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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: steadyfield on August 26, 2013, 07:26:43 AM

Title: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: steadyfield on August 26, 2013, 07:26:43 AM
hi,everyone
I found this in the kapanadze thread posted by a russian.It seems that there's little discussion about it.so I want to bring it up here.

I have purchased all the parts and I'm waiting for delivery.

related links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoGfSDbnwbk
http://ua-hho.do.am/publ/idei_po_ehnergii/generator_ehnergii_na_nelinejnoj_induktivnosti/2-1-0-185  (please use google translate)

here are some explanations taken from his original post.

In moment t1:
Switch S1 is shorted, S2 opened.
Current from charged capacitor C1 advancethrough inductances L1-L2-L3.
Because L1 and L2 are in anti phase,accumulation of energy in L1 and L2 doesn't happen, because their magneticfields cancel each other (anti phase windings).
Accumulation of energy happens only in theL3 coil.

In moment t2:
Switch S1 is opened and S2 shorted.
Thus EMF (electromotive forces) arises onlyin L1 and L3 coils, because L1 and L3 are switched in phase and L2 shortcircuited.
When both currents are in phase resultingEMFs are summing up, when in antiphase,  EMFs are subtracted - canceled.

As currents in both coils L1-L3 areidentical in magnitude and phase, in moment t2 we have resulting EMF twicebigger than EMF in moment t1.
The circuit of Feddback returns part of thereceived power on input, for the next cycles of operation.
The remained received power was sent toload R.

Скважность need to be 2 (D=0.5) andfrequency about 100KHz.
This is very short description of one cycleof operation. The control diagram provides repeated repetition of processdescribed above.

============ some questions ===========
1. Do you think it is a scam? If it is ,how did he make the scam? If it isn't a scam,where does the energy come from?
2.Does the diagram drawn by Vladimir Lapin(see the last attachment) correspond with the circuit in the video? (especially the inductor)

regards
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: TinselKoala on August 26, 2013, 08:44:28 AM
Neat!

The schematic was drawn in December 2007? You mean we've been wasting our time on Joule Thiefs for nearly six years now?

Please let me know when you get your replication working.

(Do I think it's a scam? Yes. How did he make it? I don't know, but there is certainly plenty of room for little button batteries in there. Does Lapin's schematic correspond to the board? Impossible to say, we can't see all of the board's circuitry. It at least seems to have the right components listed. I can't tell about the coil wiring.)

Seriously, though, I am watching and I'd like to see the results of your build, whether it works "as intended" or not.
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: a.king21 on August 26, 2013, 07:58:18 PM
Sreadyfield:  The one thing to watch out for is that you are not picking up emf from the house wiring. Because the power output is so low it is very easy to power a couple of leds from "radiant" mains energy. I would take the device outside and  away from transmitters and overhead power lines. I've been fooled by house mains wiring like that before.
Good luck with your replication.
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: enron-r-crooks on August 27, 2013, 07:48:48 AM
error posting
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 27, 2013, 08:06:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoGfSDbnwbk
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: TinselKoala on August 28, 2013, 05:11:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoGfSDbnwbk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoGfSDbnwbk)

Same video as in the original post.
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 28, 2013, 06:29:23 AM
Same video as in the original post.


Thank you. But will you please stop the tired argument about the Joule Theif ?
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: TinselKoala on August 28, 2013, 07:05:54 AM

Thank you. But will you please stop the tired argument about the Joule Theif ?
Which argument was that? The only mention of the Joule Thief in this thread that I can find is when I pointed out that all our time has been wasted on Joule Thiefs, since the schematic given was drawn in 2007.

Is that a tired argument? I fail to see your reasoning.


Perhaps YOU can tell me why, since the schematic has been known since 2007, there have been exactly zero replications of this circuit that perform as the video shows? And just what that argument has to do with Joule Thiefs?
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 28, 2013, 10:00:27 AM
Which argument was that? The only mention of the Joule Thief in this thread that I can find is when I pointed out that all our time has been wasted on Joule Thiefs, since the schematic given was drawn in 2007.

