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Author Topic: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal  (Read 1404372 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1815 on: April 25, 2015, 10:07:37 PM »
Tinsel
Yes the newer models that can be hacked and do Sooo much more are leaving tonnes of
used units on Ebay for much less money.

I just can't pic a winner so easily ...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1816 on: April 25, 2015, 10:12:44 PM »
Does anybody have any suggestions on a signal generator that can do what this one does
[or better]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rigol-DG4102-Signal-Arbitrary-Waveform-Generator-AWG-100MHz-2Channel-LCD-Display-/201081553596
the above is a bit over present budget.
used or otherwise?
all suggestions welcome [it would be going to  the UK]

thanks

Chet K

Chet:

I have been looking at this one for a while:  ($125.00)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20Mhz-Dual-ch-DDS-Function-Arbitrary-Waveform-Signal-Generator-sweep-Software-/121478479995

I might have to get the 12 Mhz one for $60.00 as money is still tight over here.

TK can check the specs and tell you if it is any good.  Obviously Chinese but today, what isn't?

Bill

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1817 on: April 25, 2015, 10:15:49 PM »
Chet:

Here is a 24 Mhz for $138.00:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24Mhz-Dual-ch-DDS-Function-Arbitrary-Waveform-Signal-Generator-sweep-Software-/121478483178?tfrom=121478479995&tpos=top&ttype=coupon&talgo=undefined

Bill

Here are the specs for this one:

◆Sampling rate up to 250 MSa/s.
◆Built-in arbitrary waveform with 250 MSa/s sampling rate.
◆4 downloadable 2048 dots arbitrary waveform memories
◆With 12 bit wide waveform generator, the output waveform can be more delicate with low
distortion.
◆Fully numerical control. It can display and numerical control amplitude, offset, frequency, duty
cycle of current signal output and phase difference of two channels.
◆Each function can be adjusted by host computer.
◆Preinstalled 14 common waveforms.
◆High frequency accuracy: magnitude 10-6
◆High resolution: Full range frequency resolution can be 10 mHz.
◆Both main and subsidiary wave duty cycle are adjustable separately (0.1%~99.9%).
◆All range continuously adjustable, digital directly setting.
◆High waveform accuracy: The output waveform synthesized by function calculation is of high
accuracy and low distortion.
◆Arbitrary waveform: User can load arbitrary waveform according to the need.
◆Sweep Function : Linear sweep and Logarithmic sweep. Starting and stop points can be set
optionally.
◆Save function: 20 sets of parameters defined by the users can be saved and loaded anytime.
◆Operation mode: Button and knob controlled with LCD1602 display, digital set directly or knob
adjusted continuously.
◆Highly reliable : Large scale integrated circuit, Surface mounting technology, reliable and
durable.
◆Frequency measurement : Frequency of internal / external signal can be measured through
built-in 100MHz frequency meter.
◆Follow function: Built-in parameter follow function covering frequency, amplitude, offset, duty
cycle, waveform etc. for user’s convenience.
◆Trigger output function: User can choose manual trigger, external trigger or CH2 trigger to
control the main output to output waveforms of specified periodicity. This periodicity can also be defined by the user



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1817 on: April 25, 2015, 10:15:49 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1818 on: April 25, 2015, 10:22:28 PM »
While Dragon has surprised me by posting even that much, it should be clear that the circuit diagram above is _not_ complete. There is no indication of the turn count on the "primary" of the toroid. Nothing about toroid material. Nothing is indicated about the _input_ to the inverter, the inverter type (make and model), or how the input and output power measurements were done.

One of the basic requirements of the scientific reporting of "experiments" or even patent applications is that the information should enable someone "skilled in the art" to reproduce the experiment or device and (potentially, no pun intended) to get the same results as claimed. There isn't enough information in Dragon's diagram to do that.

I'd like to know the make and model of the inverter. Is it possible that the measurements are of _reactive power_ circulating in the output loop?

Worse I think, you might find the 400 amps is just the measured current circulating in a shorted few turns, and I think the primary would be the 120 volt input winding of a step down transformer,  just like in the B&L setup. Anyone can do that.

..

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1819 on: April 25, 2015, 11:40:00 PM »
Worse I think, you might find the 400 amps is just the measured current circulating in a shorted few turns, and I think the primary would be the 120 volt input winding of a step down transformer,  just like in the B&L setup. Anyone can do that.

