, 2013, 09:55:49 PM
6  ;D
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: telecom on September 20, 2013, 06:02:38 AM
What is a right angle interaction?
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 20, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
oops wrong file
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: tinman on September 20, 2013, 04:41:22 PM
Every device runs at 100% efficiency,we only choose to use one of the output of the device.

There is no such thing as overunity-as energy cannot be created. There for,no device can put out more energy than it consumes,which= no overunity device.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 20, 2013, 04:48:04 PM
@telecom

Thanks for the response

I' not an expert on OU (over unity) I don't know anyone that is one.  To my knowledge, no one has a proven OU device, that can be self
looped and power it's self. I am on this board to learn, and to try to discover or invent, such a device.  Conventional science says that it
is a waste of time to seek or try to prove OU.

You question.  "what is right angle interaction ?

First  let me say that I do not know your level of technical experience, knowledge, back ground etc.  You may be more knowledgeable
than me.  I will try to explain simply so that you, or other readers who are perhaps not very knowledgeable will understand.
So please don't be offended if I explain in very basic terms.

1. A right angle is a 90 degree angle.
2. A right angle interaction of a moving object with a stationary object will transmit more energy from the moving object to the stationary
object, than any other less direct angle. example : a bullet is more likely to ricochet off any object (even a small twig) that it
encounters during it's flight, the farther from 90 degrees the intersection is between the objects.
3. Electric currents are generated in a conductor, when a magnetic field moves across the conductor.  This electric current is at 90 deg. to the mag. field direction of movement.
4. Conversely the same 90 deg. relationship exists when an elect current produces a Mag. field
5. A permanent mag. mounted upon wheels suspending it in close proximity to and above a flat iron surface, will roll across that iron surface easier than it can be pulled from that surface.
6. others

I hope this answer satisfies you question.

                      thanks for the interest

                                          cheers
                                               floor
                                               

                                       
6.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 20, 2013, 05:40:45 PM
@tinman

good point tinman

every device is 100% efficient, when considering all out puts.

It may be that creation is all ready done, all else is transformation.

And it seems that all mater is composed of energy, 100% so.

Is OU defined as the creation of energy ?

Are atoms energy systems that are winding down ?  If they are, does it matter to us within the time scale we experience our existence
through ? Where would that energy go ?  how much energy would it spend to get there?  Poor little energies with no homes to go to !

These are of course, only rhetorical questions, that I am not really expecting any answer.to.

Thank for the thought provoking input

                                                     sincerely
                                                           floor


 




Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: telecom on September 20, 2013, 06:12:22 PM
Hi floor,
I would add that it should convert already existing in the nature energy sources into the usable energy.
We learned how to do it with the streams and rivers, wood, oil, coal, natural gas, solar light, waves, tides.
Now we have to learn how to convert the most fundamental force - the gravity.


Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: forest on September 20, 2013, 08:39:58 PM
telecom is right
energy is here even you don't see it


simple question : do you believe that a piece of wood has energy ? do you see that energy ? no, you need a special case to release it from wood  ;)
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 20, 2013, 09:17:05 PM
If one thinks that OU is can't be, then please say so here if you would like to, one time. But then, this is not the topic here. There are other topics here at the OU forum that are not OU topics. 

If anyone wishes to debate the possability of OU, please start your own topic as such.

I might be willing to post there.

                                        Cheers
                                                 floor
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: tinman on September 21, 2013, 10:12:39 AM
@ Floor
Why try and speculate on the impossible-OU.
Would you not get a lot further looking  into the probable?.

You have fact's from which you can start.
1-Energy cannot be destroyed
2-Energy cannot be created
3-Energy CAN be transformed.

There is no doubt that there exist unlimited amounts of energy throughout the universe,and this energy cannot be destroyed-only transformed.
I am quite supprised that no one(including myself) hasnt looked further into the slingshot effect-used to build up speed of space craft around planets and suns. We know this works. It's a mater of taking the available energy provided by nature,and transforming it into something we can use.

We have done this already,in the way of solar pannel's. 60 years ago,this would have been a wonderous device,but today it is only an everyday device,because we understand how it work's.

I guess people choose the word !Overunity!,because we already have many free energy devices-devices powered by nature.

So if we are to use the word overunity,there first needs to be a definition of the word.
Looking on the net,we see no definition from wikipedia-it go's straight to purpetual motion.
So should we make a definition ourself?.

Overunity device>-A device that provides a greater output than the input provided by man.

Problem with the above,is that we already have devices that fit the above definition.

