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Author Topic: Tinman's Rotary Transformer  (Read 54336 times)

Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2013, 12:57:08 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2013, 12:57:08 PM »

Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2013, 02:17:51 PM »
Test Using Pulsed DC

I tested my motor using pulsed DC:

 - Timing controlled by signal generator
 - Power switched by DC solid-state-relay (Teledyne 603)
 - I included a smoothing capacitor in parallel with the power supply this time too.

Frequency
 - I ran it at only one speed: 10,000Hz.
 - 1000Hz brings the motor to a stop
 - My SSR can do up to 25KHz max

Duty
 - I used a duty cycle of 90% - which was the minimum that worked apparently without affecting performance at the 10KHz frequency.
 - A lower duty-cycle slows it a lot.


Rotary Transformer Config

43 Hz - No Load
 - 12.5v
 - 1.28a

43 Hz - With Load
 - 12.2v
 - 1.24a

60 Hz - No Load
 - 15.0v
 - 1.33a

60 Hz - With Load
 - 14.8v
 - 1.27a


Standard Config

43 Hz
 - 15.2v
 - 0.57a

60 Hz
 - 19.6v
 - 0.6a


Conclusions

The results seem slightly better than with plain DC, but it's not a lot, and it's probably within the range of measurement error. The smoothing cap may well affect the readings.

The motor runs really badly on a low duty, or a low frequency.

The power from the load - as measured by LED brightness - didn't seem significantly different.

Given how the motor works, I still can't really see a way that pulsing the power - in any way - can help it's performance... But I see TM's still getting some interesting results I can't duplicate... :)

It's my 100th post apparently...  8)

Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2013, 07:59:07 PM »
Hi Folks,
  I've been thinking about this, and I really think that the powered-rotor is the Achilles-heel of the system, as far as OU goes... It is the thing that allows the Positive-Lenz effect to show-up though, by allowing switching...

1) Input power... We really want a system that doesn't need any.

2) The power available at the stator is basically equal to the change in flux.
   The change in flux is caused by the input current being re-routed by the brushes.
   So the input & output are too closely related...
   My feeling is they are * directly * related. Which means UU, not OU...

(Note: In the standard configuration of the motor there is Negative Lenz at work in the rotor, as it switches against the stator field.)

Also, I re-thought my comments about coil size, and I don't think they were right...


Field-Switching at the Stator-Face...

It's the * switching of polarity * of the magnet at the center of the stator that causes the effect...

Ideally we'd be able to switch the polarity of the rotor segment without the stator's field being able to affect it at all. In reality, who knows...

I also want to explore the possibility of using PMs for the rotor a bit more. I have a new idea...

The diagram below shows a stator / rotor arrangement.

 - The idea is that the PMs * are * on the rotor this time ;) - and in pairs.
 - The stator core has 2 extensions: one aligned with the rotor's 'N' magnet, the other aligned with the 'S'.
 - The rotor approaches the stator, with one of it's magnets near the extension.
 - As the rotor passes thru the center of the stator, it 'switches track', the other magnet comes near the extension, and the stator sees the change in flux we're looking for.
 - The stator field will do it's Positive Lenz effect, attract the incoming magnet & repel the outgoing one.


The Sticky Point...

The problem with this is that the switch-over point, where the 2 magnets meet the 2 extensions, might be really sticky.
 - The magnets are making a circuit
 - The coil field is pulling the magnet back.

There are solutions to this problem - i.e. timing the output instead of relying on a diode... It only gives a half the time to take power out though. I think.

The stickyness may be equal to, or less than, the thrust given by the +ve Lenz effect. In which case it's not a problem. A generator with no reaction force would be a great result...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2013, 07:59:07 PM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2013, 08:31:56 PM »
Attached is a diagram showing a number of the above coils & cores in sequence, with rotor magnets shown too.

Coils are the dark circles, cores are rectangles, magnets are squares.

There are 2 sets of coils that would be active alternately. So it would be producing electricity and thrust 100% of the time.

