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Author Topic: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte  (Read 43659 times)

Offline norman6538

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2013, 01:46:27 PM »
Butch you have demonstrated the principles of turning permanent magnets off and on and THAT IS GREAT but that is worth nothing unless they can do  net work beyond the switching work required. So now you need to prove that you have net work done. The easiest way to do that with no arguments is to for example using inch pounds instead of foot pounds

1. take 1 lb of weight on a string and have it move one of your principle embodiments to turn on a magnetic field (switching work used here) which in turn
2. moves another weight a distance that is greater than the 1lb weight moved. Or if the distance is less then the weight could be correspondingly more but greater than  1 inch pound of work used to switch the magnet on or off.

And that would be exciting
BUT then you need to be able to reverse that (ie reset) using the net gained work to make a
repeatable cycle. So if 1lb moves 1 inch and lifts 5 lbs 1/2  inch you have now have a net work
available of 1.5 inch lb. to do the reset of the 1lb mover.
 
Had I been able to do the above test everyone would have seen the video by now.

You have the embodiments, now do the simple tests and publish the results.
But you may not use a hand except to start the process because the hand is not measurable.

An example of the reset problem would be using a magnet on a matchbox car that is moved with a small weight which then knocks over a domino doing some lifting which knocks over a larger domino and so on but then how do you reset all of that to repeat the cycle without some outside power?

Norman
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 05:06:42 PM by norman6538 »

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Offline tim123

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2013, 08:21:20 PM »
Hi Bruce :)
  I've been thinking about how to make use of your idea, and attached is a diagram of a piston motor that perhaps could work using the principle.

It's just a schematic...
 - Would probably not want iron below the piston?
 - Would need magnets on the other side too - so the flux flows through the iron (I think)
 - Would need a pendulum magnet on both sides (connected via a shaft)

Regards
Tim

PS - To be quite honest, I don't know if it would work better with magnets both sides or not... It may be worse... Opposing magnets each side maybe?

Bruce, have you tested these 3 arrangements against each other?
 - single magnets on one side
 - attracting magnets through the metal
 - repelling magnets " " "

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #77 on: September 24, 2013, 02:08:10 PM »
Hi Bruce :)
  I've been thinking about how to make use of your idea, and attached is a diagram of a piston motor that perhaps could work using the principle.

It's just a schematic...
 - Would probably not want iron below the piston?
 - Would need magnets on the other side too - so the flux flows through the iron (I think)
 - Would need a pendulum magnet on both sides (connected via a shaft)

Regards
Tim

PS - To be quite honest, I don't know if it would work better with magnets both sides or not... It may be worse... Opposing magnets each side maybe?

Bruce, have you tested these 3 arrangements against each other?
 - single magnets on one side
 - attracting magnets through the metal
 - repelling magnets " " "
The problem occours when the piston isn't there, leaving an air gap. The moving magnet will therfor resist the exit of the block in order to move into the air gap and pull the piston back in.


Vidar

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #77 on: September 24, 2013, 02:08:10 PM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #78 on: September 24, 2013, 03:43:57 PM »
The problem occours when the piston isn't there, leaving an air gap. The moving magnet will therfor resist the exit of the block in order to move into the air gap and pull the piston back in.

Vidar

Hi Vidar :)
  I think, according to my interpretation of Bruce's idea, that:
 - the piston should be drawn inwards when the moving magnet is over the block.
 - and should move outwards when the moving magnet is over the piston.
 - the piston throw must be short enough so it doesn't move past the moving magnet - so the magnet is always over steel.

It's just an idea though...

Regards
Tim

Offline gammarayburst

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Try this at home, it's works
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2013, 01:17:03 AM »
See attached

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Try this at home, it's works
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2013, 01:17:03 AM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2013, 03:10:12 AM »
Excellent drawing to show the concept but the validation will be in the measurements of the moved magnet and the work gained from the attraction. I used the undercarriage from a matchbox car for the moving magnet and measured the weight x distance to get the work required and compared that to the work done from the attraction......
If the work done from the attraction is greater than the work required to move the magnet
then you will be very famous Butch. But the next bugaboo is to reset the mechanism so the movement can be repeated...
I'll be very busy for a week and somewhat out of contact.
Good luck all.

