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## News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: markdansie on August 23, 2013, 02:42:07 AM

Title: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: markdansie on August 23, 2013, 02:42:07 AM
This  is a challenge for all of those interested in batteries and Physics.
I feel the term generator would be more appropriate (although the water stored above is the battery)

http://revolution-green.com/2013/08/23/10kv-battery-cans-water/ (http://revolution-green.com/2013/08/23/10kv-battery-cans-water/)

Kind Regards
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: TinselKoala on August 23, 2013, 03:38:27 AM
I have no idea why Professor Lewin is referring to the Kelvin Water Drop Electrostatic Generator, invented in 1867, as a "battery". Sure, energy is stored in the lifted water, but calling this thing a "battery" is a real stretch. Lewin must be using the terminology deliberately to prove a point or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_water_dropper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kelvin_water_dropper.PNG

Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: TinselKoala on August 23, 2013, 03:40:58 AM
So how does this work, then?

8)

And I am still, no kidding, looking for a good explanation of the effect shown in this video with the "Quantum polarization panel".

Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 23, 2013, 04:26:50 AM
I went through the first year on-line MIT course (videos) of Professor Lewin a few years back and I remember seeing this.  Also, interestingly enough (I will find it if anyone is interested) he shows a simple circuit where the resistors do NOT comply with Ohm's law at all.  Of course, the math he uses to do this, and his other stuff, is usually way over my head.  He is also the only academic person I am aware of that says that static electricity can do work.  I learned this on my own a while back but every physics teacher and professor I ever had said that it can't.

I am thinking that his use of the word battery here is relating to the "stored" energy in the cans of water raised above the device.  Potential energy would be a better way to describe it I think.  This device does not show the work required to raise the water (by filling the cans) which should be considered.

Great Professor though, I love listening to this guy.

Bill

Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: TinselKoala on August 23, 2013, 04:47:47 AM
Lewin is a great teacher, always fun to watch.

But static electricity does all kinds of work. I remembered that inkjet printers used electrostatic fields to direct the droplets so I looked in WIKI... and Kelvin turned up again!

Quote
The continuous inkjet (CIJ) method is used commercially for marking and coding of products and packages. In 1867 Lord Kelvin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thomson,_1st_Baron_Kelvin) patented the syphon recorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphon_recorder), which recorded telegraph signals as a continuous trace on paper using an ink jet nozzle deflected by a magnetic coil. The first commercial devices (medical strip chart recorders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_recorder)) were introduced in 1951 by Siemens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens).[4]
In CIJ technology, a high-pressure pump directs liquid ink from a reservoir through a gunbody and a microscopic nozzle, creating a continuous stream of ink droplets via the Plateau-Rayleigh instability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plateau-Rayleigh_instability). A piezoelectric crystal creates an acoustic wave as it vibrates within the gunbody and causes the stream of liquid to break into droplets at regular intervals: 64,000 to 165,000 droplets per second may be achieved. The ink droplets are subjected to an electrostatic field created by a charging electrode as they form; the field varies according to the degree of drop deflection desired. This results in a controlled, variable electrostatic charge on each droplet. Charged droplets are separated by one or more uncharged "guard droplets" to minimize electrostatic repulsion between neighbouring droplets.
The charged droplets pass through an electrostatic field and are directed (deflected) by electrostatic deflection plates to print on the receptor material (substrate), or allowed to continue on undeflected to a collection gutter for re-use. The more highly charged droplets are deflected to a greater degree. Only a small fraction of the droplets is used to print, the majority being recycled.

And I'm also reminded that professional auto painters often use electrostatic fields to get more paint onto the target than they could without charging the paint.
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 23, 2013, 05:13:28 AM

And I am still, no kidding, looking for a good explanation of the effect shown in this video with the "Quantum polarization panel".

That's easy.  You have built a rotating magnetic field electro-static capacitor.  Now, had you filmed that below the equator, the sphere would have rotated in the other direction.  Hopefully, you did not damage the space-time continuum very much by running that.  Hopefully.

Bill
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: Kator01 on August 23, 2013, 01:00:15 PM

And I am still, no kidding, looking for a good explanation of the effect shown in this video with the "Quantum polarization panel".

Tinselkoala, do you have a link for me to understand the priciple of this "quantum.leach-out-thoerie"
I missed this subject.

Another question: was it you who posted the vid about the copper-zinc-cell with the regenerative collaps-spike-circuit ?
Do you have a drawing of this circuit ?