So i think maybe you need to decide what OU is,befor any other plans are made.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Qwert on September 21, 2013, 12:22:34 PM
@tinman, in reply #4 you said:
"There is no such thing as overunity-as energy cannot be created. There for,no device can put out more energy than it consumes,which= no overunity device."

while in reply #10 you said something exactly opposite:
 "Overunity device>-A device that provides a greater output than the input provided by man.

Problem with the above,is that we already have devices that fit the above definition." (my emphasis in both sentences)
So, where is the truth? When you were more drunk: while writing reply #4 or #10? No such thing as overunity? But overunity devices we have?? Where?
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: telecom on September 21, 2013, 04:10:16 PM
I think this device can be classified as overunity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_Robotics#Wave_Glider
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: tinman on September 21, 2013, 05:43:12 PM
@tinman, in reply #4 you said:
"There is no such thing as overunity-as energy cannot be created. There for,no device can put out more energy than it consumes,which= no overunity device."

while in reply #10 you said something exactly opposite:
 "Overunity device>-A device that provides a greater output than the input provided by man.

Problem with the above,is that we already have devices that fit the above definition." (my emphasis in both sentences)
So, where is the truth? When you were more drunk: while writing reply #4 or #10? No such thing as overunity? But overunity devices we have?? Where?
Qwert
Please read again,and if understanding dosnt come your way,then it is you that has perhaps had too much to drink.

Quote : Overunity device>-A device that provides a greater output than the input provided by man.

You did see the last 3 words,didnt you Qwert?-PROVIDED BY MAN.
Meaning any more than what man put into the device ,has to come from some where else.

I also did not state that overunity devices we already have. This was your incorrect termination.
My statement was-Quote: Problem with the above,is that we already have devices that fit the above definition.
Meaning-Fits the above definition of what we might precieve as overunity.

The system that would fit the above definition-solar power setups on home's,with grid tie inverters.
Man provides so much of the energy,and the sun provides the rest.
More energy being consumed than man provided.

Is it realy that hard to understand Qwert?.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Qwert on September 21, 2013, 07:12:17 PM

Is it realy that hard to understand Qwert?.

It's not hard to understand. You made some description errors which allow to such understanding. and it is still incorrect: in that meaning, all the generators which convert any non-electric energy into electric, are overunity. What does that mean: "provided by man"? Be more specific. Which definition exactly those devices fit?
You know, it's an art to write in a way understandable to all, not just for the author. And your response to my reply is an evidence that I do it correctly. Or, you are just more brilliant, over me. It would be good if others judge this.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Qwert on September 21, 2013, 07:31:35 PM
@Tinman, sorry, you are correct; I've just re-read the whole once again: I've must been drunk yesterday. And today I still have those after-drink sensations.
Mea maxima culpa.

Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: e2matrix on September 21, 2013, 07:39:01 PM
@ Floor
Why try and speculate on the impossible-OU.
Would you not get a lot further looking  into the probable?.

You have fact's from which you can start.
1-Energy cannot be destroyed
2-Energy cannot be created
3-Energy CAN be transformed.

<snip <
 
A few days ago I wouldn't have blinked twice at that statement but it seems there may be some challenge to that now from a Professor in Greece.   Read his page here and his 100000 Euro challenge :   http://papimi.gr/osc.htm
At least I think what he is saying would challenge your 'facts' above.   

Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 21, 2013, 07:46:52 PM
@TINMAN

1.  YES THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT, WHAT YOU CONSIDER IMPOSSIBLE

2. I HAVE ALREADY STATED YO YOU, THAT THIS TOPIC IS NO DISCUSSION AT IF OU EXISTS OR NOT.
    PLEASE START YOUR OWN TOPIC, IF YOU WISH TO DEBATE SUCH.

3.  PERHAPS YOU ARE ACCUSTOMED TO TELLING PEOPLE, WHAT YOU "THINK MAYBE  YOU NEED TO DECIDE BEFORE OTHER PLANS ARE MADE", ON OTHER FORUM TOPICS. BUT THIS KIND AUTHORITARIEN ,  IMPOLITENESS, WONT BE TOLERATED UNDER MY TOPICS.

4. THE CREATORS OF THE OTHER FORUM TOPICS, YOU ARE ACCUSTOMED TO VISITING, MAY BE MORE TOLERANT THAN I.  NOTE, HOW EVER THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE.

5. YOU NOW HAVE 2 STRIKES AGAINST YOU IN MY "LITTLE BOOK" (MORE ACTUALLY). i SUGGEST THAT YOU READ THE RULES OF CONDUCT FOR THE OU FORUM, BEFORE YOU POST ON ANY OF MY TOPICS AGAIN.