Is that a tired argument? I fail to see your reasoning.


Perhaps YOU can tell me why, since the schematic has been known since 2007, there have been exactly zero replications of this circuit that perform as the video shows? And just what that argument has to do with Joule Thiefs?

That video was made in May 2013 and I'd venture to say it was not made in 2007 or earlier. And further did NOT follow that schematic for the simple reason that there is no percievable airgap from the video !! Thank you for not bringing up the Joule Thief picture in this thread.


Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 28, 2013, 11:11:38 AM
Just watched the video again. There appears to be aluminum foil covering the coils at the middle of bobbin. Can that be construed as capacitive coupling ? Interesting ....
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: TinselKoala on August 28, 2013, 05:19:55 PM
That video was made in May 2013 and I'd venture to say it was not made in 2007 or earlier. And further did NOT follow that schematic for the simple reason that there is no percievable airgap from the video !! Thank you for not bringing up the Joule Thief picture in this thread.

You would not be able to see the air gap in that video. Did you know, for example, that most TV flyback transformers have a tiny air gap in the ferrite loop? Can you see this gap in any videos of flyback transformer powered devices? It might be all of 0.004 inches of gap, with a tiny disc of paper or plastic in there to maintain the separation. The air gap in the device in the video could even be between the center core and the "cap" piece. You cannot tell from the video! Or at least, I can't.

The parts on the board in the video, that I can see, DO correspond to the parts in the 2007 schematic. Sure, there may be changes in the circuity that I cannot see,  but there are only so many ways to hook up a 78L05 regulator (looks like a small transistor), A 2n7000 mosfet (also looks like a small transistor), a TS34063 Dc-Dc boost converter chip (the 8-pin DIP) and a logic chip configured as an oscillator (the bigger chip). And you can see how many wires are coming out of the coil form.

I am not arguing for or against the "reality" of what is shown... although 2000 microFarads of capacitance charged to high voltage will run a couple of LEDs for a long time. I just think that there seems to be a close correspondence between what I know about circuitry _including JTs_, the video of the device, and the schematic from 2007. I can see how the schematic is supposed to operate and it makes sense. I think it charges the top left 1000uF cap to 12 volts as soon as you close that switch, and even after you open it the cap will keep the oscillator running for a while. The DcDc boost converter and/or the oscillator may be charging the other 1000 uF cap at middle right to a higher voltage than the 12 volt supply, and then the whole thing might be running off this cap for the length of time that the video covers. Maybe. Without building or simulating the circuit I can't tell more than that.
But if you think the device is constructed differently from the schematic given... why not trace it out for yourself and see where the differences are. Your not being able to see the air gap shown on the schematic doesn't mean much to me, because I can see where it _could be_ and some of those places are out-of-sight in the video.

You seem to be the one who is constantly referring to Joule Thiefs... why is that?
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 28, 2013, 06:20:42 PM
You would not be able to see the air gap in that video. Did you know, for example, that most TV flyback transformers have a tiny air gap in the ferrite loop? Can you see this gap in any videos of flyback transformer powered devices? It might be all of 0.004 inches of gap, with a tiny disc of paper or plastic in there to maintain the separation. The air gap in the device in the video could even be between the center core and the "cap" piece. You cannot tell from the video! Or at least, I can't.

The parts on the board in the video, that I can see, DO correspond to the parts in the 2007 schematic. Sure, there may be changes in the circuity that I cannot see,  but there are only so many ways to hook up a 78L05 regulator (looks like a small transistor), A 2n7000 mosfet (also looks like a small transistor), a TS34063 Dc-Dc boost converter chip (the 8-pin DIP) and a logic chip configured as an oscillator (the bigger chip). And you can see how many wires are coming out of the coil form.

