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Author Topic: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte  (Read 43762 times)

Offline gammarayburst

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2013, 04:39:57 AM »
Norman, you should try testing this with metal on both ends of the magnet so that friction is taken out of the equation. So forces on the magnet are equal but opposite and the magnet is in a floating state. I feel 90% or more of what your having to overcome is friction or rolling resistance due to the car being pulled down so hard to the metal. I wonder if the best way to test this might be the way they test to find the mass of something by eliminating the effect of gravity on it. They do it by using a pendulum that is turned parallel to the earth's surface. That way only mass effects are seen.
It would the perfect way to test this. Or you could use a double arm pendulum between two metal disks to take the side load off the pendulum bearing. I feel the ratio will be in the end about 1 to 500. No grease or grease seals should be in the bearings, just clean metal. A home made pen points bearing would work best.
Butch

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Offline gammarayburst

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Test fixture for Pseudo Solid movement measurements
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2013, 04:55:36 AM »
See attached

Offline norman6538

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2013, 12:40:48 PM »
Butch that is a good testing idea but I'm not worried about the friction. I am worried about
the work done by the switching. In my test numbers for example. Lets say it takes 20 gram
inches to make it move 1 inch switching the magnetic field off or on times 2. That means we have to make at least 40 gram inches of work to have OU. It sounds like you have improvements that would make the switching far less than 40 gram inches. But in my
simple case it would be better to have 80 gram
inches of work done by the magnets switched on and off. This is the clear and simple challenge with you idea. The right test will demonstrate that.

I have made many embodiments of magnetic and gravity switching that worked perfectly but the switching did not supply sufficient work done to exceed the switching work required.
I have been there many times and got stuck at the "sticky point".
My only claim to fame is my pendulum that goes higher than its dropped point here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74


I say it this way. "If we can use a small force to switch a larger force then we have OU".


Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2013, 12:40:48 PM »
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Offline gammarayburst

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2013, 04:57:32 PM »
Well that is what we are doing, using a very small amount of work to allow the magnets to do a very large amount of work.
It's self evident it works I feel.
Butch

Offline lumen

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2013, 06:54:37 PM »
@Butch,
 
It looks like this concept might work to build a magnetic Stirling  engine.
 
It's probably not necessary to move the magnet all the way back to the start. After a few inches down the steel it should once again attract.
It could be cycled like a Stirling engine, the steel moves together in attraction with one magnet, then the other magnet slides close, then the steel and the sliding magnet move away in repel completing the cycle.
I've done some work on your design a while back with this concept and it does show promise. In fact, if you first let only the steel move, it will push itself partially off the magnet and increase the overall repelling effect by a large factor, then the magnet will pull themselves back onto the steel later on in the cycle.
 
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2013, 06:54:37 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2013, 08:43:57 PM »
@GammaRayBurst

Nice concept !  I am a little bit familiar with the pseudo solid interactions. After I have spent some more time studying your new design.
I will then consider what, and if I can contribute some thing as you have requested.

Thanks for the good work

                                        floor

Offline tim123

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2013, 09:07:57 PM »
Hi Gamma / Butch :)
  I think this is an intriguing idea. I've tried to simplify the mechanism a bit. Do you think the attached diagram is ok?

There's only 1 magnet. When it's on one bar - they're attracted, when it's on both - they're repelled...

The slidey bit could use improving - would need to make it symetrical...

Regards
Tim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2013, 09:07:57 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2013, 09:48:18 PM »
Tim where do you get this idea from?


There's only 1 magnet. When it's on one bar - they're attracted, when it's on both - they're repelled...


I have never seen anything repel unless there are two magnets.
And there is no repel/push unless there first is a squeeze and that takes work/foot pounds.

Norman

Offline tim123

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2013, 10:26:52 PM »
Hi Norman :)
Apologies if I've got this wrong, but it seems to me that it's functionally the same thing...? The repulsion is between the iron bars - not the magnets as such... Does it matter if there are two small magnets or one big one?