6. I WILL NOT ALLOW MY TOPICS TO DEGRADE INTO INFIGHTING.

7. YOU PROBABLY HAVE A GOOD MIND AND IDEA.  YOU WOULD BE WELCOME ON THIS TOPIC IF YOU WILL KEEP TO COURTESY AND POLITENESS TO OTHERS.

                                FLOOR

Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 21, 2013, 08:01:50 PM
@QWERT

IF YOU HAVE READ MY FEW AND PREVIOUS POSTS HERE, THEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHY YOU NOW ALSO HAVE I STRIKE IN MY LITTLE BOOK.
I DON'T  CARE IF IT IS BECAUSE, YOU WERE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO TAKE THE TROLL BAIT, OR WHO STARTED THE INSULTS ETC.

"WHEN YOU WERE MORE DRUNK"

                                                     FLOOR
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: TechStuf on September 21, 2013, 08:35:28 PM
Quote
There is no such thing as overunity-as energy cannot be created.

Interesting perspective....considering that the Universe is filled with the stuff. 

If the mind bending amounts of energy that are present everywhere in the universe were not created at some point, then they were always here, ad infinitum, always the same.  Matter is being converted to energy all the time....and upon ever closer inspection, gives all the appearance of actually being comprised of energy. 

It is wiser to say that matter and energy can be converted to one another, and that, in reality, all is energy of one form or another.  In the case of a gravity driven wheel, it too would not be creating energy, but merely converting it from one form to another, but in a way previously unrecognized.

That our reality is MUCH more than we currently realize is now a "Given", at least according to those doing the research.  And in all that "MUCH more".....is plenty to go around, and around....

Practical examples of "overunity" are being found at an increasing rate.  And in these hyper efficient energy transductions, glimpses are being given into the "Higher Realm".  Knowledge is being greatly increased, but seems it will not outpace man's greater lust for power.

Perhaps by design, intervention is required.
 

TS
 
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Qwert on September 21, 2013, 08:45:52 PM
@QWERT

IF YOU HAVE READ MY FEW AND PREVIOUS POSTS HERE, THEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHY YOU NOW ALSO HAVE I STRIKE IN MY LITTLE BOOK.
I DON'T  CARE IF IT IS BECAUSE, YOU WERE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO TAKE THE TROLL BAIT, OR WHO STARTED THE INSULTS ETC.

"WHEN YOU WERE MORE DRUNK"

                                                     FLOOR

Thanks for your efforts, Floor, but I don't catch what you mean in this post. I understand that you want to replenish trolls like me, but I don't feel like a troll at all: I make errors. In fact, I wasn't drunk yesterday though it looked like I was; so, I rather admit that I was. I'm still learning. What I write in this forum is from my observations in this forum, and this time I admit that I made a mistake in my judgement. I have this "veeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrry bad habit" (sic), that I admit IMMEDIATELY for my wrongdoing whenever I catch myself on such one. Sorry once again. In fact, I don't have my own opinion on Overunity, my effort in this forum is to catch obvious contradictions and/or lack of integrity in other's posts.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 22, 2013, 02:06:40 AM
@TechStuff

Thank you for your post


As to which came first the chicken or the egg (energy or matter) I lean toward the idea that the universe is essentially an energetic event, out of which matter has emerged, not the other way around.  Although matter is returned to energetic form frequently / constantly.

Sub atomic particle are not really matter, in they way that atoms are matter. There are some rather distinct difference in the characteristics of atomic and sub atomic nature.  Hence the name change, electrons are not atoms, they are sub atomic.  By definition any atom is a form of matter, and the atomic level is the limit of matter. Below that are patterns of energy that are called sub atomic "particles" for lack of a better word.  But they are not particles in the sense that a gain of sand is a particle, nor even in the way that a single atom is a particle.

In my view of things, time, at least as we experience it, "begins" at the atomic level.  There may be some thing,  we might call it an analog of time, in which sub atomic nature functions or exists.  Though in my view, again,  I think it is more correct to say that "our time" is the analog of the other.

I ten to think of energy as emerging out of patterns of probability or some analog or type of information, and then matter is formed out of energy.

Of course I could be wrong about this.

                                              thanks again

                                                 Cheers
                                                      floor
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 22, 2013, 03:28:05 AM
@Qwert

Thank you,

 for your thanks for my efforts.

i did not say that I "want to replenish trolls".
I did not say "trolls like you"

You have said that you are "sorry" I would gratefully accept an apology, ( I am looking for peers not judges nor enemies ).  But unless one says also, what an apology is for, it is no apology at all. How else are two people to know that they are understanding one another. 
Please understand that I do wish to embarrass or replenish any.