I am not arguing for or against the "reality" of what is shown... although 2000 microFarads of capacitance charged to high voltage will run a couple of LEDs for a long time. I just think that there seems to be a close correspondence between what I know about circuitry _including JTs_, the video of the device, and the schematic from 2007. I can see how the schematic is supposed to operate and it makes sense. I think it charges the top left 1000uF cap to 12 volts as soon as you close that switch, and even after you open it the cap will keep the oscillator running for a while. The DcDc boost converter and/or the oscillator may be charging the other 1000 uF cap at middle right to a higher voltage than the 12 volt supply, and then the whole thing might be running off this cap for the length of time that the video covers. Maybe. Without building or simulating the circuit I can't tell more than that.
But if you think the device is constructed differently from the schematic given... why not trace it out for yourself and see where the differences are. Your not being able to see the air gap shown on the schematic doesn't mean much to me, because I can see where it _could be_ and some of those places are out-of-sight in the video.

You seem to be the one who is constantly referring to Joule Thiefs... why is that?

Did you or did you not get that this device has been replicated since 2007 ? Simple question.
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: conradelektro on August 28, 2013, 08:02:53 PM
Did you or did you not get that this device has been replicated since 2007 ? Simple question.

@bringdownthezog:

1) It is impossible to know in which year the contraption shown in video has been built. Do you have any facts that support a certain date for the build?

2) It is impossible to know from watching the video how the contraption works and whether it is OU or not. Do you have any facts which would support OU or anything unusual (anything that could not be explained by common knowledge)?

3) It is impossible to know from your posts what your point is. Do you think the contraption shown in the video is really an OU device? If you think it is, what are the facts which would support this opinion?

My opinion: it is impossible to draw any conclusion from the video, there are no useful facts disclosed. Therefore it is a waste of time to speculate. If you have any facts, please post them.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 29, 2013, 05:52:49 AM
@bringdownthezog:

1) It is impossible to know in which year the contraption shown in video has been built. Do you have any facts that support a certain date for the build?

2) It is impossible to know from watching the video how the contraption works and whether it is OU or not. Do you have any facts which would support OU or anything unusual (anything that could not be explained by common knowledge)?

3) It is impossible to know from your posts what your point is. Do you think the contraption shown in the video is really an OU device? If you think it is, what are the facts which would support this opinion?

My opinion: it is impossible to draw any conclusion from the video, there are no useful facts disclosed. Therefore it is a waste of time to speculate. If you have any facts, please post them.

Greetings, Conrad


Hi Conrad,

You have to do your own research. Let us know when you're done and can add value to this discussion.  ;)

Thank you.
BDtZ
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 29, 2013, 06:28:48 AM

Hi Conrad,

You have to do your own research. Let us know when you're done and can add value to this discussion.  ;)

Thank you.
BDtZ

So, this is your way of answering "No" to all of Conrad's questions then?

Bill
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 29, 2013, 08:04:37 AM
So, this is your way of answering "No" to all of Conrad's questions then?

Bill

Why is he asking ME these questions ? 

Scroogle is your friend ...
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: TinselKoala on August 29, 2013, 01:17:05 PM
Let's review. In his (or her) first post, bringdownthezog reposts the video in the OP without comment.

In his second post he says,
"Thank you. But will you please stop the tired argument about the Joule Theif ? " (sic)

In his third post he says,

"That video was made in May 2013 and I'd venture to say it was not made in 2007 or earlier. And further did NOT follow that schematic for the simple reason that there is no percievable airgap from the video !! Thank you for not bringing up the Joule Thief picture in this thread." (sic)

Content at last! Even if it isn't saying much.

In his fourth post he says,
"Just watched the video again. There appears to be aluminum foil covering the coils at the middle of bobbin. Can that be construed as capacitive coupling ? Interesting ...."

Oddly, nobody tells him to go and google it for himself.

In his fifth post he says,
"Did you or did you not get that this device has been replicated since 2007 ? Simple question."

Sure, it's a simple question. Not one that is responsive to the big quote from me, though, so not worth a response from me.

In his sixth post he says,
"Hi Conrad,

You have to do your own research. Let us know when you're done and can add value to this discussion.  ;)

Thank you.
BDtZ "

Again, not responsive to the quote from Conrad, and insulting someone who does indeed do his own research and a lot of it. We know and respect conradelektro here. BDtZ, newbie.... not so much.