If the magnets are just polarising the iron the same way - as seems to be shown in the pics - then surely that would be the same  using one magnet or many?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2013, 10:26:52 PM »
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Offline elecar

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2013, 11:19:12 PM »
Hi Tim. I do not think you would have the pseudo solid effect with a single magnet, from what I can figure it requires more than one magnet set in the same direction  - to -   and    + to +  A single magnet just wants to stick to the two bars in one set and moving that magnet as shown in your drawing would require much more work than that required in the original drawing.


Offline gammarayburst

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2013, 02:53:44 AM »
Hi Gamma / Butch :)
  I think this is an intriguing idea. I've tried to simplify the mechanism a bit. Do you think the attached diagram is ok?

There's only 1 magnet. When it's on one bar - they're attracted, when it's on both - they're repelled...

The slidey bit could use improving - would need to make it symetrical...

Regards
Tim
Tim, that is one smart idea! Let me look at every aspect of it. There just might be something there.
Butch LaFonte

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2013, 02:53:44 AM »
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Offline gammarayburst

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2013, 03:03:15 AM »
@GammaRayBurst

Nice concept !  I am a little bit familiar with the pseudo solid interactions. After I have spent some more time studying your new design.
I will then consider what, and if I can contribute some thing as you have requested.

Thanks for the good work

                                        floor
Floor, Thanks so much for your interest. Right now our biggest problem is the need for 3D animations so people can truly understand how it operates.
Testing of the work reqiured to move the magnet when it is in a truly "floating" state and not touching the side bars and the forces are equal but opposite on the magnet. I believe it can be moved with the push a feather when in that state. Thanks again, we need all the help we can get.
Good to have you with us.
Butch LaFonte


Offline gammarayburst

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2013, 03:09:28 AM »
@Butch,
 
It looks like this concept might work to build a magnetic Stirling  engine.
 
It's probably not necessary to move the magnet all the way back to the start. After a few inches down the steel it should once again attract.
It could be cycled like a Stirling engine, the steel moves together in attraction with one magnet, then the other magnet slides close, then the steel and the sliding magnet move away in repel completing the cycle.
I've done some work on your design a while back with this concept and it does show promise. In fact, if you first let only the steel move, it will push itself partially off the magnet and increase the overall repelling effect by a large factor, then the magnet will pull themselves back onto the steel later on in the cycle.
Lumen, Any way you can get a sketch to me? I want to make sure we are on the same page. Also, I was never able to get the bars only to repel past half the magnet width. How about you?
Your idea could be a huge improvement, looking forward to seeing exactly how you have it laid out.
Butch


Offline tim123

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2013, 03:57:07 PM »
Hi Butch :)
  I've been looking at a few of your vids. I particularly like this rotary arrangement you designed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4O9BY5U_BI

I think it's a cracking idea - and it's similar to one of my projects. The general idea being to alternately magnetise / demagnetise bits of iron, and let the field do the work - in a direction perpendicular to the input power.
http://www.overunity.com/13692/core-rearrangement-fin-motor-open-tech-ou/msg368571/#msg368571

I think you can effectively 'float' magnets over steel in many configurations - most rotating machines do it.

I think you'll get a much stronger effect if the iron is between 2 magnets - ideally so the iron is completing (part of) a magnetic circuit.

I'm going to ponder and see what occurs...

Offline norman6538

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Re: Proof of Overunity From Magnets Fixture, No Negative Work Aspect, LaFonte
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2013, 09:02:48 PM »
In this emulation http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/ButchVideo.wmv
I can picture a weight off to the right connected with a string and dropping
down as the arms goes up. Then when the magnet gets back into the starting
place the attraction would then pull the weight back up as it pulls the arm back
down. And the big bugaboo of a magnet being weakest at  a distance could be
compensated by a variable lever pulley and arm that has its greatest leverage
at the weakest distance and least leverage at its closest distance where the magnetic
power is greatest. ie. arm up and weight down and arm down and weight up.

Norman

 

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