Your " effort in this forum is to catch contradictions and obvious lack of integrity"  I'll grant you that there may be a time and place for such efforts, and  I may at some time even be grateful for those efforts.  However this is a topic I have started, and I will do any policing that I think is needed.

Please consider, that you may have more to offer the forum than you have given your self credit for.  Please also consider the time it has cost me,- just in making this reply to you.

I will gladly, if you wish it, remove the "strike " against you if you state what your apology is for.


                                            Sincerely
                                                 floor


Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: tinman on September 22, 2013, 03:44:36 AM
@Floor

Your very first word on this topic-!opinion!
The first words in your document-! over unity!

So i give my opinion on overunity,and you insist im off topic?
I do know the ruels of forum conduct very well,and have broken none.
I have explained to Qwert as to what was ment by my post,and things are sorted-no animosity there.

As we all have different ideas as to what overunity is,i was merely asking what OU was to you,so as i could stay on topic.

But anyway-enjoy.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Farmhand on September 22, 2013, 04:14:23 AM
Hi Floor, i've come up with many idea's for free energy but no one is interested because the power density is low but we must begin somewhere. Everyone want to build immediately a 5 Kw device without even understanding what Over Unity is like You, Tinman and I, as well as many others of course.

We already have devices that are cheap to buy simple to make and can make use of waste heat, it's called a Peltier module and using the Seebeck effect we can take some waste heat and produce electricity. Or we can take some extra cold and make electricity, any temperature differential can be used.

No if we take say a 95 % efficient induction motor when at the rated load but get only 80 % with less load and some waste heat is produced the temperature differential can be utilized.

We can sit a plate in the sun and using the shade it makes to keep water cool we can create a temperature difference between the plate in the sun and the water, - free energy.

Basically in my opinion 98% of these claims of "over unity" are for notoriety or for scamming money for for wasting peoples time (distraction) or for furthering an agenda.

Nothing is any more over Unity than a solar panel or a wind turbine in that they harness fee energy from the environment,

And to go one further, no one can show me a truly closed system that does not radiate or emit heat sound or vibration energy, not one singe closed system. I challenge anyone to show me a entirely closed system on the bench. it cannot be done. any completely closed system would be 100% efficient by definition and could neither be under unity or over unity.

The big leveler is when people claim over unity and they get told they have an open system then asked what the efficiency is between our input and utilized or used output.

All systems are open. When I use my small alcohol burner inside in winter it is 100% efficient it heats what I want heated and it also heats the room with waste heat and adds moisture to the air.

How is this idea, we take a bunch of Peltier modules and attach them to the underside of a solar panel with a thermally conductive compound then we use a large heat sink under there in the shade on the other surface of the modules, this should have three effects,

1)  It should cool the panel.
2) It should increase the panel output due to staying cooler.
3) It should produce an electrical output by trying to equalize the temperature differential.

The idea's are endless but most environment energy harnessing will be low power density unless we harness the power of a waterfall or lightning strike.

Basically the energy is free but the tools and equipment cost money, this has always been the case.

I've shown or told so many that are dismissed or misunderstood or get convoluted or are impossible to explain or people purposefully confuse the situation or misrepresent me and my idea's idea's I am kind of burned out. I make threads to explain something and it gets blown to pieces by people wanting to make it about over unity or trying to misrepresent me to say that I am trying to claim over unity or trying to make claims that I am not actually trying to make.

I am all for free speech but the way I see it the repeat OU claimants should be banned and any engineer or trained person seen to be misrepresenting experimenters or deliberately misleading people should also be banned.

When a idea is presented or something explained I see many educated folks rush to deny things and inject a lot of unnecessary complication in order to baffle with the BS and misrepresent what was said or claimed.

I say give them warning then ban them and ban all the perpetual OU claimants as well.

Then maybe we can make some progress towards designing and building things to harness free energy better. Too much extremism on both sides. This is an experiment and discovery forum not a formal physics class. We do not all need to know all the maths ect. If any engineer needed to be an engineer to see that Thanes acceleration under load is BS then they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

It does not always take a trained person to spot an fake and why it is so.

I suspect many have burn out as well. It comes from the endless fake OU claims (extremism) and from the folks denying all and misrepresenting people to defame them (extremism) as well. The folks in the middle have had about enough and the Moderators need to act or all will be lost as far as these forum/boards go.

Too many fake claims and too many smart alecs putting false words into honest experimenters mouths. Begone distractors, and I mean from both extremes.