In his seventh post he says,
"Why is he asking ME these questions ?

Scroogle is your friend ... "

But Scroogle stopped being a more private route to Google searches quite some time ago, and it now appears that Google is ripping off the name for its own purposes.

So, I submit to you, gentle reader, that this person BDtZ is not doing what he seems to expect from others: Doing his own research, answering questions, and contributing value to this discussion.

Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 29, 2013, 02:43:08 PM
OOOOOkay, Since TinselKoala is not answering any questions, lets see his words of wisdom shall we ?

Quote
Neat!

The schematic was drawn in December 2007? You mean we've been wasting our time on Joule Thiefs for nearly six years now?

Please let me know when you get your replication working.

(Do I think it's a scam? Yes. How did he make it? I don't know, but there is certainly plenty of room for little button batteries in there. Does Lapin's schematic correspond to the board? Impossible to say, we can't see all of the board's circuitry. It at least seems to have the right components listed. I can't tell about the coil wiring.)

Seriously, though, I am watching and I'd like to see the results of your build, whether it works "as intended" or not.


and in a later post says to me,

Quote
Perhaps YOU can tell me why, since the schematic has been known since 2007, there have been exactly zero replications of this circuit that perform as the video shows? And just what that argument has to do with Joule Thiefs?

"Do I think it's a scam? Yes. How did he make it? I don't know, but plenty of room for little button batteries in there"
 
What is the meaning of this drivel ? Does he have anything to back this up with ? Nothing! Zero, zilch. Does anyone take him seriously after this ?

Where did he get this splendid idea that this device has not been replicated ? Did he pull this out of the hat ? Don't know and don't expect him to come back with an answer. All he's done is spew known FUD here hoping people wouldn't notice.

What can we expect from him ? I'll tell you what !! We can expect this shrew to make up more hooey which does not have any technical content until the cows come home !!!

Can he read a document to understand how this device was built ? I doubt it but the document is attached for everyone to read and make up their own mind ! 


Thanks a bunch.
BDtZ
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: Poit on August 30, 2013, 02:20:49 AM
OOOOOkay, Since TinselKoala is not answering any questions, lets see his words of wisdom shall we ?

and in a later post says to me,

"Do I think it's a scam? Yes. How did he make it? I don't know, but plenty of room for little button batteries in there"
 
What is the meaning of this drivel ? Does he have anything to back this up with ? Nothing! Zero, zilch. Does anyone take him seriously after this ?

Where did he get this splendid idea that this device has not been replicated ? Did he pull this out of the hat ? Don't know and don't expect him to come back with an answer. All he's done is spew known FUD here hoping people wouldn't notice.

What can we expect from him ? I'll tell you what !! We can expect this shrew to make up more hooey which does not have any technical content until the cows come home !!!

Can he read a document to understand how this device was built ? I doubt it but the document is attached for everyone to read and make up their own mind ! 


Thanks a bunch.
BDtZ

All TK has done/said is pointed out that on the bottom right of the schematic has a date from 2007. "What is the meaning of this drivel ?" look at this whole thread from the start and it will become clearer.

Out of everyone on this forum TK has to be the ONLY person that has consistently made sense!

YOU are the fool talking drivel mate! leave TK alone
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 30, 2013, 04:21:19 AM
All TK has done/said is pointed out that on the bottom right of the schematic has a date from 2007. "What is the meaning of this drivel ?" look at this whole thread from the start and it will become clearer.

Out of everyone on this forum TK has to be the ONLY person that has consistently made sense!

YOU are the fool talking drivel mate! leave TK alone

More hooey ...
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 30, 2013, 05:36:33 AM
More hooey ...

Yes, I agree.  So quit posting it.  Try reading the topic before posting and you might make more sense. (Possibly)

Bill
Title: Re: Melnicenko self running device
Post by: bringdownthezog on August 30, 2013, 06:33:38 AM
Yes, I agree.  So quit posting it.  Try reading the topic before posting and you might make more sense. (Possibly)

Bill

 ::)