It's a lot easier to build than my last idea. :)

But the sticky point might be really sticky...  :-\

But it is counteracted by the +ve Lenz, and with this arrangement - with all the cores connected - it could all balance out...

Actually, I'm finding it hard to work out if the coils clash, or help. I'm a bit slow sometimes... I'll have to do a step by step set of diagrams.

Offline NTesla

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2013, 03:28:33 AM »
Here is my Replication test of Tinman's Rotary Transformer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkH8jfGq0yM

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2013, 03:28:33 AM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2013, 08:37:45 AM »
Turxotor... Linked from Peswiki news today... Does it look familiar to anyone? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVuwWpoIkCA&feature=c4-overview&list=UUKhTnTVs4KJaTZgVdphYAjg

Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2013, 09:20:05 AM »
As you know, I've been trying to figure out a way of using PMs for the rotor... So I've been trying to analyse the way the magnetic fields & coils interact. I've been thru a few different arrangements, trying to understand the effect, and how / if it can be used.

My thinking at the moment, is that switching the rotor polarity at the stator face requires as much energy as you get back from the coil in back-emf. So this is an Under-Unity phenomenon...

That's not to say it's not useful, it may be, but I don't think it's the direct route to free energy I hoped. I'll keep thinking about it though. I could be wrong. I often am. :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2013, 09:20:05 AM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2013, 11:00:32 AM »
Thane Heins, Regen-X...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLeu9dha-y0

Seems related to the RT, +ve Lenz effect to me... Thoughts anyone?

Update: I found the thread on Thane Heins. The two effects are not the same:
http://www.overunity.com/13398/pdi-regenerative-acceleration-and-bitt-principles/60/

It turns out that AUL (Acceleration Under Load) has been pretty well tested by some of the senior members, and found to be UU...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 02:30:50 PM by tim123 »

Offline tinman

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2013, 03:16:47 PM »
@ Tim
There are many different ways to get the AUL effect,and that come's with understanding magnetic field reactions,be it PM's or EM's.
As i stated very clearly in the second post of this thread-the RT is not an OU device,but a demonstration of one of the many AUL effects. Befor the RT,was my L.A.G (lenz asisted generator). The AUL effect in that machine was due to bucking the magnetic field's between the primary and secondary windings of the toroid drive coils.
As we all know here-there ! as of yet ! are no OU machine's that have been proven to be OU.
Our good old washing machine motor just wont cut it,but it will show an AUL effect.

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2013, 03:16:47 PM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2013, 06:56:58 PM »
Hi TM, we've not gained a means to OU, and that, ultimately, is why we're here. But, we have gained valuable knowledge. Life is short, we've got a lot to learn, and it's usually painful. That's just the way it is eh. You're married, I'm sure you understand... ;)

Offline tinman

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2013, 09:12:58 AM »
Hi TM, we've not gained a means to OU, and that, ultimately, is why we're here. But, we have gained valuable knowledge. Life is short, we've got a lot to learn, and it's usually painful. That's just the way it is eh. You're married, I'm sure you understand... ;)
Lol-yes married for 20 year's,but thankfully still very happy in my relationship.I got one of them ! 1 in a million girls !

Anyway,there was and is something i am trying to show with this setup,and the L.A.G-and it isnt what you think. Only one person has caught on so far,and he now see's the light lol.

So i ask you this Tim-do you see anything fantastic in the RT or the L.A.G ?,Apart from it being quite efficient.
Is there anything mystical about how they accelerate under load?
In all  the other setup that show acceleration under load,have you ever asked them to remove the generating coil,and see how much P/in is drawn from the prime mover when the coil is removed?

Some times the facinating is nothing out of the ordinary.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2013, 09:12:58 AM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2013, 12:43:02 PM »
...Anyway,there was and is something i am trying to show with this setup,and the L.A.G-and it isnt what you think. Only one person has caught on so far,and he now see's the light lol.

