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Author Topic: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market  (Read 22765 times)

Offline ramset

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Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« on: September 10, 2013, 02:40:14 PM »
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 11:26:19 PM by ramset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Paul-R

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2013, 04:40:04 PM »
Can someone describe how it works without using wonk talk like "disinverted metaphysics"?

Offline ramset

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 04:50:22 PM »
TinMan says its a pulse motor,I suppose we will need a bit more info on that ceiling fan he shows running on two watts[??} at the 10 minute mark [approx] Keppe claims it takes 100 watts from the Mains to do the same work with a conventional ceiling Fan?
 
Goes on to say he can run 10 ceiling fans off one 20 watt solar panel for as long as the sunshines !

That will get My attention!!
 
The Fan specs [BLADE SPEC AND RPM}will be sought for a load test and I am quite certain some hard data will be forth coming.........
 
Thx
Chet
 
 
 
 

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 04:50:22 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline tinman

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2013, 04:57:10 PM »
Can someone describe how it works without using wonk talk like "disinverted metaphysics"?
Simple terms
You put power in,and fan turns=electric motor.

A little more detail.
Haveing now seen the motor configuration (on pesn),it is a cross between a newman and bendini motor-nothing more.They then return the inductive kickback into the P/in-something we have been doing on my forum for year's.

The title for this thread is not quite right,as this in no way is an exotic product.
What it is,is an over rated pulse motor,designed to decieve the public as to its efficiency.

The wheels have begun to turn,and it will become clear soon enough ,as to what they realy have.

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 06:02:19 PM »

The wheels have begun to turn,and it will become clear soon enough ,as to what they realy have.
Thanks for the explanation. If their patent overlaps the Bedini, JB will be on their case soon enough.

How is it that these people cannot put the unit on a bench and run it into a prony brake, tell us what the power in is and what the power out is?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 06:02:19 PM »
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Offline markdansie

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2013, 06:22:14 PM »
The Keppe Challenge is on Tinman VS Keppe lol
http://revolution-green.com/2013/09/10/keppe-fan-challenge/


The Keppe fan is joke
Mark






Offline ramset

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2013, 06:30:25 PM »
Mark
Good of you to pick up that challenge,Have you gotten all the Tech Data on the blades
and MFG info on their fan?
 
Should not be to hard to get from Sterling ,I believe he does admit to a "piece" of the action here?
 
Thanks again
Chet
 
 

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2013, 06:30:25 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2013, 08:05:37 PM »
Well, all I can say at this point is that Keppe has been around a long time with his pulse motors. The demo in the video is about as crude as you can get, and is even using the reed switch which will not survive long.

I can confirm that the only comparable fan we have in the house, a "box fan", draws about 100 W when it is in the high-speed mode. We have a few of the classic Hunter high-quality ceiling fans about the place, let me crawl up into the attic and get a current draw measurement on one of them. I'll report back later on.

The power (watts) dissipation of a fan blade goes as some power (exponent) of the RPM, like the cube or fourth power or something like that, IIRC, so you have to be very careful about your RPM measurements because a small change in RPM can mean a big change in power dissipation for the same fan blade.


Offline Farmhand

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2013, 08:57:58 PM »
Yes it is fairly Easy to beat the efficiency of a purchased regular fan, my own pulse motor does it no problem, and mine is almost completely hand made.
Tinsel is right too with fan blades it takes a lot more energy to push a blade from say 1500 rpm to 1600 rpm than it does to push it from 1400 rpm to 1500 rpm.

The same blade should be used and the fan I compare against has a smaller blade and pushes less air at the same rpm than the one I cut down for my motor, due to the design of my motor it can only compare small blades. At some loads it can be extremely efficient and run in pulse mode with flyback returned to the lagging phase of the resonant charging coil to loop the released inductive energy or to recharge another battery.

I only got so far to build a first of it's kind prototype, then got quite ill, when I get time I will be building a much more exact and practical build of the same two phases from one design. The idea is to run it in the ideal rpm range for good efficiency but use more coils for the next build and designed for a certain frequency range that I want. The next one I want to run from rectified 240v from the wall if possible.

I ended up with a large cap bank dumped by sensed voltage to a picaxe chip through a mosfet to a battery which can give multi amp pulsations which is nothing new.