..

Sure they can. But on 8 watts of input power?

I just looked at my MicroQEG demonstration numbers, and I was able to measure a bit over 10 amps p-p circulating in the coil with about 4-6 watts input power. Good measurements too. Some of my wireless power systems have 40-60 amps in the transmitter loop but generally need 25 watts or so on the input.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1819 on: April 25, 2015, 11:40:00 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1820 on: April 25, 2015, 11:46:05 PM »
Chet:

I have been looking at this one for a while:  ($125.00)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20Mhz-Dual-ch-DDS-Function-Arbitrary-Waveform-Signal-Generator-sweep-Software-/121478479995

I might have to get the 12 Mhz one for $60.00 as money is still tight over here.

TK can check the specs and tell you if it is any good.  Obviously Chinese but today, what isn't?

Bill

At those prices, if it breaks or is otherwise unsatisfactory, you can just toss it in the bin and get another one! Not even worth trying to repair it or even to send it back to the factory for service.

But they don't appear to have synch out, trigger/synch in, or a VCF in for remote frequency control by another FG.

But who needs those functions anyway. (Besides me, I mean.) 

ETA: Sorry, I see from the list of specs Bill posted that some of those functions are indeed available. Doesn't seem like there are nearly enough BNC connectors for all that though.

Heck, I'd like one to experiment with myself. I wonder how it would fare in, say, an Ainslie experiment where significant current must pass _through_ the FG while it is operating...

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1821 on: April 26, 2015, 03:09:41 AM »
You guys should aspire to be like Tinman and Farmhand, two gentlemen that have really come up over the years and they are great role models and they can really hold their own.  Tinman can be a bit stubborn and stick to his guns sometimes.  The important point is the willingness to learn and the willingness to debate.  I hope that he is not offended by my comments.

I will take the liberty of quoting Farmhand from OUR:

Quote
I can show you 400 amps with only about 8 to 10 watts input. But the 400 amps isn't output is it ? If it was it would be associated with voltage and power value, the 400 amps is just a measured value in the setup. If anyone puts a couple of turns of thick wire around a toroid that has a 220 to 240 volt primary winding on it they can also see some 400 amps or so of current on the wire. It doesn't mean anything. The output power or the energy dissipated in/from the load compared to the input power is what matters. 400 amps so what ? What of it ? What was the load and what was the voltage across the load ? Not to mention those things is leading people up the path.

That's what some of you guys should have been saying yourselves today.

And I am going to be honest and state that you don't want to be like EMJunkie or AllCanadian.  I am not saying that they are bad people, but they lead themselves down garden paths and/or refuse to believe in straightforward, well understood stuff.  EMJunkie is all over the map and believes in whackadoo stuff.  I am sure many of you have been reading his thread.

I have been harshly judged myself.  So I am just giving you my opinions in a similar vein - but without the Tabasco sauce, both good and bad.  I am not trying to pick fights or anything like that.  I am just giving you my views.

I have a real issue with blind believers, and that is always a problematic issue on the forums.  Chet falls into that category also.

Look at what Chet said:

Quote
Speaking of Zero Milehigh.
that's about how much experience you have looking for ways to harvest energy from
the ground.

My money is on the experimenters finding something long before the fellows that don't even look.

This is just irrational blind belief.  It's like saying, "We don't know if blue cheese grows in sewer culverts.  So this coming weekend we are getting a group together to go and find out."

There is no "energy in the ground" and you don't have to be an Einstein to use your wits to figure that out all by yourselves.  And of course we are talking about "energy in the ground" like we are talking about it here in this thread.

I am not making this posting to start a brawl.  Just giving you things as I see them.  It doesn't mean that there are not any more possible discoveries or innovations, it just means that you can't get energy from dirt.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1821 on: April 26, 2015, 03:09:41 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1822 on: April 26, 2015, 03:26:11 AM »
Clarence flubbed in his discussion of microwave oven power and nobody caught it or said anything.  Not to mention that he didn't give any real numbers to the best of my recollection.

He said something like he "likes 30% power, but doesn't like 100% power because things brown too quickly."

Microwave ovens are duty-cycle based devices.  They are either ON or OFF.  30% power simply means that it is on and cooking 30% of the time.

When it is OFF, there is just the overhead for the electronic controller guts, the light, and the turntable motor.  It might total something between 15 and 25 watts.