So i ask you this Tim-do you see anything fantastic in the RT or the L.A.G ?,Apart from it being quite efficient.
Is there anything mystical about how they accelerate under load?

No mate, nothing either fantasic or mystical. But that was kinda the point - to de-mystify the effect.

I would be quite pleased if I had missed something...

Quote
In all  the other setup that show acceleration under load,have you ever asked them to remove the generating coil,and see how much P/in is drawn from the prime mover when the coil is removed?

Some times the facinating is nothing out of the ordinary.

Well, I'm intrigued... Please elaborate.

:)
Tim

Offline tinman

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2013, 01:36:59 PM »
Well lets look at it like this,using pipe's and water-much the same.
We have a pump(power supply),and a preasure vessle (the RT)hooked to the pump via pipes..On that preasure vessle there is two valve's(1 our rotor and 1 the stator coil). We start the pump,with one valve open(the rotor) and the other closed(the stator coil,wich is open circuit).The pump is of the positive displacment type-no slip or cavitation.The pump delivers say 100LPM,but the open valve(rotor)can only disipate 70LPM.So the pump starts to bog down,and draw more power.
We then open the second valve(hook a load to the stator coil),and the pump speeds back up while dropping in power draw,as the second valve allows the preasure to drop in the preasure vessle-releaving the preasure right back to the pump.

My point is,all these AUL devices are doing nothing other that releaving preasure buildup within the system.
Sure the effect work's,but it will never amount to any extraordinary power gain.

What you will see in all the AUL device video's,is they always start with the generating coil in place.They then take a P/in measurement with the coil unloaded,then a P/in with the coil loaded,and a P/out from the generating coil.
Never will you see a P/in done without the generating coil in place.

What we have done here ,is give everyone a cheap way to see the effect. As you can see,the effect is real enough,but nothing out of the ordinary,and not in any means a way to gain extra energy.The RT was defently more efficient than the induction motor ,at spining that large fan blade. But who's to say a standard universal motor wouldnt be just as efficient?.

You could see this about half way through this thread,and not many people can do that. They just see something fantastic or mistical-i was one of these people a few year's back,and even today i tend to see things that just are not there some time's. But when i do,i throw it out there,and let those with greater knowledge tell me what they see.

Offline tim123

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2013, 03:15:28 PM »
Yes, I understand.

I found the Thane Heins thread interesting - I didn't realise there could be more than one mechanism for AUL... Gestalt's vid was really impressive - and he has some great kit.

I guess I'm still wondering about the 'efficiency rating' of that fan... Given that the RT was better, I think the standard uni-motor would outperform it by quite a margin. Was it running at it's rated voltage? I guess that feels a bit like a 'loose-end' to me... I.e. if that efficiency is correct - and the uni does 50% better - that raises a few questions... Prob not OU ones, but interesting...

Offline tinman

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Re: Tinman's Rotary Transformer
« Reply #74 on: September 09, 2013, 03:39:17 PM »
Yes, I understand.

I found the Thane Heins thread interesting - I didn't realise there could be more than one mechanism for AUL... Gestalt's vid was really impressive - and he has some great kit.

I guess I'm still wondering about the 'efficiency rating' of that fan... Given that the RT was better, I think the standard uni-motor would outperform it by quite a margin. Was it running at it's rated voltage? I guess that feels a bit like a 'loose-end' to me... I.e. if that efficiency is correct - and the uni does 50% better - that raises a few questions... Prob not OU ones, but interesting...
What that test told me,was the fan motors efficiency rateing was way higher than it should be.Look at it like this-these companies say they spend millions on development to improve the efficiency of there products. And along comes a guy,with a 13 year old,well use motor from a washing machine,dose a few simple mod's in his back yard work shop,and ends up with a more efficient motor to do the same job???.
You realy have to ask,what exactly dose the R&D team do at these companies to earn there money?.
I need there job.
It almost sounds as though UFOpolotics is running the R&D crew there.

 

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