Even though I am returning the flyback to the input without a charge battery, it goes back to a capacitor not the battery and is fed to the lagging coil it is designed to still produce a higher than supply discharge potential, the flyback is not tied to the supply rail.

Wave form with the return in use. Blue is the mosfet drain yellow is the capacitor
the charging coil charges and the mosfet switches the energy from through the coil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrlL099cz2Q

Demo with three loads at efficent speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BanKGAVa9SQ

The Keppe pulse motors do not impress me all that much either.

Cheers
..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2013, 08:57:58 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 11:52:41 PM »
Here is the link to ""The worlds first Exotic product to market""
 
http://pesn.com/2013/09/06/9602368_4x-efficient_Keppe-Motor_ceiling-fan_featured_at_China-Sourcing-Fair/

thx
Chet

Offline markdansie

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 02:10:16 AM »
Any efficiency gains are a good thing, so I wish them all the best on the ceiling fan. However I do not believe there comparisons to other manufacturers. Would be good to get one and put it side by side with the right measuring protocals.
Kind Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 02:10:16 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 02:23:59 AM »
Interesting article Chet.A quote from that article
Quote: also due to its exclusive and aerodynamic fan blades.

Wonder how a standard celling fan would go with there exclusive blade.
Lets compare apple's to oranges,and say our apple taste better than the orange.

Wonder how this chick would have went,with a ceiling fan doing 200 RPM plus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u8trTxyf8A

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 02:55:31 AM »
This whole Keppe thing brings out my very cynical side.

Let's start off with brilliant Mark E's comments from the same PESN article:

>>>>>>>>>>>.

If the motor powering this fan is similar in design to the motor that powers their desktop fan, then there is no remarkable technology.  Those who remember the articles on the desktop fan may recall Keppe's claims that the fan design resulted from their new "disinverted physics", and operated on principles of resonance.  Analysis of that design established that it is just a DC pulse motor that uses an optical commutator.  There is no evidence of a new physics: inverted, disinverted, or otherwise.  The fan motor and drive are not particularly efficient.  The drive uses an optical interrupter switch to control when the motor winding is energized.  The motor winding is energized in only one direction attracting the one pole of the rotor magnet and opposing the other.  The result is that the motor only does work during less than half of a rotation and most of each rotation inertial carries the fan blades around.  However because of a poor design, the coil current never goes to zero and for half of each rotation the coil actually produces counter torque.  The circuit block responsible for this is labeled "Dissipative Flux Reset" in the block diagram that follows.  That particular circuit form goes back to at a circa 1980 application note from International Rectifier.  Other inefficiency results from the use of a power resistor as a way of dropping power to the motor coil to lower the speed.  That method would not work if the motor operated on a principle of resonance as claimed by Keppe.  The dropping resistor works because for a given line input voltage: the motor torque versus speed is a monotonically declining curve.  The motor operates at the speed where that curve intersects the increasing torque versus speed function of the fan blades churning through air.  Keppe represented that the desk fan was the result of a decade of research.  the last state of the design as I saw it had multiple very serious safety flaws. So, what we have seen from Keppe before is a very mediocre design wrapped in creative, but meaningless terminology.   Without specific evidence of actual measured performance I do not expect the ceiling fan to have deviated significantly from the desk fan design that Keppe said took them 10 years to develop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Sterling, Keppe are not able to demonstrate high torque or quick start-up compared to other DC motors.  Nor did they even try during that demonstration.  What they did was basically a straw man comparison.  They picked as their straw man a fan powered by a very cheap single phase AC induction motor.  If there is a scourge in motors it is the single phase induction motor.  They are found everywhere because they are incredibly cheap to build. They have been phased out of larger motor powered appliances like refrigerators and washing machines by energy efficiency regulations.  You can still find them sucking down juice in things like cheap furnace blower motors.
I know you like these guys and the way that they run their community. Whatever they are doing with their community does not change the science of their very mediocre, and the last time I saw it, very unsafe motor design.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Sterling without any statement of measured or even claimed values "the most efficient ones available" doesn't mean anything.  I have surveyed some fan efficiencies and found various units from as low as 12 cfm/W to as high as the Aeratron that Dangus noted at 696 cfm/W.  As a point of reference: Hunter which is a very big ceiling fan manufacturer only claims up to 176 cfm/W, while others like Emerson Electric basically do double that. Home Depot advertises Gossamer fans as very high efficiency, but they top out about 200 cfm/W.  And as noted, Dangus found the Aeratrons that are 4X the Hunter, 3.5X Home Depot, and 2X the Emerson Electric product because they use really good airfoils.
In a fan the efficiency is as much a function of the airfoil design and the number of airfoils as it is the motor.  If someone wants to know about the motor performance they need to see torque and power curves for the motor.  If someone wants to compare fans as black boxes, then they need to see airflow volume and power under some stated conditions of temperature, humidity, and static pressure drop.  Keppe does not provide these measures.
   