When it is ON, you have the overhead, plus the magnetron power.

If the microwave is rated at 700 watts power, only when the cavity has a big wet load, like a chicken, would the magnetron draw around 700 watts.  If there is very little in the oven cavity, then it might only draw 300 or 400 watts.  I am really not sure, these are just guidelines.  The important thing is to develop the _feel_.  I am basing my numbers by feeling/listening to the microwave groan ON and groan OFF while in operation with different loads in the microwave cavity.

If you are going to be a successful and time efficient free energy experimenter, then you have to develop a gut feel for power.  It's a great BS detector also.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1823 on: April 26, 2015, 03:46:15 AM »
And I bet a lot of you that bitch and whine about me actually "secretly" want to read me, perhaps some of you are even serious and avid readers.  Part of that is because a big "let's always agree with each other" club gets boring pretty damn fast.

Endless discussions of the mechanics of how to build a hypothetical Clarence setup with not a single shred of evidence that it even works first is silly, and farking boring.  Not to mention I called you guys out because you were "skipping" trying to probe Clarence about how it actually works first.  And some of you may have been in denial, claiming that you were having a valid productive discussion when you weren't.  What's the point of talking about how to build something when you don't even know how it allegedly works. Some of you may try to claim that you were having a technical discussion with Clarence.  I call bullshit, you were having nothing more than an anecdotal technical discussion with Clarence with only skimpy, vague details. Did any of you ask him where to put a pair of multimeter probes to verify "the effect."  I am willing to bet you the answer is no.  From multiple sources now, including me, you have been told that Clarence is not capable of having a legitimate technical discussion.

When somebody disagrees for a valid reason and starts a real debate, then it gets interesting - admit it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1823 on: April 26, 2015, 03:46:15 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1824 on: April 26, 2015, 04:21:39 AM »
Recent post from Dragon:
Quote
2 Turns, 1/0 gauge, watt meter on the inverter.  Xantrex prowatt SW 600. Lets see, aprox 1 ft of 1/0 on the torroid and 16 ft of 1/0 on the coil form making 8 turns.   400 amp reading on the 1ft 2 turn shorted, With the 8 turn connected to the secondary a 50 amp reading on the wire, 50 amps x 8 turns = 400 Amp/T
 
 I don't understand the trivial questions.... ?

Anybody see a problem with that statement?


Oh, and he's now saying that the capacitor is 50uF not 8uF.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1825 on: April 26, 2015, 05:19:02 AM »
Yes. And you're right about not being able to do it with 8 Watts, I need more than that to get near the 100 and sumpthin amps I got with some 8 mm diameter cable. But 50 amps now that sounds more like it, not so difficult to do. I simply used a variac to run a regular 240 to 12 volt step down transformer with 2 turns of the 8 mm cable but I didn't note the current in the shorted loop in that experiment as the demo I did with some 2 mm auto wire showed the same result but with more heating and input.

I've tested the B&L setup myself with both 240 from the grid and with the step down to a low voltage setup with a grounded neutral after a isolation transformer, and both setups showed nothing not expected by conventional thinking.

As well as that neither arrangement can be used when a properly fitted RCD/GFI is in place. I tripped my inline RCD once then the second time I tripped both my inline RCD and the one on the utility meter board once as well while trying the setup, the second time the house power was interrupted and I upset everyone as they were being programmed by the TV at the time.

So for me it just reeks of stealing power by fooling meter and/or using the high amp reading on the shorted loop to bamboozle people into thinking there is free energy from the setup.

And it is illegal to bypass the RCD in Australia for good reason
Not that I would even consider bypassing the RCD on the utility meter board anyway, that would be silly.

Clarence admitted he charges his battery so it's all done and dusted as I see it. He was misleading people.

He has a good Earth ground stake array now maybe he will use it for a crystal radio or regular radio transmitter/receiver ground one day.

Imagine how hard B&L would be laughing if they knew the trouble Clarence went to on the basis of their bogus claims.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1825 on: April 26, 2015, 05:19:02 AM »
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Offline skribat

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1826 on: April 26, 2015, 09:38:21 AM »
And I bet a lot of you that bitch and whine about me actually "secretly" want to read me, perhaps some of you are even serious and avid readers.  Part of that is because a big "let's always agree with each other" club gets boring pretty damn fast.