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: TinselKoala on August 23, 2013, 06:09:49 PM
Tinselkoala, do you have a link for me to understand the priciple of this "quantum.leach-out-thoerie"
I missed this subject.
Heh.... actually most of what happens in that video is "simple" electrostatic field interactions. The part that I genuinely do not understand is the effect of the "Quantum Polarization Panel" in the last part of the video. When the flying ball gets tired, then the insertion of the panel on the outside of the housing causes a rapid speed-up again. The bamboo chopstick holding the panel acts as a very high resistance bleed resistor, but I still can't quite explain the action of the panel. Nothing is "faked" in that video, the high voltage comes from the small VDG machine which uses an ordinary rubber band (purple, IIRC) for a belt and a little hobby motor to turn it.
Quote
Another question: was it you who posted the vid about the copper-zinc-cell with the regenerative collaps-spike-circuit ?
Do you have a drawing of this circuit ?

Regards

Kator01

No, that wasn't me, sorry.
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: markdansie on August 23, 2013, 09:51:29 PM
Hi TK
When I put the video up I was sure that you would come forward with some of your past devices.  Thanks you for doing so.
I am also always surprised by Pirate (first year MIT online )
I believe education is always important and i learn from both of you
Many thanks
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: Kator01 on August 24, 2013, 12:18:01 AM
Tinselkoala,,

what is this "Quantum Polarization Panel" made of ? Just a metallic foil or an isulater-foil ?

For me it looks as if the field-gradient is increased.

May be it has to do with what the german scientis Prof. Turtur has found. He prooved that ZPE is flowing permanently in into an electrostatic field thinning out into the enviroment as the field moves out and away frome the field-source:

Theory:
http://www.ostfalia.de/export/sites/default/de/pws/turtur/images/1_Schrift_03f_englisch.pdf (http://www.ostfalia.de/export/sites/default/de/pws/turtur/images/1_Schrift_03f_englisch.pdf)

First practical test ( unfortunately in german ) you can see the principle at work:

does this give you a clou ?

here it is in english:

Video-Series in english 1-3:

final test in a high-vacuum-chamber done at a german university:
http://philica.com/display_article.php?article_id=141 (http://philica.com/display_article.php?article_id=141)

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: TinselKoala on August 24, 2013, 04:04:49 AM
Hi TK
When I put the video up I was sure that you would come forward with some of your past devices.  Thanks you for doing so.
I am also always surprised by Pirate (first year MIT online )
I believe education is always important and i learn from both of you
Many thanks
Hi Mark
Electrostatic gadgetry is one of my "specialities" for sure and I'm always glad to have a chance to show off the gadgets! I am particularly proud of my Moore's Dirod... even today you don't see very many of these devices, yet they are very reliable and surprisingly powerful. I've done successful demos at 100 percent humidity, raining outside, and the Dirod keeps on working. I also would not be able to understand influence machines at all, without my having carefully analyzed the functioning of the Dirod.
Ironically, though, I have never built a Kelvin water drop generator of my own .... maybe that should be my next project, while it's still hot and dry around here!
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: TinselKoala on August 24, 2013, 04:11:22 AM
@Kator:
The panel is a piece of aluminium duct tape, with the paper backing still in place. It is held by the clip on the end of the bamboo chopstick, which I use as a "bleeder resistor" when I want to discharge without a spark. The active field plates of the chamber are inside the chamber, so putting the panel outside the chamber acts as a capacitor-resistor to ground, through my body. But the side of the chamber that the effect happens on ... is the grounded side. I don't remember the polarity of the VGD, but it's probably top-negative.

I am aware of Turtur's work, and I think he's making ordinary electrostatic motors. But some of the videos you linked are new to me, so I'll watch them and see if I can pick up anything new.
Some friends of mine visited Turtur a couple of years ago and weren't too excited by what they saw, but I don't really know any details beyond that.

Thanks for the interest and the information!
--TK
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: markdansie on August 24, 2013, 07:59:39 AM
Hi TK
I want to do an article on electrostatic gadgets, can you direct me to the best of your video's. A few comments would be good as well.
Mark
Title: Re: 10,000 Volt Water Battery From tins and Water
Post by: TinselKoala on August 24, 2013, 09:00:12 AM
Hi TK
I want to do an article on electrostatic gadgets, can you direct me to the best of your video's. A few comments would be good as well.
Mark

Heh.... the ones I like might not be the ones you or your readers would like!

And unfortunately most of my machines are in Canada still, including my wonderful little Dirod. The only static machine I have here is my original Bonetti machine and I haven't operated it in ten years or more.

But I'll go over the vids and see if I can find some good ones. You can check my channel and search for the tag "electrostatics" and see what pops up, too. I'll PM you tomorrow.