I debunk stuff myself, and it is necessary due to all the fake claims. Now I feel I must try to prove things to engineers and if they get caught in a tight spot they usually say things like, the amount of frequency difference is minimal and inconsequential bla bla, even though they may have just been proven to be wrong or mistaken. I admit some do retract but rarely.

I say two obvious fake OU claims or links claiming to show OU and Banned. Also two misrepresentations or two instances of putting words in to others mouths to discredit them and banned.

There are many idea's but I am not going to risk sharing because it would likely end up with me spending hours trying to explain and defend myself. I refuse. When the site is rid of extremism I'll share more. Same goes for all sites I use. Many of us are likely holding back due to the sandwich of extremism we are inside of.

Cheers

Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 22, 2013, 04:30:02 AM
@e2matrix

Thanks for the post and the interesting link.

Any thoughts, ideas, theories as to what may be required in order to arrive at an OU device.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 22, 2013, 04:58:36 AM
@FarmHand

Thank you very much for the post

Yes I see the situation as well.

Here we are talking about IT and off topic. I think the moderators should allow topic creators some latitude in a kind of local banning.
because some people are more interested in disruption than communication.

I like your solar electric / thermal  idea, and have no problem with non OU innovations at all.  I understand that the forum is for alternative as well as theoretical energy solutions. I appreciate your attitude as well.

                         thanks again for your input.

                                    Cheers

                                               

Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: infringer on September 22, 2013, 05:49:30 AM
overunity would be hooking up to the wheel work of nature as stated by tesla so many years ago...

We need better understanding of the workings and processes involved both on large and small scales in order to arrive at a point where we can start to have cheap limitless power as by definition power is already limitless it can not be created nor destroyed.

So technically energy is limitless we need systems that will extract energy rather than produce it maybe?

So we need to find out how to tap a source of energy that is flowing at all times that is far more efficient and more frequent then wind or solar but yet a source that is available anywhere at any temperature and if you ask me it needs to be something like ZPE or similar not requiring sunlight which is sometimes available ...

It needs to be a power source that is present even in the darkest regions of space we need the ability to harness it.

I am guessing an energy source is present unknown of that we are just bathing in it is like a gigantic battery that does not lose power for lack of a better analogy....

Something is available weather it is based off of a "time frame as you suspect" or simply a multiverse instead where things are quantum entangled so for each bit of energy that exists always gets put back in a systematic series of events or transformations. There are so many possibles.

I think that it may be possible that we will soon achieve easy and cheap power generation methods with little or no money or fuel required.

It is just crazy that we call things that create power "Generators" when it is known that supposedly energy can not be created nor destroyed to eliminate confusing why did they not call them harnessers or something along that line being that they are generating nothing or even converters it is a strange world out there.

For all we know energy creation or expansion may be possible I dunno but even if it isn't there has to be a way of harnessing the already present energy to keep things moving close to perpetual.

Think about the planets and how long they have maintained an orbit if that is not close enough to what we are trying to achieve here I don't know what is.

What we are looking for is out there what you wish to call it overunity or perpetual like motion there are proofs out there we just happen to be living on one of them which is part of yet a bigger system that is part of yet a bigger system and maybe even part of an even bigger system that we cannot think of nor observe with our current tools and knowledge but there is proof out there and maybe even in there as you suggest!

There are far more secrets left and many are unfolding daily due to computing and technological leaps it is amazing how people cannot assimilate that something is wrong with our so called "LAWS" of physics while they have gotten us this far I believe we are at a point where we are allowing some of these "LAWS" to hold us and progress back a bit more.

It is surely time to thinking outside of the bounds that are defined for us.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: forest on September 22, 2013, 12:40:04 PM
a fish in  ocean or bird on high voltage line  ::)  don't feel the energy around....
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Qwert on September 22, 2013, 01:44:33 PM
A theory says that the Universe is constantly expanding. Another theory says that energy cannot be created. How then the Universe is expanding without creating new energy? To me it is obvious contradiction. Or, if the same amount of energy is expanding the universe? Then we have overunity.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 22, 2013, 07:46:07 PM
@infringer

Thanks
 I appreciate your balanced view.

@forest
Thank you also, for your input.

@Qwert
Thank you for your apology to TinMan,
and also for the stimulating ideas /views in you last post.

@webby
Interesting method,  thanks


                                                sincere thanks to all

                                                    Cheers
                                                          floor
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 23, 2013, 05:05:58 AM
repeat
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: MileHigh on September 23, 2013, 08:15:40 AM
Infringer:

Quote
Think about the planets and how long they have maintained an orbit if that is not close enough to what we are trying to achieve here I don't know what is.