Endless discussions of the mechanics of how to build a hypothetical Clarence setup with not a single shred of evidence that it even works first is silly, and farking boring.  Not to mention I called you guys out because you were "skipping" trying to probe Clarence about how it actually works first.  And some of you may have been in denial, claiming that you were having a valid productive discussion when you weren't.  What's the point of talking about how to build something when you don't even know how it allegedly works. Some of you may try to claim that you were having a technical discussion with Clarence.  I call bullshit, you were having nothing more than an anecdotal technical discussion with Clarence with only skimpy, vague details. Did any of you ask him where to put a pair of multimeter probes to verify "the effect."  I am willing to bet you the answer is no.  From multiple sources now, including me, you have been told that Clarence is not capable of having a legitimate technical discussion.

When somebody disagrees for a valid reason and starts a real debate, then it gets interesting - admit it.

----------------------
You really do sound so foolish .. what do you think gives you the right to sit in judgement on others and at the same time be so blind to your own failings ...    as for ' how his device actually works'     .. he did indeed explain how it actually works, just as others have ..maybe that was your 'day off'    in fact the device is actually being analysed and explained in other places by people far more knowledgable than yourself, the conclusion .. that it is perfectly feasable and has been known about for a long time.   It does however cover subject matter about which on your own admission you have little or no knowledge.

As for getting on Clarence's case because in your opinion he doesn't speak your technical language ... the same might apply to Tesla  .. there was not the technical language in his time, no ohms law or multimeter .. and  let's not leave out Tesla's other great failing, his autism. ...   and of course he was a bum living on the streets, he didn't have a pot to P**ss in and he died in poverty.  There have been others like Tesla a more modern equivalent  Dollard,  another incompetent underdog who had everything and threw it all away I suppose ..  he also has spent much of his life not being able to hold a technical discussion with people on your level ..    maybe .. if you spent a little more time away from your cupboard and your keyboard you might be a little more successful in keeping up .. although you have toned down your language a bit you are still bad-mouthing someone because you don't understand what they are doing ..   perhaps you should sit back and reflect on the situation a little more .. you are not god's gift to humanity ..  and putting yourself on a pedestal will not gain you the adoration of the people.  you need to get out a bit and see what's going on.  just because YOU  don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1827 on: April 26, 2015, 10:14:11 AM »
----------------------
You really do sound so foolish .. what do you think gives you the right to sit in judgement on others and at the same time be so blind to your own failings ...    as for ' how his device actually works'     .. he did indeed explain how it actually works, just as others have ..maybe that was your 'day off'    in fact the device is actually being analysed and explained in other places by people far more knowledgable than yourself, the conclusion .. that it is perfectly feasable and has been known about for a long time.   It does however cover subject matter about which on your own admission you have little or no knowledge.

As for getting on Clarence's case because in your opinion he doesn't speak your technical language ... the same might apply to Tesla  .. there was not the technical language in his time, no ohms law or multimeter .. and  let's not leave out Tesla's other great failing, his autism. ...   and of course he was a bum living on the streets, he didn't have a pot to P**ss in and he died in poverty.  There have been others like Tesla a more modern equivalent  Dollard,  another incompetent underdog who had everything and threw it all away I suppose ..  he also has spent much of his life not being able to hold a technical discussion with people on your level ..    maybe .. if you spent a little more time away from your cupboard and your keyboard you might be a little more successful in keeping up .. although you have toned down your language a bit you are still bad-mouthing someone because you don't understand what they are doing ..   perhaps you should sit back and reflect on the situation a little more .. you are not god's gift to humanity ..  and putting yourself on a pedestal will not gain you the adoration of the people.  you need to get out a bit and see what's going on.  just because YOU  don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Skribat:

You really can just kiss my ass with all of your attempts to impugn my character.  I am not perfect but most of what you say is junk and the reason you are stating it is because you are just frustrated that I could pick apart this proposition and also question the motives of the person presenting the proposition.  Most of your technical critiques about me are just gratuitous bullshit.

You are unhappy and despondent because people have a right to express their opinions?  Tough luck for you and try to get rid of the huge chip on your shoulder.  I am trying to do good, stop being blind to that.  Sometimes being good means saying something is crap, deal with it.

If something real comes along believe me I will support it.  I said to you if you believe in this proposition then explain how you think it works and even try to build it yourself.  You clearly have nothing to say or do in that department.

