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Author Topic: 44 Times More Power Output than Input  (Read 27086 times)

Offline e2matrix

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44 Times More Power Output than Input
« on: September 04, 2013, 07:10:28 PM »
    I don't believe this device has been picked up here yet on Overunity so I'm looking for discussion on it.   It seems from my quick skim over the material that it has been done in a very scientific way with a lot of controls, data and calculations along with extensive discussion of theory.   Video here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CleoildQFM
And nice write up in PDF here:  http://www.worldsci.org/pdf/abstracts/abstracts_6483.pdf
It doesn't even look that hard to build.   This was 4400% OU with just 2 motors (cheap inefficient Radio Shack motors) but can be run with more motors easily increasing the output to input percentage a lot more. 


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44 Times More Power Output than Input
« on: September 04, 2013, 07:10:28 PM »

Offline tak22

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 08:09:14 PM »
Thank you for this info. At first glance it looks worth consideration and I just happen to have a supply of new DC motors sitting around waiting for a purpose.  :) 
I wonder if the effect only works with PMs? I can see using EMs or other magnetic field generators that have a higher field density.
tak
 


Offline gotoluc

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 09:41:20 PM »
Thanks for starting the topic

Does it say anywhere how the round magnets are polarized? ... I would guess each half of the magnet circle is a pole?

I don't know why the spinning magnet poles would not cause a generator effect back to the coil?

Luc

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 09:41:20 PM »
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Offline tak22

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 09:54:35 PM »
3/4" NeFeB Ring Magnet x 1/4" Thick x 1/4" ID, magnetized through thickness (direction of rod)

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Offline gotoluc

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 10:49:38 PM »
3/4" NeFeB Ring Magnet x 1/4" Thick x 1/4" ID, magnetized through thickness (direction of rod)

Thanks tak22

The magnetization through the thickness is surprising. With the poles in that direction it should not cause a generator effect in the coil.

Surprising the magnets will spin that way. I'll have to try this one.

Thanks for the info

Luc

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 10:49:38 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 11:02:27 PM »
Ok, I really _really_ want to hear this one's explanation for why the device can't be self-looped. Because we all know already that it cannot be self looped.

I assure you, if I had a device that made 44 times more _energy_ output than input over an appropriate time period, I would certainly be able to self loop it even if the output was pumped water and the input was high voltage DC. Or whatever.

You take your generators and use them to keep a bank of batteries at or above, say, 12 volts. The batteries act as superexcellent filters; if you have any real output you can obviously put it through a diode and onto a battery stack no matter what the waveform is, if it has a positive excursion that is over the battery's own voltage.  You run a 12 volt inverter off of the batteries. You use the output of the inverter to power your audio amp and signal source for the big inductor. Stand back and watch it run. Even with sixty percent losses at each step, you only need a few times more output than input for that to work.

But there is some reason why this outstanding 44x OU device cannot be self-looped. What is it? I didn't see the reason given in the most excellent writeup.

Please... before the replications begin.... ask to know why it cannot be self-looped.

Offline tak22

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 11:31:02 PM »
TK,


Ok, I really _really_ want to hear someone's explanation for why the device can't be self-looped, without starting a guessing game. If you know, then just say it.
 
I only replied as the provided PDF looked 'serious' enough to warrant adding it to my 'future file', others as you say may be buying or ordering parts this very second.


Please prevent 10 pages of speculation and just get on with the explanation. It would be appreciated!


tak


added from the PDF (Future Experiments):
Quote
At some point, an experiment should be constructed with 555 Timers and Op-Amp powere transformer circuits run off a battery, where the output could be reapplied to the input.


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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 11:31:02 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2013, 01:23:27 AM »
So what are you saying? There is no excuse for it not being self-looped other than that he just hasn't gotten around to it, yet? Sure, that sounds right.

Why mess around with 555s and op-amps when you have 44 times OU (not 43, or 45....)? I mean, if you were claiming three times OU then your gains might be lost in the less-than-unity efficiencies of the charging system, the inverter, the audio amp and signal source, etc.... but come on. 44 times OU. Just do what I said, charge some batteries with the generator output. How hard is that? Some wires, some diodes, and a meter or two. Say you lose half your efficiency in charging. So now you are down to 22 times OU. So then you run your inverter. Lose another 50 percent, now you only have 11 to one OU. Your audio amp and iPod don't use much power do they? Say it takes 30 Watts from the inverter to provide 10 Watts of audio power, a 33 percent efficiency. So now you are running the whole system, with lots of losses, and you still have 3 times OU left over, or more, to power your house with. And you could put the whole system together in a day, with off the shelf parts, once you have the basic apparatus.

Right?

What is the publication date on that .pdf, anyway?

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2013, 02:46:41 AM »
This man developed a device that outputs 44 times more than is input yet his paper only took 2nd place at this conference?  What the hell did the 1st place guy have then?  Time travel?
Holy crap.