Norman

Offline lumen

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2013, 05:49:31 AM »
Yes, if everything works as shown, that could already be a gravity wheel.

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2013, 05:49:31 AM »
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Offline gammarayburst

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2013, 02:17:52 PM »
Hi Bruce :)
  I've been thinking about how to make use of your idea, and attached is a diagram of a piston motor that perhaps could work using the principle.

It's just a schematic...
 - Would probably not want iron below the piston?
 - Would need magnets on the other side too - so the flux flows through the iron (I think)
 - Would need a pendulum magnet on both sides (connected via a shaft)

Regards
Tim

PS - To be quite honest, I don't know if it would work better with magnets both sides or not... It may be worse... Opposing magnets each side maybe?

Bruce, have you tested these 3 arrangements against each other?
 - single magnets on one side
 - attracting magnets through the metal
 - repelling magnets " " "
Tim, I need a better drawing with a couple of more views. I'm having trouble seeing exactly how it is configured. Thanks, Butch

Offline gammarayburst

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New additional way to configure Pseudo Solid principle
« Reply #83 on: September 26, 2013, 04:41:41 PM »
Now put a magnet working in attraction on a rotor in the middle of this and it will follow the bulge.
Butch
See attached

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New additional way to configure Pseudo Solid principle
« Reply #83 on: September 26, 2013, 04:41:41 PM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #84 on: September 26, 2013, 07:22:09 PM »
Hi Butch, (soz abt the name confusion) more diagrams attached. Hopefully will clarify what I'm thinking...
 - psolid-3.gif - A side view of the above design.
 - psolid-4.gif - Front view. A diagram showing the pendulum & piston movement.

Notes:
 - I've only got the one central iron block, with opposing magnets either side. It's kinda the opposite of how you put the magnets between 2 blocks.
 - However, there could be an iron outer-casing to balance the forces on the moving magnets on the pendulum.
 - I used a pendulum just as an example. It would need to be a rotating disc in a real machine.
 - In a real machine you'd probably want to have 4 or more inward facing pistons, and a central crank, with the moving magnets on a rotating disc - attached to the crank.
 - The piston should never touch the block.
 - The piston should not go out so far that it exposes the pendulum magnet
 - Webby (in another thread) told me that opposing fields will bring the piston in with more force. I tested it, and it's true.
 - I *assume* that putting opposing fields through the piston will cause it to exit the block. It's a reasonably safe assumption I think.

Regards
Tim

PS: In your design above - I think the rotor magnets might prevent the blocks from returning to their original positions. As the rotor magnet will be closer - and presumably facing the block - it could probably overpower the other magnet...?


Offline tim123

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #85 on: September 26, 2013, 07:41:39 PM »
Another idea: Why not use attraction to bring the piston in even harder...

 - In this diagram - the pendulum has 2 sets of magnets.
 - When the 'S' magnets are over the piston - it's attracted into the block with more force than with no magnet...
 - When the 'N' magnets are over the piston - it's repelled from the block as before.

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #85 on: September 26, 2013, 07:41:39 PM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2013, 08:10:14 PM »
Here's a diagram showing how I imagine a real engine might be configured to use the effect...

It's an 8 cylinder engine. Central crank. Pistons & conrods...

The rotor isn't shown - just its magnets. The principle of operation is as I've described before.

I hope it's clear... :)

Offline gammarayburst

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I will post operational sequence tomorrow, very busy now
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2013, 05:47:02 PM »
See attached

Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: New additional way to configure Pseudo Solid principle
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2013, 12:54:14 AM »
Now put a magnet working in attraction on a rotor in the middle of this and it will follow the bulge.
Butch
See attached

I'm struggling to see how this configuration results in any net torque. All that will happen is that the rotor will move to the point of least potential and then stop. No on-going rotation is possible

Offline Floor

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2013, 08:15:29 PM »
@GammaRayBurst

I have a question, that I am not sure if you know the answer to or not.

Please see the attached file "PsuSol3.JPEG" drawings and question.

                                              Cheers
                                                       floor

 

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