If you want to argue the technical merits or lack of merits of a free energy proposition with me, that's fine.  But I don't want to hear any more of your little-frustrated-dude attack-the-messenger comments.  Talk tech, don't talk about me.

Quote
the conclusion .. that it is perfectly feasable and has been known about for a long time.

You are totally FOS in your statement above.  Prove me wrong and give us credible links or apologize for being a bald-faced liar.

MileHigh

Offline ramset

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1828 on: April 26, 2015, 03:38:12 PM »
It is true that this is being investigated at a much higher level than this prestigious establishment.
It is also true that MH has Done absolutely No experiments here and has no knowledge whatsoever of what would or would not cause energy to inter from a ground array [outside of normal trickery].

perhaps this will be the example which will be "sited" in the near future  ,one thing is certain
there is a TREMENDOUS amount of potential energy beneath our feet.

have Tariel . B+L, Clarence or others figured a simple method to put it to work at little or no cost ??

Who Knows ..of one thing I am certain MH
you certainly don't .
And I am also of the opinion that it would probably look ridiculous to the text book when it does happen.[or it would have happened already]

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1829 on: April 26, 2015, 03:55:41 PM »
Quote from: skribat
...he doesn't speak your technical language ... the same might apply to Tesla  .. there was not the technical language in his time, no ohms law or multimeter .. and  let's not leave out Tesla's other great failing, his autism. ...   and of course he was a bum living on the streets, he didn't have a pot to P**ss in and he died in poverty.

skribat needs to work a little harder to get his facts straight.

Nikola Tesla was born on 10 July 1856 and died on 7 January 1943.

Ohm's Law:
Quote
In the 1850s, Ohm's law was known as such and was widely considered proved, and alternatives, such as "Barlow's law", were discredited, in terms of real applications to telegraph system design, as discussed by Samuel F. B. Morse in 1855.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law#History

Multimeters:
Quote
The first moving-pointer current-detecting device was the galvanometer in 1820. These were used to measure resistance and voltage by using a Wheatstone bridge, and comparing the unknown quantity to a reference voltage or resistance. While useful in the lab, the devices were very slow and impractical in the field. These galvanometers were bulky and delicate. The D'Arsonval/Weston meter movement used a fine metal spring to give proportional measurement rather than just detection, and built-in permanent field magnets made deflection independent of the orientation of the meter. Instead of balancing a bridge, values could be directly read off the instruments's scale, which made measurement quick and easy. By adding a series or shunt resistor, more than one range of voltage or current could be measured with one movement.
Multimeters were invented in the early 1920s as radio receivers and other vacuum tube electronic devices became more common. The invention of the first multimeter is attributed to British Post Office engineer, Donald Macadie, who became dissatisfied with having to carry many separate instruments required for the maintenance of the telecommunications circuits.[1] Macadie invented an instrument which could measure amperes (amps), volts and ohms, so the multifunctional meter was then named Avometer.[2] The meter comprised a moving coil meter, voltage and precision resistors, and switches and sockets to select the range.
Macadie took his idea to the Automatic Coil Winder and Electrical Equipment Company (ACWEEC, founded in ~1923).[2] The first AVO was put on sale in 1923, and many of its features remained almost unaltered through to the last Model 8.
Pocket watch style meters were in widespread use in the 1920s, at much lower cost than Avometers. The metal case was normally connected to the negative connection, an arrangement that caused numerous electric shocks. The technical specifications of these devices were often crude, for example the one illustrated has a resistance of just 33 ohms per volt, a non-linear scale and no zero adjustment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter#History


Tesla never lived on the street and was not autistic.

Quote
Starting in 1934, the Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Company began paying Tesla $125 per month as well as paying his rent at the Hotel New Yorker, expenses the Company would pay for the rest of Tesla's life.
...................
On 7 January 1943, Tesla, 86, died alone in room 3327 of the New Yorker Hotel. His body was later found by maid Alice Monaghan after she had entered Tesla's room, ignoring the "do not disturb" sign that Tesla had placed on his door two days earlier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Later_years_.281918.E2.80.931943.29

125 dollars in 1934 is the equivalent of at least ten times that in today's dollars, and that is not including the rent on the hotel room in a pretty fancy hotel.


If such easily checkable FACTS are gotten so wrong by posters here, what are we to conclude about statements that aren't easily checked? Especially when so many similar reports have turned out to be utter fabrications? I know the answer to that.... and so do you.

 

OneLink