Bill

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2013, 02:46:41 AM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2013, 03:38:07 AM »
TinselKoala,   I just got back in from working on another project all day and haven't yet had the chance to read the whole PDF or even watch the whole video.   Does Jeff say that it can't be looped to self run?   Or are you just speculating that because he hasn't mentioned it?   I would agree you can't claim 44 times more out than in and say it can't be looped to self run once started.   At least I can't think of any valid reason.   I don't know what he has stated in regard to this yet but I can take a guess at why he might say it won't self run or be looped even if he knows it can.   Claiming that would potentially bring out the masses of "Perpetual motion is impossible" crowd, the scorn of traditional scientists and possibly the attention of the PTB who may want to stop this before it gets rolling.   All just my guesses if that's indeed what he has stated.


Well off to do some reading on that PDF.   This one could be very interesting....

Offline MileHigh

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 04:14:44 AM »
It's way too much effort to digest this whole thing.  But I did watch the first 14 minutes of the video clip and I lightning-skimmed through the pdf.

The verdict isn't good.  It's the phenomenon of "what you see before your eyes is what you are supposed to see," at play on a larger scale.  It's an amplified version of the case when a beginner plays with a coil and sees high voltage spikes.  They can be shocked (emotionally) and amazed at what they are seeing.  They can believe that it's "cold electricity" or some kind of zero point energy being extracted from the vacuum.

They are looking at the response of an electro-mechanical filter to different excitation frequencies.  Strange looking phenomena appear to be happening as they play with their generator frequency, etc.  These things are not easy to analyze, but they can be simulated in pSpice if you have the required knowledge to construct the circuit and provide the excitations, etc.

There wasn't any language in the first 14 minutes that was confidence inspiring and they get into the "Aether field" as a "third field" and they talk about Rodin coils.  Dropping like a lead balloon!  lol

I didn't even get to the measurements.  But just from looking at it I can see that it's a pipe dream to think this device outputs 44 times the input.

The Bad News Bear strikes again.  Sorry.

MileHigh

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 04:14:44 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 05:18:00 AM »
Seems like a 'far out' idea.  :o

Just the initial idea of experimenting, he found a new and different way of converting from electrical to mechanical. And then to add the motors.

Will look at the pdf more. Looks like a lot of work was put into it.

Mags

Offline e2matrix

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 06:01:45 AM »
    A surprising jump to conclusion Milehigh for so little study on this.  I can't see discounting this based on your lack of any real analysis of all the details the author has provided.   It seems he has really done his homework and while he mentions ZPE and Rodin coils I'd hardly consider that a good reason to conclude he has nothing of interest.    Based on details later in the PDF it seems he has gone to a lot of trouble to cover all bases.   I still haven't read the whole thing but I did find his statement about self looping :  " At some point, an experiment should be constructed with 555 Timers and Op-Amp power transformer circuits run off a battery, where the output could be reapplied to the input. "  which I assume is his way of saying he believes it could self run or be looped or that it at least has the potential to do so.   
   I think for myself it is worth giving it a deeper look and some more discussion -- possibly with the author by email too.   It's really not that hard to put together a circuit to try the looping part as the author mentioned. 

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2013, 06:24:03 AM »
   
 I still haven't read the whole thing but I did find his statement about self looping :  " At some point, an experiment should be constructed with 555 Timers and Op-Amp power transformer circuits run off a battery, where the output could be reapplied to the input. " which I assume is his way of saying he believes it could self run or be looped or that it at least has the potential to do so.
 


Exactly right.  And, as TK mentioned, this self-looping idea came as a sort of aside.  Gee, I have 44 more output than in....I guess someone (not me of course) could design a circuit to have this self run.

Does this really make any sense to you E2?  I mean, the good folks on OUdotcom would be thrilled, totally thrilled mind you, to have anything that was 100.000001% efficient.  This guy says he has something 44 times better than that and...yes, I guess it could be self-looped one day....by someone else....I suppose.

I am just saying that this defies credibility.  Plus, do remember that his paper was only # 2 over there.  I am still waiting for the #1 guy to post over here.

I watched the entire video and the only thing I took away from that was his introduction where he was to present the 2nd place paper.  Well, that and the self-looped part as a sort of after thought.  I would have thought that to be the goal from the get go.

Bill              (Bold type in quote added by me)

Offline tak22

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Re: 44 Times More Power Output than Input
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2013, 06:55:11 AM »
Found this after a bit of digging ...


http://www.worldsci.org/pdf/abstracts/abstracts_6823.pdf


Quote
Abstract:

In the paper, “Experiment on the Linear Increase in Efficiency with Multiple Moving Magnets over Pulsed Inductors” I, the author, described and measured an experimental apparatus in attempt to discover whether or not the efficiency of such a system would increase linearly with an increase in the number of generator-turning magnets and an increase in frequency, as previous experiments had suggested the hypothesis could very well be valid. The result was that it increased exponentially, and that aspect of the paper remains intact despite the measurement error. By filtering the input power (but not the output power) to the system, such that at each increase in frequency the input power would in turn reduce with an output power increase, such a successful experiment would surely be telling of an over-efficient system, perhaps even self-sustaining systems could be a practical technological reality. While the apparatus design was successful, an important input measurement error was discovered, thus the experimental results will need to be retested and the paper appended...

 

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