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Author Topic: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery  (Read 9957 times)

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« on: August 26, 2013, 09:33:10 AM »
Hi All,

This is an attempt at replicating, Bertil Werjefelt's, magnetic battery.

http://www.rexresearch.com/werjefelt/werjefelt.htm
Fig: 8

The idea is pretty simple. Cogging and Lenz are attraction events. The rotor gets pulled in by the core and CEMF setup in the coil. Werjefelt had the idea if cogging was an attraction event why not try to equalize it with repulsion event. If you can equalize the events then your motor would be running like it has a minimal load, supposedly.

One challenge with this design is that the repulsion must be adjusted for each load. You need a way to place a load on the coils then move the repulsing magnets into position to equalize. I came up with a movable repulsor plate for that.

Results: This first version failed due to weak magnets; N35. I want to raise the voltage higher than the 200mv being put out now per coil so I can put a heavy load on them.

Only the rotor and repulsor need to be reprinted for the next version to fit the stronger N52 magnets.

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Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« on: August 26, 2013, 09:33:10 AM »

Offline markdansie

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 10:42:11 AM »
thanks for the information this is a really interesting project
Kind Regards
mark

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 11:17:40 AM »
Hi All,

This is an attempt at replicating, Bertil Werjefelt's, magnetic battery.


@DreamThinkBuild:

Do I understand this correctly?

The motor driving your replication is an ordinary DC-motor. The rest is in essence a generator?

The DC motor drives the disk with the four magnets which pass the four "generator coils". The load is connected to the "generator coils"?

The static disk with the four magnets (which can be adjusted up and down) is supposed to reduce the Lenz effect?

What do you hope to achieve? More output from the "generator coils" than is needed to drive the DC-motor? Or just a more efficient generator?

I guess you are replicating Fig. 8 from WO9414237 ?http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=WO&NR=9414237A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19940623&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

By the way, the patent has never been granted in any country:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/inpadoc?CC=WO&NR=9414237A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19940623&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

It is a nice build! This is not criticism, just an attempt to understand.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 11:17:40 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 12:20:47 PM »
Hi DreamThinkBuild
Im afraid that the result will be the same as if your static magnetic disc isnt there at all. The reason is that the repulsion will be the same in both direction's-both on aproach and on leaving. So the net result is zero. I do believe that PM's can be made to provide a rotational force,but as of yet,it hasnt been done. But it's only a matter of time befor it happens-just like the heavier than air machines that would never fly.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 06:20:50 PM »
Hi DreamThinkBuild,

Thanks for "tinkering" with this setup, very nice build. Some of the reasons for the low 200 mV induced output voltage may include indeed the relatively weak magnets but I believe it is also the air gap being large between the coil tops and the rotor magnets. I understand that severe mechanical problems are to be solved in fixing the coils firmly when you were to attempt to reduce air gap.

My other 'issue' would be the bolts in the coils, eddy current losses in them may dissipate too much useful output, unfortunately. Somehow the mechanical fixing for the coils should be solved in a different way to get rid of those bolts and use either ferrite cores or welding rods or many isolated iron wire pieces (garden wires).

Greetings
Gyula

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 06:20:50 PM »
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Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 02:34:41 AM »
Hi Mark,

Thanks.

Hi Conrad,

The idea is to reduce the input current to the prime mover while the coils are loaded. Whether it is efficient, I'm not sure, have to test and find out. Thanks.

Hi Tinman,

Quote
The reason is that the repulsion will be the same in both direction's-both on approach and on leaving. So the net result is zero.

It seems counter intuitive. That is the same thought I had and one reason why I attempted the build. I've done some tests with magnets where you can make a neutral plane from repelling/attracting magnets. The same thought came with this design. Could it be possible to create a neutral plane between the attraction of the coil and repulsion of the repulsor magnets.

I attached a picture of the neutral plane, this is from one of my magnet motor attempts. The magnets are all north facing around the ring with a channel in between. When a south facing magnet is placed in the channel attached to a arm it will move with very little resistance, instead of being pulled into the rings.

If you rotate the channeled magnet, keeping the axis aligned to the plane, you can create a vector where the magnet will be pulled from the inner ring but pushed from the outer ring. What is interesting is it will not move until you make a gate. Removing one inner and outer magnet will create a gate, the arm will move to gate. Put the magnets back and it becomes a static system again.

Hi Gyula,

You always learn something with tinkering, even if the device fails. The coils are actually electromagnet coils from Electronic Goldmine, they have a steel core. I have other magnets that you can just swipe by the coil and it will light up a bank of leds when rectified. I can get the air gap to about 3mm but it's still not enough with these magnets. Thanks for the suggestions.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 03:21:43 AM »
Nice build.  You might try just flat disk magnets with no holes in the center.  The hole in the center causes the field to be different as opposed to the field from a flat disk.  I discovered this in my own magnet experiments and research.  It seems to me that you want all the magnetism you can get and that hole is just that...a place without any.

Bill

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 03:21:43 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 12:18:23 AM »
Hi DreamThinkBuild,

Sorry for saying there have been bolts in your coils as cores but for a dynamic field change such rotary setups have, the steel core may still develop eddy current losses, for they are designed for much less frequent on-off operation. And also their copper losses may also be high for generating power but I fully understand they are good for the principle test, optimization should come only later if it proves to be worth doing.

Thanks for showing your other magnet motor attempt, very interesting. What if you use the Werjefelt principle on that setup? i.e. you remove as you say one magnet from both the outer and inner circles, you will have a stopping sticky point at that 'gate' for the South magnet moving in the channel, this sticky point is attractive and you would compensate this single point on the other end of the center shaft (away from all the magnets in the circles) with two facing repel magnets: one fixed to the shaft and the other one to a non-moving holder, both positioned such that they would repel each other at just the sticky point in the channel.  I know that a varying load force to the shaft would imply repositioning the distance between the repel magnets when they are just facing, but the principle could also be tested.

Greetings, Gyula

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 02:23:18 AM »
Hi Bill,

I got some N52 cylinder magnets but haven't rebuilt the design yet for them. :) Thanks.

Hi Gyula,

The round track shows the conservative nature of magnets, nothing will move unless there is a gate or you put in an external input.

I really like your idea for using the gate of the magnet motor for the repulsion event. The MMD track style layout would probably work better as it does shoot the magnet out, but the stress eventually kills the track. Thanks for the suggestion.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Werjefelt's Magnetic Battery
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 02:23:18 AM »
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