I have read that hundreds of times.  The orbiting planets have nothing whatsoever to do with free energy or over unity.  This is almost a litmus test for people that want to first understand energy, and then try to find free energy.  You have to understand what the planets in orbit represent.

Personally I make a distinction between renewable energy and free energy and it's a no-brainer.  That's another case where there should be no argument.  It actually would be interesting if the forum could be split into two.  That way at least people would be on the same page.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: forest on September 23, 2013, 09:20:45 AM
MileHigh


How can you explain the constant speed of rotation of planets ?
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: MileHigh on September 23, 2013, 12:58:11 PM
The planets are in a frictionless environment.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: forest on September 23, 2013, 03:36:24 PM
The planets are in a frictionless environment.


HA ! So you think that there is no interactions between planets ? Actually every change in Earth position makes a friction against the actual planets conjugation.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: tagor on September 23, 2013, 05:20:59 PM
The planets are in a frictionless environment.

no !! because of the high tide and the low tide with the influence of the moon and the sun
so the speed rotation  of the earth decrease
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 23, 2013, 06:03:00 PM
@ all readers

Greetings fellow earthlings
    I am floor this is MY topic.

This particular topic on the OU forum ---" Over Unity (how to get there)" Is some thing of an experiment on my part.
I want to hear, peoples ideas on over unity (how to get there).

The concept is simply to provide a space at the OU forum for people to post their ideas or strategies towards that goal.

THIS TOPIC SPACE IN  IT'S SELF IS AN EXPERIMENT.
Different.

While nearly all of the rest of the OU forum is for "discussion" this tiny space is NOT  for discussion. 
Instead it is :

1.  A place Just to ONLY LISTEN to others ideas.
2.  A place to post ideas and strategies. preferably ones OWN.
3.  Not a debate forum.
3.  NOT a place for people to COMMENT upon other peoples posts / views / ideas, that is to say it is not a place to either agree or
disagree with other peoples posts. Don't do it ! here.
4.  NOT a billboard for people to say just any thing. the topic is very specific, even narrow.
5.  NOT a place a place that is very interesting If you are a TROLL.
6. Not a place for comment upon the possibility of  OU it's self, or it's definition etc..
7. Exceptions: 1. Complements or silence,  thanks you or silence -----  are the only responses acceptable. 
                       2. If some one is not observing / is unaware of the way it is in this "place" I will inform them, do not do this your self
                          unless it is by copying and pasting this as a quote.
                       3. You may post Ideas to floor directly on modifying  this experiment, please don't do this until after you have participated
                           for at least 1 week. I probably wont respond except with a complement, thank you, or silence.

Dazzell  us each other



Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: tinman on September 24, 2013, 04:30:56 AM
OVERUNITY (how to get there)

Step 1 : Dont put the 10 commandments apon potential posters.
Step 2 : Put the little strike book away-it sounds to headmaster-high school.
Step 3 : Allow people to post there thought's(as asked),without heavy policing,and threats of banning.
Step 4 : Allow others to comment on potential thought's,as brainstorming can lead to great result's.
Step 5 :-Quote: I probably wont respond except with a complement, thank you, or silence.
The above sounds bad.Seems like one just wants to sit back,and wait for others to come up with all the good idea's-kinda troll like.
Step 6 : Know what the destination actualy is,befor trying to get there.

And Step 7: Exspect a quite thread,as steps 1 to 4 and step 6 are not in place,and only step 5 exist.

The above are my thoughts on the very first steps to getting to overunity.

Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: forest on September 24, 2013, 08:17:55 AM
OVERUNITY (how to get there) - in 3 steps instead of 10


1 . Get 100 billion $
2  Find a serious inventor with ready device
3  Buy it.


Congratulations. You have now OVERUNITY.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Low-Q on September 24, 2013, 01:50:43 PM
MileHigh


How can you explain the constant speed of rotation of planets ?
The rotation isn't constant. The environment isn't frictionless. Any gravitational pull will deform a planet a tiny bit. And as it rotates, that deformation will twist and turn on the planets mass, and creates heat. That heat is taken from the planets kinetic energy - thus the kinetic energy will drop. Look at some moons in the outer solar system. They are present in a very cold environment, but the mass inside is still very hot due to the gravitational pull from the planets like Jupiter and Saturn.


