Here's one powered with 12v ac

Well if you can change the subject then I can change the subject.  You will get a "charge" out of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe5FgFOkxkI

Are we having a productive "debate" now?

your post had nothing to do with magnetic and electric fields, mine well I know pseudoscience, like I said wasting my time.
later
dave

Dave45:

Focus..... Focus....

Quoting you:

For reference, here is the example from the earlier posting:  We were talking about an example were there were interacting fields from two wires with DC current going through them.  In that case there will be places in the 3D field where there is no magnetic field and by definition there is no electric field.

Where is the electric field in this example Dave?  Please state your proof that I am wrong.

Its like me saying there's a nose on your face and your saying there isnt, and the whole time your looking right at it.
past my bedtime
later

Should we just dismiss the ice formations in Daves Ice projects?  If we had 2 containers with the same coils filled with water, and we power one coil and not power the other, and if in the end, the powered coil in ice has spiral formations and the unpowered coil doe not, is it still insignificant? Are we not curious as to what is causing these distortions in the ice due to an energized coil? If not, then why not?

Mags

Perhaps just a few closing thoughts on on some of the topics.

The analysis of the toroid using Ampere's Law was based on an "air" toroid.  Of course that's the hardest one to set up to not emanate any magnetic field and you need "perfect" symmetry in your coil windings.  Once you add a high-permeability core to the inside of the toroid then things get a lot easier.  The core is going to channel the magnetic flux and offer a much "easier" path than the free space outside the core.  So a decently wound toroidal coil around a toroidal core will produce a near near zero field outside the toroid.  Even just doing a partial wind (totally broken symmetry) and leaving a lot of the core bare will still barely emanate a magnetic field to the outside free space.  The point is to understand the harder problem first, and appreciate the fact that even without a core the toroid will not emanate much of a magnetic field.  And for the sake of completeness note that the analysis that was done for the air core toroidal coil was only done in the horizontal plane of the toroid that cuts it in two like a bagel.  The analysis doesn't say anything about what the magnetic field looks like outside of the center plane of the air toroid.

Also, note that I mentioned the "secondary" magnetic field.  So you draw a different Amperian loop.  This one is at a right angle to the plane of the toroid and it cuts right through the center of the doughnut and encircles the tube of the toroid.  That Amperian loop sees current so you know that there is a secondary magnetic field through the doughnut hole of the toroid.

I may have been able to decipher Dave45's thinking.  Dave45 please comment to correct me if I am wrong.  I will take a chance and state this.  He may have seen the thought experiment with the wires with DC current and just instantly related it to his experiments with coils in ice.  So perhaps he just superimposed what he thinks his coil and ice experiments were telling him and "forced" the same conclusions on my thought experiment?  That's kind of like a bull in a China shop.  The two things are not related at all.  Here is another hypothetical.  Dave45 stated that there is no magnetic field around one of his setups.  Let's take the example of the photograph of the vertical glass cylinder with the vertical coil embedded in ice.  If you run DC current through the coil and move a horizontal hand-held compass around the vertical glass cylinder there is a good chance that you could get thrown off and not detect the magnetic field generated by the coil!  You would have to lay the glass ice cylinder out horizontally to measure the magnetic field.  You also have to be sure you are running enough current through the coil so that the magnetic field generated by the coil generates a magnetic bubble in the Earth's magnetic field.  Dave45 offers up next to zero information so I am just speculating.

MileHigh

Just to clarify I checked the coil for a magnetic field before I put it in water, horizontal, no magnetic field.
The coil was powered with 12v dc using an automotive bulb pulling 2 amps.
Iv froze alot of coils using different types of water, bottled drinking water works best for clarity.
Something I found strange if the bulb is placed after the coil, on the pos side it will kill the power supply, its like the coil draws on the supply, the bulb acts as a limiter (resistor) keeping the coil from pulling on the supply, very strange. I killed three or four power supply's before I found this out.
If the coil is placed horizontal in the ice it distorts the fields, the earth has an effect on a coil, all coils in your experiments should be in a vertical position so the fields are not distorted, if you remember the TPU would not work if positioned wrong this is because of the distorted fields, that and the TPU draws energy in one end and passes it out the other.
Alot can be learned by placing coils in water and freezing them, it takes about 24 hours for one to freeze solid but it you check the cell about every hour you may see some interesting results.

The coil winding I showed, not this specific one, but one like it.
The core was rusted and the rust spread and settled in the bottom of the container, the coil spun the water and cleared the rust in the bottom this was at about five or six inches from the coil, do you realize how much force it took to spin the cold water, this was a strong spinning field.

This post was posted in haste Im kindof in a hurry
later
dave