   

Offline tinman

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 03:17:28 AM »
A quote from PES

PES has a business relationship with the Keppe Motor group, and stands to benefit from their success.

Well,i guess that this mean's Sterling will not answer my challenge.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Keppe is headed to the big show, First exotic product to market
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 03:21:10 AM »
Quote
They will be able to manufacture 500,000 fans per month, starting with 100,000 per month. They plan to ship the first containers in November, so they will arrive on December 15 in Brazil.

I wish them luck but the above statement could just be meaningless marketingese.  Did they really line up huge customers like retail chains (Walmart?) to sell these fans to?

Quote
She is pleased about this milestone, and has long envisioned the Keppe motor showing the world that there is a very significant way to improve technology by being willing to fundamentally redesign things in a way that is in harmony with nature, which is what gave rise to the Keppe motor.

There is a web site called cultwatch.com and all that I can say is don't get sucked into the Keppe cult!

Quote
STOP has been changing lives through their Trilogical Analysis for nearly five decades. I have seen the results of their work by visiting their group in Brazil twice now, coming away deeply impressed each time. Now they are at the beginning stages of changing technology through their work of turning what is up-side-down, right side up.
 
 They are convinced that the principles of Trilogy can be applied to all things to produce better outcomes. While I was there last time, I saw evidence of how they turned a grade school around. And they continue to turn an entire town around in Cambuquira, where they are manufacturing the smaller Keppe motor fans and where they have a hotel that they purchased and rejuvenated.

Cult alert!  Run for the hills!

Quote
But at the same time, it is likely that the reason it is so "efficient" is because it is actually harvesting energy from the wheelwork of nature (one of the co-inventors, Cesar Soos compares it to a heartbeat), to give it a boost, which looks like efficiency, but may actually be generator-like in nature.

Sterling's Wheelwork cult meets the Keppe cult!

Quote
So while the ceiling fan is pulling 10 Watts from the wall, it may be pulling some from the wheelwork of nature in order to achieve the work and performance that it does.

This is the "Cult of Sterling" forcing his BS down the Keppe group's throat.  It's pathetic.... Sterling sees these people and practically tries to force claims of over unity onto the fan.  Meanwhile the Keppe people just want to "play" Sterling and to their surprise Sterling wants so much to be played that he ends up playing the Keppe people.

Quote
She also said that fairly soon they are going to be looking a combining the Keppe motor technology with other conventional and exotic free energy technologies, such as hydro and LENR. The Keppe researchers are also going to be looking at the possibility that magnet motors might play a role in correcting radioactivity pollution. The scientific model of Dr. Keppe, which gave rise to the Keppe motor, predicts that this will be the case. "Magnetic fields have the tendency to correct the energetic pollution of the environment," Dr. Claudia said.

Pure unadulterated BS.  Dr. Claudia and other Keppe drones figured Sterling out after a short while and then just fed him the BS that he wanted to hear.  However, like I said, it's possible to argue that Sterling is intense enough that the "positive feedback" from Sterling was so strong such that in a way, Sterling ended up playing them.  The woman is talking pure crap and she knows it's pure crap and she knows that Sterling wants to hear it.

I will repeat advice that I gave on PESN many months ago about the Keppe group.  Run for the f*cking hills as fast as you can.

When no outsiders are around at Keppe central, I am willing to bet you that ultimately the bottom line is all that counts for them - create some fake New Age/free energy buzz and try to sell your fan to people at ridiculous prices.  This is all an exercise to create a fake New Age "boutique" fan as a guise to make money for the cult.

It really is that bad.

MileHigh
 

 

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