Our moon is rotating at the same rate as the orbit, so there is not produced heat due to internal friction of the moon. However, our moon is suffering from loss because the Earth is affected mechanicly by the Moons orbit. And when the moon encounter friction, it will heat up a tiny bit anyways and loose kinetic energy. "Lucky" for us, the moon is moving away from us faster than the friction can slow it down enough to make the moon fall into earth.



Vidar
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: forest on September 24, 2013, 08:16:25 PM
The rotation isn't constant. The environment isn't frictionless. Any gravitational pull will deform a planet a tiny bit. And as it rotates, that deformation will twist and turn on the planets mass, and creates heat. That heat is taken from the planets kinetic energy - thus the kinetic energy will drop. Look at some moons in the outer solar system. They are present in a very cold environment, but the mass inside is still very hot due to the gravitational pull from the planets like Jupiter and Saturn.


Our moon is rotating at the same rate as the orbit, so there is not produced heat due to internal friction of the moon. However, our moon is suffering from loss because the Earth is affected mechanicly by the Moons orbit. And when the moon encounter friction, it will heat up a tiny bit anyways and loose kinetic energy. "Lucky" for us, the moon is moving away from us faster than the friction can slow it down enough to make the moon fall into earth.



Vidar


Well....are you stating that every day Earth is slowing down but it is very minute change and we cannot register it ? Hard to believe. I believe there is simpler explanation of constant speed of Earth.


P.S. How do you know moon is rotating ?
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 24, 2013, 11:09:13 PM
@ all readers

Greetings fellow earthlings
    I am floor this is MY topic.

This particular topic on the OU forum ---" Over Unity (how to get there)" Is some thing of an experiment on my part.
I want to hear, peoples ideas on over unity (how to get there).

The concept is simply to provide a space at the OU forum for people to post their ideas or strategies towards that goal.

THIS TOPIC SPACE IN  IT'S SELF IS AN EXPERIMENT.
Different.

While nearly all of the rest of the OU forum is for "discussion" this tiny space is NOT  for discussion. 
Instead it is :

1.  A place Just to ONLY LISTEN to others ideas.
2.  A place to post ideas and strategies. preferably ones OWN.
3.  Not a debate forum.
3.  NOT a place for people to COMMENT upon other peoples posts / views / ideas, that is to say it is not a place to either agree or
disagree with other peoples posts. Don't do it ! here.
4.  NOT a billboard for people to say just any thing. the topic is very specific, even narrow.
5.  NOT a place a place that is very interesting If you are a TROLL.
6. Not a place for comment upon the possibility of  OU it's self, or it's definition etc..
7. Exceptions: 1. Complements or silence,  thanks you or silence -----  are the only responses acceptable. 
                       2. If some one is not observing / is unaware of the way it is in this "place" I will inform them, do not do this your self
                          unless it is by copying and pasting this as a quote.
                       3. You may post Ideas to floor directly on modifying  this experiment, please don't do this until after you have participated
                           for at least 1 week. I probably wont respond except with a complement, thank you, or silence.

Dazzell  us each other
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: forest on September 25, 2013, 08:16:25 AM
Ok, How can you ONLY LISTEN ?  :o
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on September 25, 2013, 10:26:45 AM
Hi everyone day good ;D


For me to get there, there should have an OVER


OR ELSE it should be called UNDERUNITY.  ;D


For me it is a FREE CYCLE, AND TO REACH A POINT FROM A POINT I THINK I NEED A BICYCLE. The price is i made my self strong and i have reach a certain point of difference.  ;D


AND THAT'S OVERUNITY  8)
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on September 25, 2013, 04:35:48 PM
Humorous:) I'm still smiling.
 

                            Gracius senor
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Tusk on December 11, 2013, 09:38:36 AM
I see energy as just another model rather than reality; say we are sitting watching a statue (perhaps we are bored?) and a steel ball hurtles through our frame of reference colliding with the statue, smashing it to pieces (it's a strange world, you never know) we might say that the energy of the ball transferred to the statue which then converted it into sound (motion of air) heat (motion of atoms and molecules) and an apparent chaotic motion of the now fragmented statue. Personally I would say that a body in motion interacted with another body which resulted in a different motion.

If we calculated all the motion prior to the interaction, and all the motion post interaction we should arrive at the same value; this would be in accordance with both CoM and CoE.

If we could find a way for mass to interact in such a way that more motion resulted than predicted by CoE we could engineer a device to exploit the phenomenon and create an OU system potentially capable of solving many of our energy and pollution issues. I say more motion than predicted by CoE rather than CoM because it seems to me that momentum is not based on a model but on observation of the universe as it appears to be, whereas (to me) CoE is based on a model (energy) rather than reality.

Furthermore, at least in regard to kinetic energy, the literature states :   

 
Quote
the kinetic energy of an object depends on the relationship between the object and the observer's frame of reference. Thus, the kinetic energy of an object is not invariant.

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy


'not invariant.' I think that means 'variant', but the non-double negative probably stuck in their mouths. So possibly a device which causes a previously unknown or misunderstood interaction between different frames of reference might be worth a look.

I could shamelessly link to my own such device here, but that might be considered a misuse of the thread. Therefore in conclusion, anyone claiming that OU is impossible had better measure their knowledge and intellect against the complexity of the universe then at least leave the door open to the possibility of a higher level above their own perception.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on December 11, 2013, 07:34:31 PM
@Tusk

          thanks, post a link is ok
                                 

                                             thanks again
                                                        floor
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Tusk on December 12, 2013, 12:31:47 AM
Thank you floor, and since it is allowed I'll post two links; the first to a little foray into the realm of perception (which unfortunately most members found overly confronting) and the second to the device itself:

http://www.overunity.com/13079/the-pendulum-bias-paradox-experiment/#.UqjzjSe-g_c (http://www.overunity.com/13079/the-pendulum-bias-paradox-experiment/#.UqjzjSe-g_c)

http://www.overunity.com/13102/the-paradox-engine/#.Uqjytie-g_c (http://www.overunity.com/13102/the-paradox-engine/#.Uqjytie-g_c)

If I might add; it must always have been difficult to share new knowledge, history certainly suggests so. I assume that the basic psychology of our species doesn't change that much over time, and it seems relevant to this topic that once an individual gains confidence in their perception of reality it's going to be an uphill battle for anyone attempting to modify it. Therefore one aspect of the 'how to get there' solution must surely involve human psychology, probably with a focus on cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Floor on December 12, 2013, 04:57:10 PM
@Tusk
                     
                Thanks
                   Awesome post

                                   floor
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: profitis on December 13, 2013, 12:10:48 AM
tusk has hit the nail square on the head there.what do we really know.what do we reeeaaally know.what IS to know in the first place.gotta ask oneself these questions.
Title: Re: Over Unity (how to get there}
Post by: Tusk on December 13, 2013, 03:19:48 AM
Thanks Floor, profitis. I should probably quit while ahead, experience shows that if I stay on stage too long everyone ends up throwing stuff  :o  Oh well, in for a penny....   

Here's my view on the crux of this issue, in particular the forum problem, which after all is the probable launchpad for potentially viable concepts. We can sort the human race any number of ways, one useful dichotomy for us might be pro and anti OU. It's all very well having a balanced discussion but difficult to move beyond ridicule when the other team recognises no bounds (and may even be earning their living doing so - not saying they are, but it's a possibility).

Another cut might be familiarity with the subject itself; not much point trying to explain an 'outside the box' physics solution to someone who doesn't understand much of what's 'inside the box'. Although I'd rather talk to them than the first lot, provided they keep an open mind and are genuinely trying to grasp the material.

So, there might be a few more but I assume that you get the picture. The obvious solution then, is for a small group of members here to set up another forum; not a replacement for this one, more of a safe house for further discussion away from the trolls, shills and casual onlookers. The group could expand membership selectively, based on the posting history of candidates from this forum (and even other similar forums). Such candidates would receive an invitation rather than apply, and this would ensure that the group maintained an acceptable level of honest interest as opposed to hostile disinterest.

Naturally one of the group (with the appropriate knowledge, skills and resources) would need to volunteer their time and effort to host the forum. Perhaps the others could make a small donation towards the costs involved - I would certainly be up for that. While the working principle of the group would be 'round table', the host would exercise the will of the group in regards to how the forum was run. Anyone hostile to the group and intent on gaining membership for nefarious purposes would need to generate a positive posting history here (or on another forum) with only the chance of selection; a somewhat counter productive exercise IMHO. And win - win for the group, since they would need to maintain that disguise else find themselves quickly exposed and ejected.

The above idea, in principle, could provide a positive and friendly environment for the selection of concepts with real potential and their further discussion and advancement, away from the background noise of general disbelief and the spoiling attacks of those who are, shall we say, philosophically opposed to anything good. And since this is Floor's thread, if he was willing and able to act as the host for such an enterprise I think that would be an excellent beginning.

As for myself, I'd be content if my own thesis (the Paradox Engine) were accepted for further discussion on such a forum, even failing my own personal admittance to the group; in fact, now that I look at it from that perspective, generally when a concept is selected for discussion the author should probably have limited access (rather than full membership) in order to participate and offer supportive information.